Mongeese?

[Zovo]

Re: Mongeese?

So Susiemisajon, I hope you see how you totally missed the point of this thread. It is political. Its about the superior Zovos of the world trying to help us ignorant dolts out of our hopeless states of mind.

Yup, that was exactly my goal. I can't dupe you.

Have you heard of Nutria? Andrew Zimmern's Bizarre Foods (Travel Channel) did a segment on this large backwater rodent pest, which is under aggressive eradication programs in Louisiana and Maryland.

Where I come from on the mainland there have begun to be significant nutria problems. I guess in Russia the Nutria are made into cheap versions of those big furry hats (whch are normally made of Mink or something). Anyhow, they've begun trying to get rid of the Nutria too; by trying to establish Nutria hunting and whatnot. Finding a use for the creature (ie: food) as a means of culling a population is totally fine by me. But just killing and dispossing of bodies seems wasteful; I suppose there is always the fertilizer alternative.

Anyhow, of done some more research into the health hazards of a dense mongoose population and am a little less concerned for the health of the critters. Though I do still wish there could be something more productive done with them; aw well, look the other way I suppose.

Probbaly don't see this on the internet very often. . . someone willing to admit they were wrong. Thanks for pointing me in the right direction Pesh.

[Pomai]

Re: Mongeese?

Have you heard of Nutria? Andrew Zimmern's Bizarre Foods (Travel Channel) did a segment on this large backwater rodent pest, which is under aggressive eradication programs in Louisiana and Maryland.

Entrepreneurs tried to market Nutria meat commercially, with little success. Yet leave it to Andrew to find someone who ate them so he could try it. Not surprisingly, he said it tasted like a "gamey" rabbit/chicken. One preparation was "Nutria Stew" and the other was deep-fried.

"I'll have the Mongoose Ratatouille."

[cezanne]

Re: Mongeese?

Mongeese. Mongooses? Mongi?

What's good for the mongoose is good for the mongander.

[1stwahine]

Re: Mongeese?

I hate Mongeese!

Kill um ALL!

Auntie Pupule

Re: Mongeese?

Just popping in to check if this thread is still political or if some recipes for the critters have been posted....oh, well.

Gee, I can't believe someone as intelligent as you think you are missed it. It’s so obvious. This was a "political" thread from first post. I responded precisely because I smelled something funny about the need make a public post for "help" to try to achieve a pacifist victory over an animal that Zovo knows most on this board will view at worst as a pest or at least irrelevant.

People like Zovo make this type of post for their own satisfaction. Its a way of proclaiming to the world that they are soooo intelligent and sooo advanced and sooo loving, that they spend their energy protecting the things that all you ignorant, foolish, brutes of the world are too simple minded to appreciate. Very French, wouldn't you say?

If Zovo and his mongoose hugging wife really wanted to do something, they could privately call the humane society or animal control or hire pest control businesses for ideas. But no, they needed to make sure you (and mostly they) are publicly informed that they are the Ghandi's to the Mongoose. So caring. So loving. So in touch with nature. So much more than all of you could ever hope to be.

I am all for protecting the animals that need protecting. But some animals in Hawaii do not need protection. They need eradication.

So Susiemisajon, I hope you see how you totally missed the point of this thread. It is political. Its about the superior Zovos of the world trying to help us ignorant dolts out of our hopeless states of mind.

Lets protect the Opihi, nearly all our Hawaiian reef fish, our Hawaiian Birds. Lets protect our whale visitors. But Mongoose? Let India protect them.

[SusieMisajon]

Re: Mongeese?

Just popping in to check if this thread is still political or if some recipes for the critters have been posted....oh, well.

[Zovo]

Re: Mongeese?

I completely understand. This is the response religious liberals give when actually questioned directly.

Keep on protecting those mongoosies. They need you.

And that's the reply of a man who has no interest in reality beyond his own very narrow point of view. It's ok, it's safer with your head n the sand.

though, the comparison of me to a "religious liberal" is nothing short of hillarious. Keep em coming.

. . .but the mongoose looks to have a decent pelt. The tails would make for some pretty porky roach drops of braid drops.

Does Hawaii let folks get trapping/skinning licenses? I wonder how much of a hassle it'd be for someone to set up something say with 'Crazy Crow' or 'Moscow Hide and Fur'?

See, now that's a completely different issue. It's one thing to kill an animal and at least do something productive with the remains. But just killing them and tossing them out seems pointless. Though I honestly wasn't aware of the health issues and that is a compelling argument for the removal, or at least culling of the population.

[Peshkwe]

Re: Mongeese?

Yanno..I'm surprised no one has figured out a way to make some cash off the things being they're considered a pest and disease carrier.

http://www.instanthawaii.com/cgi-bin...imals.mongoose

To top it off, male mongooses can father offspring in as little as 4 months after birth - with the female producing a normal litter of 2 to 5 pups per year. Though cute and playful, these pups will soon be parenting more and more mongoose.

Additionally, both rats and mongooses carry leptospirosis which their droppings transfer to our streams and water supplies, so not only are these creatures destroying native birds, they also threaten human habitats (and is one good reason not to swim in Hawai'i streams and ponds).

A rat isn't all that pretty, but the mongoose looks to have a decent pelt. The tails would make for some pretty porky roach drops of braid drops.

Does Hawaii let folks get trapping/skinning licenses? I wonder how much of a hassle it'd be for someone to set up something say with 'Crazy Crow' or 'Moscow Hide and Fur'?

[Menehune Man]

Re: Mongeese?

Now, now...

Though I'm an amateur in many fields, you'll see me out standing in one occasionally. HaHa!

I really do think that some small creatures have begun here in Hawaii.
Supposed to be very many extinctions going on, as I type.
So the one's that know say? You know.

Other plant/animal life has arrived over the years through non-human intervention. Or outright by people, accidentally or not.

I subscribe to the idea that...
"What is, is."

So if a group of people wish to champion a cause and I like it too,
then I'll lend a hand. Though I believe usually it just slows down whatever the situation is.

Any one hear of "Miconia"?
It's here, it's aggressive, people are yanking it out, and it's winning.

Re: Mongeese?

If you wish to see the flaws in ALL of your logic I'd be happy to post it upon polite request. But unless I get the impression that you're actually intent upon considerin what I've written, I'll not waste time with you.

I completely understand. This is the response religious liberals give when actually questioned directly.

Keep on protecting those mongoosies. They need you.

[Zovo]

Re: Mongeese?

If you wish to see the flaws in ALL of your logic I'd be happy to post it upon polite request. But unless I get the impression that you're actually intent upon considerin what I've written, I'll not waste time with you.

Re: Mongeese?

Okay, Thanksgiving pau. Now we can get back to healthy debate.

Zovo,

This shows your ignorance of the science you claim to understand.

Right. . . speaking of as a member of the species which is contributing to the greatest quantity of animal extinctions world-wide, homosapiens (I assume you're human), you certainly have room to call the kettle black now don't you.

My biology teacher, who I think was a radical liberal, taught me that 99.9% of all species to ever inhabit the Earth are extinct. Not because of the evil homosapiens that those on the left always define as bad. I don't know if that is true but it’s a "fact" used by the same scientists who say life started in Africa and moved outward.


This statement shows your bias against humans. :

As for the destruction of native species; yes, it's a bummer. No one likes to see animals go extinct; but that’s natures way.

Well, my NATURE tells me that these oversized rats should all be killed for invading my territory. Am I a part of nature? Can I be territorial in my actions? Or is it only the non-human creatures that have a right to make territorial decisions? I know your answer. Humans bad (except for you of course) and all other animals good.

This statement shows your egocentric assumption that what you have learned as theory is now a irrefutable fact;

Like I said before, it's a chain of volcanic islands. Nothing originated here (genetically), everything (terrestrial) on the islands had to come here from somewhere else and evolve over time into what it is now.

Who are you to state so conclusively that all life had to come from somewhere on Earth other than Hawaii? Who proved that? I never saw the conclusive evidence. Obviously life forms have evolved and changed locales along the way but I wouldn’t purport to KNOW that life did NOT originate in Hawaii. Who’s proving the negative? If life could originate in Africa, why not Hawaii? They are both on the same planet? I know, it wasn’t in your textbook, right?

Another line showing your anti-human bias;

If that were the case they'd have all fled the island already, since being anywhere around humans = death trap.

I can't prove this but with the billions of billions of animals on this planet living in their own lawless worlds, I would make a serious wager that 99.9???% of all deaths in the wild are perpetrated by animals killing animals, NOT by humans. In fact, Humans are the only species that I know of who actually made conscious decisions to save animals from extinction and succeeded. Is that "natural".

[Zovo]

Re: Mongeese?

1) I think they would learn to stay away?

2) Haven't seen any other serious suggestions.

3) Not all scientists would agree.
Here's a link to 'Opae fresh water shrimp. Did they evolve here or brought? Hmmm...
http://hbs.bishopmuseum.org/good-bad/opae.html

Good luck with your mongeese!

1. Animals don't learn from dead animals; esspecially dead animals who's corpses are removed. If that were the case they'd have all fled the island already, since being anywhere around humans = death trap. Animals learn from survivors. Instinct isn't passed down by those who are killed; it's passed on by those who live long enough to procreate.

2. Yes; and perhaps there is no better suggestion, that's why I asked.

3. I believe I specified "terrestrial" as in "land-based." A shrimp would hardly qualify. Of course a species could evolve here (hence the jays) my point is, no terrestrial genetic lineages could originate in Hawaii unless they were once confined to the sea and crawled out of the ocean. Of course, that too would make them immigrants.

Interesting website though, thank you.

[Menehune Man]

Re: Mongeese?

1)Actually, it seems like a pretty pointless act. Killing a couple of mongoose isn't going to solve the problem, all it's going to do is make room for more mongoose to move in.
2)So, this being the case, doesn't it just make more sense to find a way to dissuade the creatures from getting into the vehicles rather than just killing them?
3)Like I said before, it's a chain of volcanic islands. Nothing originated here (genetically), everything (terrestrial) on the islands had to come here from somewhere else and evolve over time into what it is now.

1) I think they would learn to stay away?

2) Haven't seen any other serious suggestions.

3) Not all scientists would agree.
Here's a link to 'Opae fresh water shrimp. Did they evolve here or brought? Hmmm...
http://hbs.bishopmuseum.org/good-bad/opae.html

Good luck with your mongeese!

[Zovo]

Re: Mongeese?

Actually, it seems like a pretty pointless act. Killing a couple of mongoose isn't going to solve the problem, all it's going to do is make room for more mongoose to move in.

Additionally (this is an update) a cat was caught in one of the traps the other day and everyone freaked out and had to make sure the cat got out safely and wasn't hurt and whatnot. Now doesn't it seem counter productive to trap and dispose of ne pest while coddling another one? No one took the cat home, it was feral, and last I checked cats have the same tendency to crawl up in car engines and kill birds that mongoose do.

So, this being the case, doesn't it just make more sense to find a way to dissuade the creatures from getting into the vehicles rather than just killing them?

I'm not a "mongoose hugger" as it was so eloquently put, but I don't see the point in frivolously killing anything. I even catch and release the few cockroaches I find in my house. I think "The Jungle Book" put it best; "Kill only to eat or to avoid being eaten."

As for the destruction of native species; yes, it's a bummer. No one likes to see animals go extinct; but that natures way. Mongoose (or any other invasive species) arriving here as a result of human action is really no different than an invasive species arriving in a more metaphysically natural way (ie: hitch a ride of floating debris, a parsite carried by a migrating bird, etc). Animal species spread or they die. You can't really blame them for doing exactly what they are programmed to do; survive. I'm sure these native birds or turtles would do the same if they were put in similar circumstances.

For that matter, what constitutes a native species anyhow? A species that was here before the Europeans showed up? I'm not being critical or difficult, I'm actually curious. The reason I ask is because look around, look at all the little Jay Birds all over the place. Jay birds aren't native to the island, but since their arrival these birds have "speciated" (multiple times) meaning they are no longer the same species which arrived originally. Doesn't that technically make them a "native species," since they originated here and exist as such no where else on Earth? Or are they pests as well because they interfere with the NATIVE native species?

Like I said before, it's a chain of volcanic islands. Nothing originated here (genetically), everything (terrestrial) on the islands had to come here from somewhere else and evolve over time into what it is now.

So many creatures (insects, animals "all kinds", plants, fish, etc,) have accidentally and on purpose been brought to Hawaii.
So now they live here too!

Exactly. So what gives one species priority over others? Tenure? If something showed up (completely by accident) and started killing all the wild pigs (butwas otherwise harmless); would we be alright with it because pigs aren't native to the island and they destroy native foliage by digging out and eating the roots? Or would there be a public uproar to eradicate the new species beause we like to eat pigs?