Alerts...Warnings...Close to home

[pzarquon]

Re: Alerts...Warnings...Close to home

What a needless, horrible death that young man experienced. The news report I heard this evening mentioned "alcoholic liver disease was a contributing cause of death.". Whether it's true or not, it sounds like there's a concerted effort to divert blame away from the contaminated water. A cheap shot in my book.

Are you kidding? I think the family is seizing the spotlight with both hands, and the media is glad to comply. There's obviously going to be a lawsuit, and more than enough blame to go around. I happen to think not all of it falls on the government (in this case, not in the sewage spill overall).

All the facts are not in, in this case, and obviously if there was a scuffle, there's a party out there that's directly responsible. But it's been no secret to anyone here that our waterways -- particularly that waterway -- isn't safe. (I can't remember, as you mention, a time when it was.) Definitely something to avoid. Even people who used the Ala Wai on its good days knew to wash off thoroughly. The victim lived on the Ala Wai, and was no stranger to its condition. In addition to choices that may have led to the victim being in the polluted water, there were a lot of choices made afterward... from seeking medical care to disclosing possible infection sources.

It's a tragic loss of life, and the city and state will have to answer for the condition of the Ala Wai and our oceans. But mentioning other relevant circumstances in covering this story isn't a "cheap shot." Not unless reporting Renee Champ's pregnancy and inebriation was a "cheap shot" as well.

[tutusue]

Re: Alerts...Warnings...Close to home

[...]It's a tragic loss of life, and the city and state will have to answer for the condition of the Ala Wai and our oceans. But mentioning other relevant circumstances in covering this story isn't a "cheap shot." Not unless reporting Renee Champ's pregnancy and inebriation was a "cheap shot" as well.

I hear what you're saying, PZ, I really do but the grieving family was still in town and, well, I guess my reaction is just the 'mom' in me. To me, the Champ and the Johnson deaths are apples and oranges. Both tragic; both needless, but apples and oranges nonetheless. May not be to you and I respect that. Had Johnson gotten behind the wheel of a car in his condition with resultant deaths I most likely would feel different. It will be interesting to see how the homicide investigation plays out.

[Miulang]

Re: Alerts...Warnings...Close to home

What was kinda weird was I first read that homicide detectives were investigating the incident of the guy falling into the Ala Wai BEFORE I saw anything about the fact that he had succumbed to necrotizing fasciitis. The Ala Wai has been polluted for years...even before the sewage spill.

And now they're saying the beaches all over Oahu (like around Waimanalo) are also polluted by the runoffs and smaller sewage spills. Some experts on Maui are saying that the sewage system on Maui is also a disaster waiting to happen. Again, the population growth of the 'aina is outstripping the capacity of the infrastructure that wasn't built to support the greater numbers of people who live in Hawai'i now.

And unless something is done to mitigate the future possibility of such sewage spillls, methinks the tourist industry (and the locals who work in the industry) are going to suffer because of it. And there are enough tourists who apparently don't know how to read signs in English and Japanese warning them about the possible effects of swimming in polluted water that some tourists who get sick because of it will try to sue the State and claim that the State did nothing to prevent the water from getting polluted, even though the State has posted warning signs.

Miulang

[1stwahine]

Re: Alerts...Warnings...Close to home

and somebody in govt. when give the the go ahead to remove signs that it was ok to go into the water in Waikiki fronting the Hotels. When we ALL know that the water is still full of Opala and whatnots!

Moa sue jobs are forth coming. Juss watch. Garrans.

Auntie Lynn

[Miulang]

Re: Alerts...Warnings...Close to home

Well, the EPA says that the City and County of Honolulu is officially responsible for the sewage spill into the Ala Wai and the resulting pollution to the beaches in Waikiki. So I guess that means Mufi's on the hook for any lawsuits that might be filed by people who get sick from the bacterial infection while swimming/surfing in that water. Hoooo baby. This is going to start being really interesting now!

Miulang

[kimo55]

Re: Alerts...Warnings...Close to home

When we ALL know that the water is still full of Opala and whatnots!

yea, and how bout da sand?!
no one evah wen tess da buggah if pono or not

[tutusue]

Re: Alerts...Warnings...Close to home

yea, and how bout da sand?!
no one evah wen tess da buggah if pono or not

Wet sand is a problem. It was mentioned in conjunction with Waikiki sand replenishment on the news the other night (last night?). Wish I had time to google it, but I don't. Sorry!

[Miulang]

Re: Alerts...Warnings...Close to home

You mean this story? As long as da sand doesn't come from Maui, ainokea where they get it from!

Miulang

[pzarquon]

Re: Alerts...Warnings...Close to home

To me, the Champ and the Johnson deaths are apples and oranges. Both tragic; both needless, but apples and oranges nonetheless. May not be to you and I respect that.

Well, wait a minute. I agree that the Champ and Johnson cases are very, very different. Very tragic, absolutely. As I said, we don't know the full story behind Johnson's situation as to how he ended up in the water, and he could be the completely innocent victim of an attack of some kind (although I think how things went after the tumble were not insignificant, extenuating circumstances). The poor choice Champ made, by contrast, are pretty clear.

Where I'm guessing we disagree is your assertion that reporting the results of Johnson's autopsy was a "cheap shot." C'mon. It's a high profile death. The medical examiner reports that (1.) he died of organ failure due to septic shock caused by a bacterial infection, and that (2.) chronic alcoholic liver disease contributed to his death as it had weakened his system.

How is reporting the second point a "cheap shot"? It's a fact in the case, a relevant one in my book, and omitting it would bother me more than including it. Any implications or judgements are the readers to make.

[damontucker]

Re: Alerts...Warnings...Close to home

Well, wait a minute. I agree that the Champ and Johnson cases are very, very different. Very tragic, absolutely. As I said, we don't know the full story behind Johnson's situation as to how he ended up in the water, and he could be the completely innocent victim of an attack of some kind (although I think how things went after the tumble were not insignificant, extenuating circumstances). The poor choice Champ made, by contrast, are pretty clear.

Where I'm guessing we disagree is your assertion that reporting the results of Johnson's autopsy was a "cheap shot." C'mon. It's a high profile death. The medical examiner reports that (1.) he died of organ failure due to septic shock caused by a bacterial infection, and that (2.) chronic alcoholic liver disease contributed to his death as it had weakened his system.

How is reporting the second point a "cheap shot"? It's a fact in the case, a relevant one in my book, and omitting it would bother me more than including it. Any implications or judgements are the readers to make.

Ok..

While they may have pointed out some facts about him after the fact...

They could have just said he had "liver" complications...and left it at that...

What I think Tutu was referring to was the "Alcoholic" part of it.

I did hear the report and I'm not sure how they reported it...

however Tutu is threading the following. "The news report I heard this evening mentioned "alcoholic liver disease was a contributing cause of death."

If they used the word Alcholic...then they are implying something upon a person...

However, if the news used the term "Alcohol related liver disease" then I think it would have less personalized it.

However, if the news did say alcohol(ic) related liver disease...then that's pretty much labeling him an "alky" (sp?) and I don't know how name calling would relate to the case so much.

I haven't read to much on it... However, it seems the circumstances of his fall and the aftermath of what he told the doctors and didn't tell the doctors lead me to think that not everything is out there yet. (why wouldn't he at least report to the doctors that someone had pushed him in the water...etc...? what are the circumstances leading up to being pushed in the water... Maybe someone was defending themselves when the victim was pushed in the water...etc)

until all circumstances are out...if the news uses the term "alcoholic liver related disease... instead of the term "alcohol related liver disease" then I think the News kind of stepped over the boundary and labeled someone an alcoholic before all the facts are out.

[tutusue]

Re: Alerts...Warnings...Close to home

Well, wait a minute. I agree that the Champ and Johnson cases are very, very different. Very tragic, absolutely. As I said, we don't know the full story behind Johnson's situation as to how he ended up in the water, and he could be the completely innocent victim of an attack of some kind (although I think how things went after the tumble were not insignificant, extenuating circumstances). The poor choice Champ made, by contrast, are pretty clear.

Where I'm guessing we disagree is your assertion that reporting the results of Johnson's autopsy was a "cheap shot." C'mon. It's a high profile death. The medical examiner reports that (1.) he died of organ failure due to septic shock caused by a bacterial infection, and that (2.) chronic alcoholic liver disease contributed to his death as it had weakened his system.

How is reporting the second point a "cheap shot"? It's a fact in the case, a relevant one in my book, and omitting it would bother me more than including it. Any implications or judgements are the readers to make.

As I mentioned earlier...it's probably the mom in me that considers it a cheap shot...actually, the timing of it bothered me the most. I'd make a terrible journalist 'cuz I'd never be able to separate my personal feelings from my professional duties. But, since I'm not a journalist...I relate more to Johnson's mother than I do to how relevant this fact is at this time. I was very close to a very high profile case about 10 years ago. I'll never, ever forget holding the devastated mother in my arms as she was sobbing and shaking every time a new 'rumor' or 'fact' was reported so soon after the incident. I saw first hand what that kind of reporting can do. I understand it's the job of journalism to report the facts (and sometimes the rumors!) but that doesn't mean I have to like it.

[MadAzza]

Re: Alerts...Warnings...Close to home

until all circumstances are out...if the news uses the term "alcoholic liver related disease... instead of the term "alcohol related liver disease" then I think the News kind of stepped over the boundary and labeled someone an alcoholic before all the facts are out.

It has nothing to do with what term "the news uses." The medical examiner's report indicated that alcoholic liver disease was a factor in the poor guy's death.

Alcoholic liver disease is not a value judgment, it is a medical diagnosis, as is heart disease, kidney disease or any other syndrome.

From Medline:
"Alcoholic liver disease involves an acute or chronic inflammation of the liver induced by alcohol abuse."

[tutusue]

Re: Alerts...Warnings...Close to home

You mean this story? As long as da sand doesn't come from Maui, ainokea where they get it from!

Miulang

Yep! That's the story.

[zztype]

Re: Alerts...Warnings...Close to home

From the SB story:

"Autopsy results show that Johnson, who was taken to the hospital Sunday, died of "multi-system organ failure" caused by an infection of the blood -- septic shock -- due to a vibrio vulnificus bacterial infection of his foot injuries, according to the Honolulu Medical Examiner's Office. Alcoholic liver disease also contributed to his death, it said."

http://starbulletin.com/2006/04/08/news/story03.html

That is what the medical examiner's office said in its autopsy report. Basically, those folks are just telling it like it is. The guy's liver didn't shut down because of the other infections. The liver was already "shot" is what they're saying.

[Miulang]

Re: Alerts...Warnings...Close to home

Yeah, but I also think if he hadn't gotten that vibrio in his foot, he probably would have lived to be 40 or 50 and died from cirhosis of the liver instead of the way he died last week. I used to work in a hospital and have always said that one of the most painful ways of dying I ever witnessed is from cirhosis of the liver (the other way is from chronic obstructive pulmonary disease, where you literally suffocate on your own secretions). The cause of death was multisystem organ failure, which means more than his liver shut down.

Miulang