Cultural Indentity

[PoiBoy]

I know it's been beat to death....but I didn't want to clutter up another thread. I figure I would offer an indigenous perspective.

You may not be talking to me directly or know me directly but your earlier posts tend to generalize groups....Asians, Filipinos, Whites.....about how they lack cultural identity. And since your posts are not private posts, you can be sure the HT community may see it as you addressing everyone.

I apologize if it seemed as though I generalized all asians, filipinos, and whites....it was not my intentions to do so. I got alot of love for my filipino and white friends. My point was to be proud of who you are. We all have a beautiful culture of our own that we can be proud of. My comments where for those you pretend to be hawaiian/kanaka maoli..but are not. In my opinion...that shows lack of cultural identity. Many Polynesian's themselves struggle with "cultural indentity" ...in the age of colonialism and globalization, it has become all to common.

And how far back a step do you want to take? Because if you go back far enough, the origins of Samoans can be traced back to Southeast Asia which would make you Asian.

I never thought of "asian" as a people or culture. Thought of it more of a colonial term. Asia is probably thee most diverse continent there is. It would be wrong to catagorize the many people and cultures that inhabit that continent.
"Polynesian" origins?
Yah...we know our geneology. I can trace my geneology all over "polynesia"...from the Ali'i in Samoa..to Tahiti..to Hawai'i...to Aotearoa.
With thousands of years of isolation...Polynesians evolved into our own....we no longer belong to the tribes of Formosa in s.e.a. Culturally, physically, and genetically Polynesians are unique.
"Polynesia"
I don't really like the term "polynesia"...or any other colonial word that catagorizes and fails to acknowledge the uniqueness of every culture or tribe. But with the inter-island connections that went on for so long and similarities in culture, language, beliefs, and blood... it does give us and our past(that we acknowledge) a sense of unity. I like sa'moana.

I enjoy discussions like this

Much aloha to you Joshuatree.

[PoiBoy]

Re: Cultural Indentity

This was not written by me.

hapahawaii-

In Aotearoa/New Zealand, what does it really mean to be Maori, by people of Maori ancestry? In Hawai'i, we are categorized by blood quantum, which began in 1920, when Prince Kuhio attempted to place Hawaiians back on the land through the Hawaiian Homes Commission Act. In the Prince's view, people of Hawaiian ancestry, regardless of blood quantum, whether piha koko (full blood), or hapa (part, portion) which ranged all the way to 1/32nd part Hawaiian ancestry, were to be covered under this Act. However, the racist concept adhered to by the American Government and culture, made the limit of no less than 50% Hawaiian ancestry. This view, and hope, was that since most Hawaiians died off, especially those of most Hawaiian blood, who had no immunity to foreign diseases, and those that remained, intermarried with non-Hawaiians, would dilute the "blood". Then Hawaiians would eventually dilute themselves into non-existence, as the part-Hawaiian population grew, and Hawaiian lands would fall into non-Hawaiian hands. I read the articles "Average Maori at least 43pc Pakeha" and "Full Blooded Challenge to Don Brash-Mangu Awarau (Patrick Flonce Rivers)". Today, we are divided into the following categories-"people who trace their ancestry back to before Captain Cook precontact 1778", where "native Hawaiian" are those of at least 50% blood quantum and "Native Hawaiian", those less than 50% Hawaiian blood quantum. At the same time, non-Hawaiians are calling themselves or representing themselves as "Hawaiian", some going so far as to fraudulently place "Hawaiian" on birth certificates. Those of us of Hawaiian ancestry, koko (blood), mo'o kupuna (geneaogy) have to prove our Hawaiian ancestry through birth certificate evidence that must go back generations to show our Hawaiian ancestry comes from our grandparents, great grandparetns and great great grandparents. Are there people in New Zealand who try to pass themselves off as Maori or go so far as to create a fraudulant birth certificate trail of Maori ancestry? There is so much at stake in Hawai'i that being of Hawaiian ancestry confers, ethnic and cultural rights, traditional customs, and especially the ali'i trusts, many of which were created before the Hawaiian Islands were stolen. Today, even Hawaiian ethnocultural identity itself is under attack, as what remains for those of us whose ties to Hawai'i goes back to the beginning of time when Polynesians discovered and created Hawai'i have to continue to fight for our ancestry, kupuna and heritage. For me, being Hawaiian is having the ancestry, blood, genealogy that is conferred upon us through direct threads from the indigenous Polynesian people of the Hawaiian Islands, coupled with the identity, ethnically and culturally, with those kupuna (ancestors, elders). It is not about race, skincolor, blood quantum or what one "looks like", it is about what you are.
Me ke aloha pumehana.

[Marco]

Re: Cultural Indentity

[snip]....My comments where for those you pretend to be hawaiian/kanaka maoli..but are not....

I'm a little confused at what you mean by that. Are you literally saying that there are people who claim to be Kanaka Maoli when they're not? Like actually outright lying when people ask them what they are? Or do you mean it like those who try talk pidgin, or something else entirely?

I'm part Dutch/Italian/Korean, and am proud of every bit of my heritage. I'm also proud of being from da 'aina and will say so when I'm on the mainland and asked that question. Am I supposed to make a clear distinction and say that I'm from Hawaii but am not Hawaiian everytime I'm on the mainland and someone asks me where I'm from?

I'm honestly curious about this. I don't know a single person who's tried to pass themself off as polynesian when they're not, and don't really see why they would do so in the first place.

Edited to add: Shoots, I didn't see your second post. I guess you really do mean people trying to pass themselves off as Hawaiian. I don't get it. Why would anyone do that (aside from potential tax benefits)?

[pzarquon]

Re: Cultural Indentity

I guess you really do mean people trying to pass themselves off as Hawaiian. I don't get it. Why would anyone do that (aside from potential tax benefits)?

Because it's cool. Being any sort of minority is cool. Hawaiian, moreso. But it's only cool if you can enforce a degree of exclusivity. It won't do to have all those diluted 1/64th folks waving the banner, you know!

Of course, that's created a whole cottage industry in vigilante geekery with people listing "Hawaiian" as their ethnicity getting called out for not "proving" their heritage. This also extends, of course, to the whole debate over the meaning of the word hapa, a topic around which we've gone in circles more than a few times before.

I don't feel particularly compelled to "prove" anything to others, as for the most part it only matters to me, anyway. (When you talk about reaping benefits, I imagine the scenario changes.) Hawaiians originated elsewhere... and, go far back enough, we're all descendent of pond slime. So, we're all family. A dysfunctional, slimy family.

[Hi Tone]

Re: Cultural Indentity

can I ask you how old you poiboy

[kimo55]

Re: Cultural Indentity

I am particularly tickled by the concept "Hawaiian-At-Heart".

ok. so, the heart pushes the blood around, and you have no Hawaiian blood, but your heart is Hawaiian. hmmmm...

[PoiBoy]

Re: Cultural Indentity

Hawaiians originated elsewhere... and, go far back enough, we're all descendent of pond slime. So, we're all family. A dysfunctional, slimy family.

I don't believe in this whole "we're all family" concept. It's often used by people who lack their own individual/cultural identity. They use this concept to justify the indigenous rape and theft of culture. The main advocates of "we're all family" are colonizers. The people who expect the world to conform to their ideals, their way of thinking, their god, and their government. Then they take what they need and exploit it. Colonizers fail to acknowledge any different perspective of life and culture other than their own.

Can I borrow your car brother pzarquon? I didn't think so. You no my family.

But yes..on a deeper level we are all connected. But you still no my family

hapa- who cares about the linguistic interpretation of the word. You're either Kanaka Maoli or your not. It doesn't matter if you have 1/100 koko Kanaka Maoli....if you choose to acknowledge that you are Kanaka Maoli...then you are. If you have the koko then you have the right.

[PoiBoy]

Re: Cultural Indentity

I am particularly tickled by the concept "Hawaiian-At-Heart".

ok. so, the heart pushes the blood around, and you have no Hawaiian blood, but your heart is Hawaiian. hmmmm...

That one tickles me too.

Often what is associated with "Hawaiian culture today" is a touristic version. Very few people understand the old ways of Kanaka Maoli. So their "hawaiian-at-heart" carries no weight and no koko.

But, I believe that a "no koko" could be adopted into an iwi/hapu. Today "no koko" who offer great service in Samoa are given titles and excepted as equals or even chiefs in the Samoan community. In Aotearoa I believe you can marry into a tribe and become an equal member of that tribe but you must embrace the culture and tikanga. And raise your kids the iwi way.
This does not give them blood but they become members of that tribe or family...which means more than blood.

I do not speak for kanaka maoli...but I believe it is possible if you marry into koko and have kids and embrace that culture to the fullest and raise your kids in the culture. Then you can become "******** at heart" Either way you will always be ohana. And that matters more anything.

With adoption also...I know no koko who was adopted by a Samoan family and raised in the Samoan culture and that family views him as Samoan.

So exceptions are made...
Geneology is not the sole determiner in who you are. But respect must be made to the indigenous Kanaka Maoli. People who have no Kanaka Maoli koko have no right to call themselves Kanaka Maoli.

Of course...some will take this and run with it.

[sinjin]

Re: Cultural Indentity

I don't believe in this whole "we're all family" concept. It's often used by people who lack their own individual/cultural identity. They use this concept to justify the indigenous rape and theft of culture. The main advocates of "we're all family" are colonizers. The people who expect the world to conform to their ideals, their way of thinking, their god, and their government. Then they take what they need and exploit it. Colonizers fail to acknowledge any different perspective of life and culture other than their own.

I'm not sure I agree with the idea that someone can lack a cultural identitiy. If you're referring to those of a mixed European background like many Americans I would say that is one definition of "American". The question becomes can you tell a colonizer just by looking at them? If not, what to do?

I has been my experience that not everyone that looks unlike you is your enemy any more than anyone who resembles you must be a friend.

[Pua'i Mana'o]

Re: Cultural Indentity

Only one of my piko requires koko; it connected me to my mother's womb and to all of my ancestors, down to the land under my feet. One of my piko is my ability to mahalo and requires na'auao. It is sustained by ke aloha Akua. And my third piko is about the choices I make, from now until I make (love typing out this sentence). That defines the strength of my character, as a makua, as a wahine, as a kanaka.

PB, pull from your mauli, not from a western-concocted paradigm (you know, the type that uses words like indigenous, colonialism, and paradigm).

[PoiBoy]

Re: Cultural Indentity

[QUOTE=sinjin;127245]

I'm not sure I agree with the idea that someone can lack a cultural identitiy. If you're referring to those of a mixed European background like many Americans I would say that is one definition of "American". The question becomes can you tell a colonizer just by looking at them? If not, what to do?

American culture is built on capitalism and exploitation. Culture cannot be bought or sold.

I has been my experience that not everyone that looks unlike you is your enemy any more than anyone who resembles you must be a friend.

I agree.

[sinjin]

Re: Cultural Indentity

[QUOTE=PoiBoy;127254]

American culture is built on capitalism and exploitation.

That may be the setting but the culture is multi-faceted as is its inputs.

[PoiBoy]

Re: Cultural Indentity

That may be the setting but the culture is multi-faceted as is its inputs.

The setting is the foundation. And a faulty one at that.

How legitimate of a culture is "hip hop" ? Rich industry suits who know nothing about "street life" get to dictate what hits the market. How can any culture be legitimate if it is built on capitalism?

Maybe my definition of culture does not coincide with western beliefs. If so then I think it is an insult to all indigenous cultures to be catagorized in the same group as "western culture".

[sinjin]

Re: Cultural Indentity

The setting is the foundation. And a faulty one at that.

How legitimate of a culture is "hip hop" ? Rich industry suits who know nothing about "street life" get to dictate what hits the market. How can any culture be legitimate if it is built on capitalism?

Maybe my definition of culture does not coincide with western beliefs. If so then I think it is an insult to all indigenous cultures to be catagorized in the same group as "western culture".

I hope you are young. I am too old to afford anger as a main component of my character. All societies have those that take advantage of others. What would you do if you had capital?

[PoiBoy]

Re: Cultural Indentity

I hope you are young. I am too old to afford anger as a main component of my character. All societies have those that take advantage of others.

No more debate?


My people have been raped, oppressed, and exploited....I have every right to be angry. We Polynesians have a very strong sense of "aiga" family. We are very proud people. I don't expect anyone other than a member of my "Polynesian Aiga" to understand the "Mana" and pride that we have.

Much aloha to you Sinjin