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The WAC--or WACK?

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  • The WAC--or WACK?

    6 teams left, heading into 2011.

    Hawaii's two greatest "rivals," Fresno St. and BYU are gone. Are fans gonna flock to see us play Utah St. or New Mexico St. in any sport? Highly doubt it.

    Safe to say that UH will be in the red in 2011, unless they bolt for another conference. I don't see school with a competitive athletics program that could "move up" to the WAC. A lot of mid-majors are too far east to be financially fit for WAC play.

    The exodus of WAC schools must be completed.
    Twitter: LookMaICanWrite


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  • #2
    Re: The WAC--or WACK?

    Originally posted by Mike_Lowery View Post
    6 teams left, heading into 2011.

    Hawaii's two greatest "rivals," Fresno St. and BYU are gone. Are fans gonna flock to see us play Utah St. or New Mexico St. in any sport? Highly doubt it.

    Safe to say that UH will be in the red in 2011, unless they bolt for another conference.
    Pray tell,.... what conference can UH bolt for?

    If the Mountain West declines, there's literally no place to go.

    And please. Spare me any speculation about UH getting invited into the 12-Pac (formerly the Pac 10). Ain't gonna happen.

    As soon as the WAC implodes, looks like Hawaii fans are going to have to get used to playing an independent schedule again.
    This post may contain an opinion that may conflict with your opinion. Do not take it personal. Polite discussion of difference of opinion is welcome.

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    • #3
      Re: The WAC--or WACK?

      Originally posted by Frankie's Market View Post
      As soon as the WAC implodes, looks like Hawaii fans are going to have to get used to playing an independent schedule again.
      It’s doubtful any of the remaining teams would be invited to another conference, so as far as implosion, I say it’s not yet inevitable. I’m sure Donovan can pursuade BYU to play us, even though their plan is to go independent in football. What Karl Benson does in the next 48 hours is crucial. In the end, though, I agree with conventional wisdom: UH is majorly screwed.

      We can’t be so fixated on our desire to preserve the rights of ordinary Americans.

      — U.S. President Bill Clinton
      USA TODAY, page 2A
      11 March 1993

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      • #4
        Re: The WAC--or WACK?

        Originally posted by Frankie's Market View Post
        Pray tell,.... what conference can UH bolt for?

        If the Mountain West declines, there's literally no place to go.

        And please. Spare me any speculation about UH getting invited into the 12-Pac (formerly the Pac 10). Ain't gonna happen.

        As soon as the WAC implodes, looks like Hawaii fans are going to have to get used to playing an independent schedule again.
        I doubt the MWC or Pac-10 even wants UH right now.

        Big West looks a lot better in every sport, but that would mean football independence.
        Twitter: LookMaICanWrite


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        • #5
          Re: The WAC--or WACK?

          Originally posted by TuNnL View Post
          It’s doubtful any of the remaining teams would be invited to another conference, so as far as implosion, I say it’s not yet inevitable. I’m sure Donovan can pursuade BYU to play us, even though their plan is to go independent in football.
          Well, it was the plan to have BYU becoming an independent in football (the Cougars having wishful dreams about becoming the Notre Dame of the west) and then having all their other sports rejoining the WAC. But that was before the MWC raided the WAC for Fresno St. and Nevada. This, of course, makes the WAC doubly-unattractive for BYU, as far as travel costs (a league that stretches from Honolulu to Ruston, LA) and their basketball team's RPI are concerned.

          Also, keep in mind that the UH-BYU "rivalry" was one-sided, with Hawaii fans being the ones who made a big deal about it as they kept getting frustrated with a string of football losses in the 1980s. To the fans in Provo, it was just another game. To the rest of the nation in general, a UH-BYU game might as well be Podunk St. vs Chickamauga Tech. (Sorry for the reality slap, to any Hawaii sports fan who was under the delusion that the rivalry meant anything to anyone outside of the 808 area code.)
          This post may contain an opinion that may conflict with your opinion. Do not take it personal. Polite discussion of difference of opinion is welcome.

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          • #6
            Re: The WAC--or WACK?

            If this isn't a wake-up call in how low UH is the college football universe....of what's left of the WAC, besides UH, only San Jose State was in the conference before 2000 and not a former FCS(1-AA) school.

            If I'm UH start calling Fresno and Nevada and offer to pay both of their exit fees to push the MWC to add UH or this program is doomed to cupcake status.

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            • #7
              Re: The WAC--or WACK?

              Originally posted by Frankie's Market View Post
              Well, it was the plan to have BYU becoming an independent in football (the Cougars having wishful dreams about becoming the Notre Dame of the west) and then having all their other sports rejoining the WAC. But that was before the MWC raided the WAC for Fresno St. and Nevada. This, of course, makes the WAC doubly-unattractive for BYU, as far as travel costs (a league that stretches from Honolulu to Ruston, LA) and their basketball team's RPI are concerned.

              Also, keep in mind that the UH-BYU "rivalry" was one-sided, with Hawaii fans being the ones who made a big deal about it as they kept getting frustrated with a string of football losses in the 1980s. To the fans in Provo, it was just another game. To the rest of the nation in general, a UH-BYU game might as well be Podunk St. vs Chickamauga Tech. (Sorry for the reality slap, to any Hawaii sports fan who was under the delusion that the rivalry meant anything to anyone outside of the 808 area code.)
              shouldn't be news to anyone that is a true UH fan. the whole "rivalry" was because UH spoiled BYU's perfect season in 2001 and destroyed them on the day that Ty Detmer was announced as the Heisman winner. But anyway...

              I think the WAC is done.
              Twitter: LookMaICanWrite


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              • #8
                Re: The WAC--or WACK?

                This might be a blessing in disguise. UH can be an independent in football and in the West Coast Conference for other sports. The WCC has quality teams of Gonzaga in basketball, Pepperdine in volleyball, and U of San Diego in baseball.

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                • #9
                  Re: The WAC--or WACK?

                  Originally posted by Ninja View Post
                  If this isn't a wake-up call in how low UH is the college football universe....of what's left of the WAC, besides UH, only San Jose State was in the conference before 2000 and not a former FCS(1-AA) school.
                  I wouldn't say low. I believe UHM gets an appropriate amount of respect from even the Mountain West schools who jumped ship in 1999. The problem is that UHM is a pain in the neck to schedule. Nobody wants to fly that far; it's inconvenient and it's expensive, and the extra home game isn't for some reason the motivation it once was; perhaps because UHM is a respectable program and likely to put up a good win where it once might have been fodder.

                  The issue is geography, and there's nothing to be done about that.

                  If I'm UH start calling Fresno and Nevada and offer to pay both of their exit fees to push the MWC to add UH or this program is doomed to cupcake status.
                  It's just not going to happen. The Mountain West, I truly believe, left because UHM was like a huge weight around its neck (among other reasons). There's just no other explaining the recruiting of Nevada (except TV market, I suppose) ahead of UHM.

                  I will agree that the situation is dire. I might not go so far as to call the departing schools "selfish." UHM's been trying to get the MWC to extend an invitation almost forever, so it's just as selfish. It just hasn't had a chance to demonstrate it.

                  In any case, I don't like this one bit. It is a massive, major disrespecting of the local program. I think the school's best bet, even though it is a step back, is to extend invitations to Div I-AA schools like UC-Davis, schools that want to make the jump to the next level. That doesn't help UHM at all, really, except to preserve the integrity (such as it exists) of the conference. It would be a case of UHM offering other schools a legitimacy, while in return getting basically a place (and teams) to play.

                  Let's not forget that Boise State really came out of nowhere to become the class of the WAC (in one sport). Who's to say it couldn't happen again?

                  I'd like to add one thing, 'though it is mostly irrelevant. Of thirty-two first-round NFL draftees this year, eight were from the Big 12, seven from the SEC, four from the ACC, three from the WAC, three from the Big East, three from the Big 10, two from the Pac 10, one from the Big 12, and one from the Mountain West.
                  But I'm disturbed! I'm depressed! I'm inadequate! I GOT IT ALL! (George Costanza)
                  GrouchyTeacher.com

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                  • #10
                    Re: The WAC--or WACK?

                    I would love to see Hawai'i in the Pac 10, now that its going to expand. It isn't going to happen, but it would be sooooooooo excellent if it did.

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                    • #11
                      Re: The WAC--or WACK?

                      Originally posted by scrivener View Post
                      I wouldn't say low. I believe UHM gets an appropriate amount of respect from even the Mountain West schools who jumped ship in 1999. The problem is that UHM is a pain in the neck to schedule. Nobody wants to fly that far; it's inconvenient and it's expensive, and the extra home game isn't for some reason the motivation it once was; perhaps because UHM is a respectable program and likely to put up a good win where it once might have been fodder.

                      The issue is geography, and there's nothing to be done about that.
                      I hear the geography excuse all the time, yet Honolulu has nonstop air service from virtually all the major cities in the West. Ever tried flying to Fresno, it usually either involves flying into either LAX or SFO and taking 3 hr bus ride or waiting for a commuter jet to connect you.

                      It's just not going to happen. The Mountain West, I truly believe, left because UHM was like a huge weight around its neck (among other reasons). There's just no other explaining the recruiting of Nevada (except TV market, I suppose) ahead of UHM.
                      We also now know that Utah State was also offered an invitation to join the MWC, but declined due to the agreement to stay in the WAC that Fresno St. and Nevada violated.
                      What does Utah State bring? They share the same TV market as BYU(and Utah) are either third or forth in pecking order within Utah, Weber State(Big Sky Conf.) has a bigger following. Clearly the MWC wanted to keep BYU in the fold by making the WAC an unattractive option and yet it still appears that BYU is going to bolt but is now looking to other conferences beyond the WAC to latch on to.

                      As for UH to join other conferences, the Big West is a California only conference and may need to convince SJSU, which has a open invite from the Big West, to join them to make a workable schedule for that conference. But the Big West doesn't have a TV deal with anyone other than regional/local cable networks.
                      The WCC is strong in Mens Hoops and Baseball but lacks bigtime in Womens sports, plus all the schools are religious affiliated and really wonder if they would want a state run school as part of the mix.
                      The Sunbelt or C-USA only works if what's left of the WAC merges into these conferences.

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                      • #12
                        Re: The WAC--or WACK?

                        Sporting News reporting that UHM is possibly going independent.

                        http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/footbal...lug=tsn-166084
                        Twitter: LookMaICanWrite


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                        • #13
                          Re: The WAC--or WACK?

                          At least this didn't happen during Herman Frazier's tenure. He would settle for an easier schedule into Division 2.

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                          • #14
                            Re: The WAC--or WACK?

                            Originally posted by Walkoff Balk View Post
                            At least this didn't happen during Herman Frazier's tenure. He would settle for an easier schedule into Division 2.
                            D2-heavy schedule, with a couple pop warner teams here and there.
                            Twitter: LookMaICanWrite


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                            • #15
                              Re: The WAC--or WACK?

                              I've had all day to think about this, and I'm convinced of a couple of things.

                              1. This is all because of the BCS. I realize this really goes without saying, but it's worth saying again. All this jockeying for position and inclusion, especially at the mid-major, non-BCS level is because the non-BCS want a share of the pie. One can hardly blame them, and as long as this realignment happens within the framework of the rules (such as they exist), there's little a school like UHM can do to stop it. There are all kinds of reasons to consider the many great things a school like UHM has to offer, but if the primary consideration is the BCS, Hawaii doesn't have anything.

                              2. If the NCAA is the governing body for NCAA division I-A football, it may be in its best interest, bottom-line wise, to let this continue. However, if it takes its role seriously, it has to look out for the interests of ALL of its member schools, not to mention the game of college football itself. It MUST care that schools like Hawaii are being left in the lurch, that schools like Utah State and Louisiana Tech could be realigned out of existence through no fault of their own.

                              Without some kind of fair shot for all teams to pursue a national title, the NCAA is going to see the BCS schools continue to bully the non-BCS schools out of existence, as in the case of the surviving WAC schools. This isn't good for the game. It has to do something, if not in this specific case to help this particular conference, then at least in general to keep it from continuing.
                              But I'm disturbed! I'm depressed! I'm inadequate! I GOT IT ALL! (George Costanza)
                              GrouchyTeacher.com

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