Hawaiian Airlines Signs With Airbus

[helen]

Re: Hawaiian and Airbus

but then again, didn't Boeing sort of abandon Seattle too?

I had the impression that Boeing just moved their corporate headquarters to Chicago, but still kept the manufacting plants in Seattle.

And this is not the first time a local airline company used foreign built aircraft to fly between the islands. Aloha Airlines used at least 2 turboprops and 1 jet aircraft in the 1960's (theirs looked like the DC-9).

[joshuatree]

Re: Hawaiian and Airbus

I've never ridden an Airbus. I am sure they are about the same as a Boeing. I don't do much out of state travel.

Slight differences, think Toyota vs Honda.

With the issue of keeping costs low, we'll probably never see any more 3 or 4 engined planes ever again except for the extra large planes like the 747 and the 380.

[Star of Gladness]

Re: Hawaiian Airlines Signs With Airbus

I dont think the A-330 has the lift to take a full load of passengers the entire distance. If they use all their range (full fuel) can they fill all the seats? 300+?

[joshuatree]

Re: Hawaiian Airlines Signs With Airbus

Those routes already stop in Los Angeles or Hong Kong/singapore. Airlnes are trying to avoid making a stop over in the US due to pax having to deplane , get finger printed etc. it's just a hassle....

I agree there are some major hurdles for Hawaiian to overcome if they really want to be that ambitious. However, if you think about it, Hawaiian has stated they want to fly to Europe. They already fly to Sydney. Makes sense to link the two because that city pair has a decent amount of business travelers and those guys provide the biggest profit margins.

Since Hawaiian is buying new widebodies, and I don't ever recall them buying new widebodies, they will have a lot of say in the interior fit. Maybe they will have international first class fitted out? PTVs instead of Digiplayers? LED mood lighting? Lie-flat seats? They can definitely upgrade their first class product.

As for security clearances, yes, that's a big hurdle. But then again, Australia and the UK are countries the US is probably on best terms with short of Canada. It's possible to have preclearance facilities set up in OZ and the UK. I know Vancouver has one, my brother flew from Tokyo to SF and he cleared US customs in Vancouver, the second leg of his Air Canada flight from Vancouver to SF was a US domestic flight, go figure.

Ultimately, I hope to see that they do try to serve this route. It gives Hawaiian a chance to tap into the business traveler market, the leisure traveler market has always been one of the lowest profit margins. Hawaiian really needs to expand into other market areas in order to remain stable. And like you said, newer planes can simply make nonstops now so it makes HNL less and less important. That's not good for the long term future so making HNL a hub for any operation is a good thing.

SRB of Virgin Atlantic did say he wants to fly Europe-Hawaii routes when they take delivery of the 787. Also, HA has expressed interest in flying a Hawaii-Shanghai route if they can get the slot. Hawaii to Japan? I think HA did fly to Fukuoka before but it wasn't profitable. The slots to Tokyo are hard to get as NWA and UA have a stranglehold for that route.

[Star of Gladness]

Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 4

I'm sure the 69,000 mile is a typo but even you think the HA bankruptcy was a sham. So how do you separate HA from go! when it comes to ethics?

In this battle, choose sides, you must! Everybody has their favorites... They might all be liars but Dunkerly and Banmiller don't go around bragging about it or bus driving their top execs and suing their critics or dont get me started... Haven't the mods separated threads?

What HA did to Boeing and what AQ did to the retirees was wrong. No excuses... They were both just as wrong as Mesa with those two stunts but there lies the difference.

Once or twice a decade HA & AQ pull off an occasional "stunt" as described. At Mesa screw jobs are daily protocol as is lying, cheating, stealing, destroying evidence, pencil whipping books to meet compliance with those pesky Federal SARB-OX rules, swapping porn and Lord knows what else.


/rant

/soapbox

[mel]

Re: Hawaiian and Airbus

Surely cost has figured into the overall operation of the airline industry. That is why 2 engine long range jets are more popular than 4 engined ones. Fuel savings, cost, etc. I can understand that. However for someone who lives in the Seattle area, you should also be a little disappointed too since any airline buying an Airbus will not be supporting Boeing... but then again, didn't Boeing sort of abandon Seattle too?

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Hawaiian and Airbus

I guess "troubling" is too strong of a word. Perhaps "disappointed" is a better term. I would like to see our own U.S. aviation industry buy planes from home vs. that of the European consortium... that's all. But I guess Hawaiian carefully mulled over this proposal and found that it fit with their future expansion plans better than what Boeing has to offer.

Maybe it was just the cheapest deal they could find. I understand that there are many airline passengers who prefer bargain deals over any kind of loyalty to a local provider.

[Kaukura]

Re: Hawaiian and Airbus

I've never ridden an Airbus. I am sure they are about the same as a Boeing. I don't do much out of state travel.

True. An aircraft is basically an aircraft. It really depends on how the particular airline configures theirs. You could take an ancient Aloha 737 and make it the most comfortable a/c you've ever flown if you wanted by replacing everything.

[Kaukura]

Re: Hawaiian Airlines Signs With Airbus

There's been quite a bit of chatter on aviation forums and some speculate that perhaps Hawaiian might want to try and tap into the very profitable London-Sydney route and the London-Auckland route. For the most part, these two routes make a stop either in Hong Kong, Singapore, or Dubai for their respective hometown airline, Cathay Pacific, Singapore, and Emirates. Anyone think a Sydney-Honolulu-London or Auckland-Honolulu-London route would work? This could give new life to HNL as a hub again since most planes these days do not need to make a stop in HNL when flying transpacific.

Those routes already stop in Los Angeles or Hong Kong/singapore. Airlnes are trying to avoid making a stop over in the US due to pax having to deplane , get finger printed etc. it's just a hassle.

Air Canada is already beginning nonstop Vancouver/Sydney flights eliminating the HNL stopover. Air New Zealand already flies London to Auckland via Los Angeles or HK. Qantas thru Bangkok of Singapore (Sydney to London).

I dont think Hawaiian is as competitive on service vs. QF or NZ or any of the asian airlines for the business traveler. Current First Class on Hawaiian is akin to an "economy plus" on other airlines. They would have to remodel their entire classes of service to compete. Aircraft such as the A380, the 777, 787 and I suppose the A350 are trying to make nonstop sydney and london a reality.

It'll be interesting to see how it plays out. My guess is these new aircraft will be mainly on North American routes (Vancouver, Toronto, New York, Chicago, Atlanta style destinations). But who knows. 2017 is a long time. 10 years ago Hawaiian was flying those old shiny silver DC10's.

Why isn't HA competing to JAL to Japan?

If British Airways or Virgin Atlantic were to find it lucrative to fly here, then they would already be doing so, but I've not heard of any euro airline with plans to fly here. Just not lucrative enough. Air France is the only euro airliner flying to the south pacific, from Paris to Tahiti via Los Angeles, but that is mainly due to its territory status (DOM) and long ties between France and French Polynesia.

[mel]

Hawaiian and Airbus

Why would it be troubling? I'm more of a Boeing fan than Airbus but I've rode on Airbuses before and they are a great product too. Like you said, Hawaiian never really had a long history with Boeing. The bankruptcy probably created some bad blood between the two as well. Right now, it seems Hawaiian chose Airbus probably for the following factors.

I guess "troubling" is too strong of a word. Perhaps "disappointed" is a better term. I would like to see our own U.S. aviation industry buy planes from home vs. that of the European consortium... that's all. But I guess Hawaiian carefully mulled over this proposal and found that it fit with their future expansion plans better than what Boeing has to offer.

I am aware of the Airbus A330, but was not very aware of the A350, which seems to be Airbus's answer to the Boeing 787.

Personally for long range flight I would prefer a 4-engine jet vs. a twin jet mainly because of the redundancy of having 2 extra engines instead of only relying on 2 engines and ETOPS certification.... I think the Airbus A340 is a good looking plane and I have always been a fan of the Boeing 747.

I've never ridden an Airbus. I am sure they are about the same as a Boeing. I don't do much out of state travel.

[oggboy]

Re: Hawaiian Airlines Signs With Airbus

Way to expand that PUALANI theme HAWAIIAN!!!!!
Show`um the Hawaiian Style, it`s all about the ALOHA....

[joshuatree]

Re: Hawaiian Airlines Signs With Airbus

There's been quite a bit of chatter on aviation forums and some speculate that perhaps Hawaiian might want to try and tap into the very profitable London-Sydney route and the London-Auckland route. For the most part, these two routes make a stop either in Hong Kong, Singapore, or Dubai for their respective hometown airline, Cathay Pacific, Singapore, and Emirates. Anyone think a Sydney-Honolulu-London or Auckland-Honolulu-London route would work? This could give new life to HNL as a hub again since most planes these days do not need to make a stop in HNL when flying transpacific.

[Konaguy]

Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 4

. US economists are predicting major layoffs next year due to fallout from the subprime slump,

The overall economy is heading to a huge slump. The subprime crisis is only one of many reasons why we are heading towards a recession.

[Konaguy]

Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 4

2) For immediate needs, the A330 is a better product than the 767 and HA will be able to lease some as early as 2009. The A330 has better range so this should help with the immediate expansion plans of Manila, maybe some East Coast cities?

3) Airbus probably gave some pretty good terms on the A350 since they are trying to catch up to the 787 in terms of sales. Not to mention since the A350 will debut years later than the 787, it probably will have even better features by the time it rolls out.

Taking into account that the earliest 787 delivery slots are available in 2013,that probably was a factor in their decision to go with Airbus.

As for A350, I'm holding my final opinion until we know more about it. Originally they were only going do minor changes to the A330 and re-name it A350. When that was obviously insufficient to compete with the 787, Airbus did a total re-design. Which means the A350 won't be available until middle of the next decade.

[Composite 2992]

Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 4

The press release says the ScAirbus can go 69,000 miles! I wonder if the crew gets OT on that one?

Non-stop? No way.

It took extremely precise engineering, along with absolutely minimal equipment and wings full of fuel to fly non-stop around the world just once. More than 24,000 miles depending on routing. First by Burt Rutan and Jeanna Yeager. Then solo by Steve Fossett.