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  • Mesa next in line to declare bankruptcy?

    MAG stock closed at a little over 67 cents a share today. How much lower will it go before they declare Chapter 11?

    Read this very interesting column by Holly Hegeman (http://www.planebusiness.com/bestoft...7/bestof.shtml), owner of the Plane Buzz blog for her critique of the MAG Board of Directors and how their lack of decisiveness (this even before the Aloha bankruptcy) is going to spell the end of the company. Of course, she may have a personal vendetta against JO because he slapped her with a libel suit and tried to shut her blog down not too long ago.

    She also relates the story of how the sleeping go! pilots was first uncovered:

    "Then there is the issue of Mesa pilots leaving the airline at historically high rates. The airline's continued high cancellation rates tend to confirm this problem -- suggesting that the airline is having problems putting together enough crews to man its contracted flights.

    This problem shot to the public surface a little more than a week ago, after a Mesa pilot apparently quit, then turned over his logs and flight schedules to a television reporter based in Hawaii. This reporter was the same reporter who broke the story concerning the two go! pilots who apparently fell asleep while piloting their aircraft recently....

    "...Apparently, they also don't have a problem with their CEO losing control with journalists either. Stacy Loe, reporter for a television station in Honolulu apparently called the airline for comments concerning the go! airliner that recently strayed off course. She was the one who broke the story, and she was following up on reports she had received concerning problems with Mesa scheduling and the issue of pilot rest. Jonathan personally talked to her.

    According to Ms. Loe, "Ornstein threatened to sue if I went ahead with it [the story]. Swore at me several times. Then said the stuff about threatening a lawsuit is off the record. Had no comment to my inquiries and promptly hung up..."
    "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

  • #2
    Re: Mesa next in line to declare bankruptcy?

    Karma. What's that song?...What goes around, comes around.....what goes around, comes around...........

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    • #3
      Re: Mesa next in line to declare bankruptcy?

      Hawaiian should just do a hostile take over and then pay themselves the $80 million.

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      • #4
        Re: Mesa next in line to declare bankruptcy?

        Originally posted by joshuatree View Post
        Hawaiian should just do a hostile take over and then pay themselves the $80 million.
        And say ALOHA to about 1900 people looking for new jobs, reinstating a 60-year-old airline. Could that longshot actually come to fruition? Strange things happening in the stratospheres!

        Stacy Loe: Rockin' Roll. Good on HER!
        Aloha from Lavagal

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        • #5
          Re: Mesa next in line to declare bankruptcy?

          I think all Hawaiian has to do is hold the prices down and Mesa could cry "uncle". If Mesa dies, it's possible that Aloha could come back. It's just a matter if investors (well, those who hold Aloha's debt) think the airline is more valuable running then it's assets.

          But for that to happen, I think Mesa has to choke before Aloha's 737s are sold off.

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          • #6
            Re: Mesa next in line to declare bankruptcy?

            Originally posted by GeckoGeek View Post
            I think all Hawaiian has to do is hold the prices down and Mesa could cry "uncle". If Mesa dies, it's possible that Aloha could come back. It's just a matter if investors (well, those who hold Aloha's debt) think the airline is more valuable running then it's assets.

            But for that to happen, I think Mesa has to choke before Aloha's 737s are sold off.
            More like Aloha's 737s are being flown back to their owners since they were leased.

            http://hnlrarebirds.blogspot.com/

            I still don't get why people are hoping for a return of Aloha. Just have Island Air grow and spread its wings.

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            • #7
              Re: Mesa next in line to declare bankruptcy?

              Originally posted by joshuatree View Post
              More like Aloha's 737s are being flown back to their owners since they were leased.
              As long as they haven't found a new life flying with another carrier (or parted out), it shouldn't be hard to get them back.

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              • #8
                Re: Mesa next in line to declare bankruptcy?

                Originally posted by GeckoGeek View Post
                As long as they haven't found a new life flying with another carrier (or parted out), it shouldn't be hard to get them back.
                Again, the question is why bring back Aloha? And at a specific level, why would you want the 737-200s back? Those machines are gas guzzlers.

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                • #9
                  Re: Mesa next in line to declare bankruptcy?

                  I agree. I just don't see how feasible it is to bring back Aloha in the form in which they left. They do not need Mesa to fold in order to come back. Mesa is not holding them back. Why come back to the same situation and same problems that helped them to fold in the first place?

                  I would be curious how many would feel if GO were to simply change their name to Aloha? Would that somehow make it all a little easier?

                  It's possible one day down the road, the name Aloha could rise like a phoenix again under new management, newer more efficient aircraft and a route system in which to grow from, but bringing back Aloha exactly as the day before the folded would not help anybody.

                  I will say that something has to be done with the current interisland flying. I flew yesterday, HNL to kahului Maui and back. Our flight at 7:35 am did not take off until about 8:00 pm and the return at 2:30 was on a very large 767-300. A 20 minute flight on a 767. We did not take off until 30 mins past scheduled departure.

                  I have noticed Hawaiian is listing all their HNL to OGG flights as a 40 min block. This was never the case, they always listed it as a 20 mins block and pretty much were on schedule. I also noticed at the airport yesterday that the flight board listed almost every Hawaiian flight as "delayed". My co worker who flys HNL to OGG each week says it's getting to be almost like flying to the mainland. He even missed his flight last week due to the long lines at OGG coming back.
                  Last edited by Kaukura; April 18, 2008, 05:53 PM.
                  n'importe

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                  • #10
                    Re: Mesa next in line to declare bankruptcy?

                    Originally posted by joshuatree View Post
                    Again, the question is why bring back Aloha? And at a specific level, why would you want the 737-200s back? Those machines are gas guzzlers.
                    From what I gather, the 737-200s are well suited for the inter-island job. You can't just go down to the local dealer buy a fleet. Especially not a fleet that will handle interisland. Oh, you can probably go pick some up from the boneyard, but there's a reason those planes are there - probably too expensive to operate.

                    And I'd say there's a race - the new entrant has to be operating before Mesa recovers and before someone else moves in. So you can't wait for a new fleet to be built.

                    Keep in mind that it's been estimated that of the three airlines, Aloha had the lowest cost of operation. I'm not sure how much the rising fuel cost shifted that, but it seems to me that a new operator can make a go of it with the Aloha fleet until they have time to change them out for what they really want.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Mesa next in line to declare bankruptcy?

                      Originally posted by GeckoGeek View Post
                      From what I gather, the 737-200s are well suited for the inter-island job. You can't just go down to the local dealer buy a fleet. Especially not a fleet that will handle interisland. Oh, you can probably go pick some up from the boneyard, but there's a reason those planes are there - probably too expensive to operate.

                      And I'd say there's a race - the new entrant has to be operating before Mesa recovers and before someone else moves in. So you can't wait for a new fleet to be built.

                      Keep in mind that it's been estimated that of the three airlines, Aloha had the lowest cost of operation. I'm not sure how much the rising fuel cost shifted that, but it seems to me that a new operator can make a go of it with the Aloha fleet until they have time to change them out for what they really want.
                      The 737-200s are well suited for inter-island based on two foundations, 1) Inouye helped Aloha get an exemption to noise restrictions, the 200s are practically banned on the mainland unless hush kits are fitted, and 2) the price of a barrel of oil was below $50. With oil at $117 and climbing, Aloha by far had the highest cost out of the three. In my opinion, the carrier with truly the lowest cost for inter-island is Island Air. They have the right aircraft for the market. SAS was trying to unload 10 Q400s due to a PR issue with the landing gear. If you wanted a fleet fast, that was the opportunity right there. In fact, Aloha should have done that. The ironic thing is, Bombardier fixed the landing gear issue and there is no further problem. SAS ended up putting in a new order of Q400s because that was the right plane for the job, short haul flights with high frequency, just like inter-island.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Mesa next in line to declare bankruptcy?

                        Getting back to the Aloha 737s, several of them have been returned to the mainland to their owners. Some may be going to the boneyards (737-200s). I don't know how many of the idle passenger jets are sitting at HNL airport, but if you follow the Honolulu Rare Birds blog site, they usually keep up with these things.
                        I'm still here. Are you?

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                        • #13
                          Re: Mesa next in line to declare bankruptcy?

                          Originally posted by Kaukura View Post
                          I will say that something has to be done with the current interisland flying. I flew yesterday, HNL to kahului Maui and back. Our flight at 7:35 am did not take off until about 8:00 pm...
                          Whoa, fo real? Or did you just type that out wrong?
                          I'm disgusted and repulsed, and I can't look away.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Mesa next in line to declare bankruptcy?

                            Originally posted by mel View Post
                            Some may be going to the boneyards (737-200s).
                            I wonder if any will turn up in a future Mythbusters or Smash Lab episode. Like the time that Smash Lab blew up a couple of HAL DC-9s.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Mesa next in line to declare bankruptcy?

                              Originally posted by LeiKaina View Post
                              Whoa, fo real? Or did you just type that out wrong?
                              wHOOPS. Im hoping it was obvious it was a typo. 30 mins late departure is what I was going for... Still, that was, in my 3 years of monthly interisland flying (HNL to KOA, Hilo or OGG), the exception to the rule. usually interislands are much more ontime except for the rare heavy rain and winds.

                              I pretty much flew exclusively Hawaiian to be honest. I did start flying Aloha to Maui with a co worker as my co worker flew them there exclusively (and he was the one to pick me up from home). Honestly it was a rare time the Aloha flights were completely full compared to Hawaiian. Just my observation. The odds were high of getting an aisle to myself.


                              The 737-200 is a 737-100 with an extended fuselage. It was launched by United Airlines in 1965 and entered service in 1968. The 737-200 Advanced is an improved version of the -200, introduced by All Nippon Airways on 20 May 1971.[50] The aircraft has improved aerodynamics, automatic wheel brakes, more powerful engines, more fuel capacity and longer range than the -200.[51] The last delivery of a -200 series aircraft was in August 1988.[52] A large number of 737-200s are still in service, mostly with "second tier" airlines and those of developing nations
                              n'importe

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