Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 3

[LikaNui]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 3

I thought it might make sense to have Superferry dock on the other side (...)
I think they nixed that idea because (...)
In order of priority, my guess is (...)

See, Miulang? All this speculation from you, and almost no cold hard facts.
As I've said here many times, I have my own questions and concerns on the subject, but I (and hopefully most reasonable people) will base my decision on FACTS, not on speculation.

[Miulang]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 3

See, Miulang? All this speculation from you, and almost no cold hard facts.
As I've said here many times, I have my own questions and concerns on the subject, but I (and hopefully most reasonable people) will base my decision on FACTS, not on speculation.

Here is some more history on the Kahului Harbor issue. The concern is not just about Superferry but about ALL increased use of the limited space in the harbor.

Miulang

[joshuatree]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 3

Thanks for the map link and detailed descriptions. I definitely have a better picture of Kahului Harbor now. Clearly it looks like the State did some poor planning then when HSF showed up and said they wanted to lay anchor at Kahului. The easiest and cheapest solution I really see right now is to engage NCL and negotiate for them to have their cruise ships lay anchor in the middle of the harbor and have smaller boats ferry passengers back and forth. That 2/3 of pier 1 can then be used for HSF and the boat ferries for NCL.

Looking at the map again, maybe another method is to play musical chairs. It really seems inefficient to have heavy cargo operations mixed with commercial passenger service on the same pier - pier 1 with Matson and NCL and pier 2 potentially with YB and HSF. Maybe YB and NCL can trade places. So pier 1 is Matson and YB, all cargo loading ops. NCL can dock at pier 2 on one side and HSF on the other side. I suspect a NCL cruise ship is longer than the length of pier 2 but you don't need to dock the entire length of the cruise ship to enable passengers to disembark.

[Konaguy]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 3

Joshuatree, it seems we are on a crash course for stalemate. Hence
why I decided not to respond to your last posting. I probably could,
but whats the point ? There is nothing that I've read that has or will
change my opinion about the HSF. The negatives simply outweight
positives.

[Miulang]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 3

The interesting thing about it all is, each county has a harbor plan for the year 2030 (and most are in the process of revising their plans) that were probably drawn up around 2000. So much has changed since then (Superferry wasn't even in the equation when this plan was drawn up) that Maui County in particular really does need to revise its harbor plan desperately.

Most of the recommendations that were drafted for the 2030 plan have fallen by the wayside, including the plans for upgrading the current cruise line facilities, so again, what was the reason the County and the residents worked so long and hard to have the master plan drawn up anyway??

Miulang

[Konaguy]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 3

http://starbulletin.com/2006/09/29/e...ommentary.html

THE LINGLE administration's refusal to acknowledge the need of an environmental impact statement for the pending Superferry operation is both outrageous and irresponsible.

The county councils of Maui, the Big Island and Kauai have all been adamant in their request that the state of Hawaii requires an EIS prior to the start of the Superferry operations. Many if not most of the neighbor island state legislators have indicated their support for an EIS requirement and thousands of individuals have made it abundantly clear that they believe an EIS should be mandatory.

[joshuatree]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 3

Joshuatree, it seems we are on a crash course for stalemate. Hence
why I decided not to respond to your last posting. I probably could,
but whats the point ? There is nothing that I've read that has or will
change my opinion about the HSF. The negatives simply outweight
positives.

hey Konaguy, yeah, it seems that way so I guess we can always agree to disagree but it's all good in the end because I get to see more of your viewpoints and I get to present mine

[joshuatree]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 3

The interesting thing about it all is, each county has a harbor plan for the year 2030 (and most are in the process of revising their plans) that were probably drawn up around 2000. So much has changed since then (Superferry wasn't even in the equation when this plan was drawn up) that Maui County in particular really does need to revise its harbor plan desperately.

Most of the recommendations that were drafted for the 2030 plan have fallen by the wayside, including the plans for upgrading the current cruise line facilities, so again, what was the reason the County and the residents worked so long and hard to have the master plan drawn up anyway??

Miulang

That's one thing I never could understand about Hawaii's gov't at all levels, all talk but no substance. I can never watch any politician's campaign commercial without hurling especially when they ham it up with "ohana" and "aloha". I rather have a cold hearted machine in office as long as things are done fairly and on schedule.

[joshuatree]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 3

http://starbulletin.com/2006/09/29/e...ommentary.html

THE LINGLE administration's refusal to acknowledge the need of an environmental impact statement for the pending Superferry operation is both outrageous and irresponsible.

The county councils of Maui, the Big Island and Kauai have all been adamant in their request that the state of Hawaii requires an EIS prior to the start of the Superferry operations. Many if not most of the neighbor island state legislators have indicated their support for an EIS requirement and thousands of individuals have made it abundantly clear that they believe an EIS should be mandatory.

Read the link, gonna have to say there's a bit of exaggeration in that commentary. HSF is now also gonna be at fault for bringing in crime too?

But just to play devil's advocate, okay, let's say we do the EIS. And it will pretty much state the obvious, more traffic, busier harbor traffic, etc. Then what? Are you gonna shut down HSF then? And if so, what happens to the $40 mil spent by the state on the barges and associated equipment being built in China at the moment? What about the federally backed loan HSF took to build the ships? The residents of Hawaii plus all other American taxpayers gonna foot that $140 mil loan as the feds repossess the ships and sell them at a fraction of the loan?

And I need to point this out, HSF's agreement with the state is a 22 year agreement and guarantees at least $2.3 mil in payment from HSF to the State in fees annually, excluding the docking fees for each time the ships call port. So is the $40 mil the State's spending really a subsidy to HSF, considering all the harbor upgrades belong to the State and is not exclusively reserved for HSF? If another ferry startup wants to use the facilities, HSF has to make room for them. As for the federally backed loan, that's a loophole caused by two laws. The Jones Act requires any marine service between two US ports to consist of a ship built in the US, registered in the US, and manned by a US crew. Which is probably why HSF is having their ships built in Alabama. The ship manufacturer, Austal, is based in Australia and easily could build it there. Then you got the Title XI law that permits ships built in the US to apply for a federally backed loan. Can you say that's subsidizing HSF on a federal level or just merely the confluence of two laws?

[Konaguy]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 3

The Maui News had two articles on HSF yesterday here and here in regards to the public hearing that happened on Maui and agriculture inspection regulations pertaining to HSF.

[craigwatanabe]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 3

I read with interest in the SB about the latest "grumblings" on the superferry and was astonished to see that the main issue presented at the Kona discussion was about the influx of traffic from 100 vehicles? That's not a whole lot when you consider not all are leaving at once.

And then there's the environmental impact from Kauai. Super Ferry officials indicated that vehicles with muddy tires and such will not be allowed to board the vessel.

So maybe a tire washer (like those found at some construction sites for heavy vehicles to drive thru so the mud doesn't get onto the public roadways) should be incorporated into the boarding scheme, maybe even a car/truck wash.

I've transported three cars from Oahu to Hilo in the past 3-years on YB and not once was I required to have clean wheels. No one inspected the treads on my tires for seeds nor was my car fumigated from the cockaroaches were inside (my kid's happy meals left unattended overnight). For all YB cared, they could care less and they're doing it as we speak.

If the super ferry will need an EIS then guess what, the ramifications will make it more expensive for YB to ship cars as well. Remember what's good for the goose...

And if whale spotters are being required on all SF trips, then they should be required on ALL meritime vessels including the YB barges.

The cost of interisland cargo shipping will go up with these kinds of mandates. As YB says, they are the lifeline of the Hawaiian islands, and those who are protesting the SF are gonna making that lifeline more expensive.

BTW a good environmental engineer friend of mine tells me the engineering firm he's working for has been involved in preparing some kind of "documents" that cover SF EIS issues. He didn't want to elaborate but let's just say environmental concerns are being addressed in this project of his.

[Konaguy]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 3

If the HSF does catch on, It is my understanding that the ferry could carry
more than 100 vehicles. That being said, in my opinion Kawaihae is nowhere
ready to handle HSF.Hilo already has the infrastructure in place, be it roads
and harbor facilities. On the other hand I'd hate to imagine seeing the traffic
jams at the Akoni Pule Hwy/ Queen Kaahumanu Highway intersection.

If HSF switched to Hilo, I would be dramatically less opposed to their service.
But based upon what they say on their website (Since removed)

http://www.hawaiisuperferry.com/fares/routes.html

"Why we don’t go to Hilo: A Honolulu to Hilo route would take 6 hours (vs. 4 to Kawaihae) and must operate through the rough Alenuihaha Channel. As a result, Hilo would cost more to serve, and would often be uncomfortably rough."

[Miulang]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 3

If the HSF does catch on, It is my understanding that the ferry could carry
more than 100 vehicles. That being said, in my opinion Kawaihae is nowhere
ready to handle HSF.Hilo already has the infrastructure in place, be it roads
and harbor facilities. On the other hand I'd hate to imagine seeing the traffic
jams at the Akoni Pule Hwy/ Queen Kaahumanu Highway intersection.

If HSF switched to Hilo, I would be dramatically less opposed to their service.
But based upon what they say on their website (Since removed)

http://www.hawaiisuperferry.com/fares/routes.html

"Why we don’t go to Hilo: A Honolulu to Hilo route would take 6 hours (vs. 4 to Kawaihae) and must operate through the rough Alenuihaha Channel. As a result, Hilo would cost more to serve, and would often be uncomfortably rough."

Well, Kona is also closer to Pohakuloa too, isn't it? I read somewhere that the State and DoD would consider building a dirt road for the use of military equipment (Stryker Brigade) that gets ferried from Honolulu to the BI for training. According to this article,

The $40 million is expected to be repaid through Hawai‘i taxes should HSF not generate enough revenue to pay back the state. This is an inflammatory touch-point, as HSF is a private enterprise. And HSF has also cut a deal with the military to move troops, including the entire Stryker Brigade, between O‘ahu and the Big Island for training exercises. The Superferry’s sister ship, the Westpac Express, has been on a long-term lease by the U.S. military since 2001 to shuttle Marines between Okinawa and mainland Japan.
Lehman plans a similar use for HSF, with Stryker Brigade use on a regular basis and daily shuttling of military equipment.

Miulang

[Konaguy]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 3

Well, Kona is also closer to Pohakuloa too, isn't it? I read somewhere that the State and DoD would consider building a dirt road for the use of military equipment (Stryker Brigade) that gets ferried from Honolulu to the BI for training. According to this article,

Actually there is an existing tank trail from Kawaihae to Pohakuloa.It is evidently going to be upgraded as a part of Stryker brigrade being based in Hawaii. Anyway military currently uses Kawaihae harbor to ferry their equipment from Oahu.

But like I said, the infrastructure (Both roadway and harbor) are already in place Hilo. Actually as far as I recall, the state appropriated 45 million dollars to upgrade Hilo harbor last legislative session.

[Miulang]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 3

Aaron:
Here's the Year 2020 Harbor Plan summary for Kawaihae. Can you tell how much of it is still being followed? See especially the discussion under "Passenger Terminals". Are they proposing to build a Pier 4 for Superferry?

Miulang