Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

[craig foo]

Re: table turned on Oahu/U.S. fascUSts, HI demockratic food chain

Talking about getting fixed up, maybe the Lehman gang will reveal why they led themselves to be led to believe that they had a rock solid fix for their investment futures in Hawai'i. Would a Democrat governor have been so willingly persuaded to screw over neighbor islanders for HSF, Inc Superferry as has been Lingle and crew?

I don't know if a Democrat governor would have done it. I don't think Cayetano would have but Waihee probably would. Here is the Governor's latest thoughts:

"My bigger and broader concern is the future of a sense of community in the state. This is giving us a very bad reputation," Lingle told reporters yesterday during a informal news conference at the state Capitol.
Commenting on last week's Kauai protests at the meeting, Lingle said "it was beyond rude, it was un-Hawaii-like." http://starbulletin.com/2007/09/25/news/story05.html

What does she mean it was "un-Hawaii-like". Like "it sure was different in the plantation days"?

At the meeting in Lihue last week the Governor acknowledged she could have received at least $25,000 in reported campaign contributions from Superferry interets. When the campaign contributions question was first addressed to her she waffled into another topic, then someone in the audience said something to the effect, "On followthemoney.com it says you got at least $25,000 in the last election cycle from Superferry interests, is that true?" And she did not try to deny it but instead offered a % of the total campaign funds reported as a way to make the Superferry monies seem miniscule and insignificant.

There is absolutely no enterprise that compares to capitalists return on their monies as what they profit from investing in politicians. In this case, just talking money terms, they forked over $25,000 to the candidate Governor and they got $40million in return. That's better than a 10,000% return if I got my math right. No businessman can refuse those numbers, but why is it politicians can be had so cheaply? Oh yeah, it's not politicians monies they lavish on their suitors, its the peoples, and "there's more where that came from" the politician assures her suitors.

Hawaii Superferry interests who contributed to Gov. Linda Lingle’s 2006 re-election campaign:
Hawaii Superferry Chairman John Lehman, $3,000.
Hawaii Superferry Vice Chairman Tig Krekel, $3,000.
Hawaii Superferry President John Garibaldi, $2,800 in 2006 and $1,000 in 2004.
Hawaii Superferry board member and Maui Land & Pineapple Co. CEO David Cole, $4,000.
David Cole’s wife, Margaret, $6,000.
ML&P majority stockholder and Superferry investor Steve Case, $3,000.
ML&P, $1,000.

That gets close to $25,000, at least as regards the Superferry interests reported contributions.

[glossyp]

Re: table turned on Oahu/U.S. fascUSts, HI demockratic food chain

I don't know if a Democrat governor would have done it. I don't think Cayetano would have but Waihee probably would. Here is the Governor's latest thoughts:

"My bigger and broader concern is the future of a sense of community in the state. This is giving us a very bad reputation," Lingle told reporters yesterday during a informal news conference at the state Capitol.
Commenting on last week's Kauai protests at the meeting, Lingle said "it was beyond rude, it was un-Hawaii-like." http://starbulletin.com/2007/09/25/news/story05.html

What does she mean it was "un-Hawaii-like". Like "it sure was different in the plantation days"?

At the meeting in Lihue last week the Governor acknowledged she could have received at least $25,000 in reported campaign contributions from Superferry interets. When the campaign contributions question was first addressed to her she waffled into another topic, then someone in the audience said something to the effect, "On followthemoney.com it says you got at least $25,000 in the last election cycle from Superferry interests, is that true?" And she did not try to deny it but instead offered a % of the total campaign funds reported as a way to make the Superferry monies seem miniscule and insignificant.

There is absolutely no enterprise that compares to capitalists return on their monies as what they profit from investing in politicians. In this case, just talking money terms, they forked over $25,000 to the candidate Governor and they got $40million in return. That's better than a 10,000% return if I got my math right. No businessman can refuse those numbers, but why is it politicians can be had so cheaply? Oh yeah, it's not politicians monies they lavish on their suitors, its the peoples, and "there's more where that came from" the politician assures her suitors.

Hawaii Superferry interests who contributed to Gov. Linda Lingle’s 2006 re-election campaign:
Hawaii Superferry Chairman John Lehman, $3,000.
Hawaii Superferry Vice Chairman Tig Krekel, $3,000.
Hawaii Superferry President John Garibaldi, $2,800 in 2006 and $1,000 in 2004.
Hawaii Superferry board member and Maui Land & Pineapple Co. CEO David Cole, $4,000.
David Cole’s wife, Margaret, $6,000.
ML&P majority stockholder and Superferry investor Steve Case, $3,000.
ML&P, $1,000.

That gets close to $25,000, at least as regards the Superferry interests reported contributions.

And because of this I should hate the Superferry or are you saying that because of this the Superferry shouldn't be allowed to operate? Politicians of all stripes taking money from business interests is nothing new and not particularly sinister unless it can be proven that something nefarious went on. If something illegal happened, then it should be investigated, but I don't consider donations made legally to be a reason to damn the Superferry.

[GeckoGeek]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

and their response is martial law?

The public tends to get kinda bent out of shape if you start shooting at the illegal protesters.

For the CG to tell the Governor that they are powerless to enforce the law against unarmed civilians just isn't going to happen.

They can probably deal with a few protesters, but they have to figure this could well get bigger. They can't just prepare for the same size protest as last time, but a bigger one. Trying to deal with that many at once is a real problem. What's more, there isn't that many options that can be done safely without out risk of drowning someone. Without looking, the plan may be to keep them out of the water completely and stop them on land where there are more options for safe use of force.

And I think that most of Hawaii's who is laughing at Kauai's protesters don't get our point--we're not completely opposed to the Super Ferry. We're just asking Linda to obey laws and get an EIS done.

And the folks demanding the law be respected are dising the law themselves? And not just Martin Luther King style of civil disobedience, but true rudeness, obscenities and displays of violence? Pardon me while I laugh.

Whatever it is the protesters are trying to protect, I think they've already lost. They are dying on the inside due to their hostility.

Maui is using the law to get what they want. Notice the difference in attitude toward them.

[GeckoGeek]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

About a decade ago, a friend of mine, a Big Island native, moved back with her two kids and applied for a job in Hilo. One of the questions she was asked: DO YOU HAVE ANY RELATIVES HERE? WHO?

It seemed so "clannish" as the interviewer was aware she had come from Oahu. She said it made her feel like an "invader."

Just to bring another prospective to that incident. What the employer may be looking for is to make sure the applicant has "roots" in the community and isn't going to get a bad case of "rock fever" and leave in a few months.

[GeckoGeek]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

What does it say about some of the Oahu mentality in this conversation who proclaim "The next time" this or that disaster strikes Kauai as if Honolulu County is somehow immune to disasters like hurricanes and tsunamis? Or that Oahu is somehow more self-sufficient than Kauai?

Let's look at the numbers:
910,000 Honolulu
63,000 Kauai

In other words, we're 14 times your size. For us to donate a bunch of our panic buys (tarps, TP, water, batteries, etc) to be shipped over there after Iniki was no big thing. If the roles were reversed - well, as much as we'd appreciate the offer, pardon us if we look to the mainland to help us out. We're just too big - especially when your own supply lines run though our ports anyway.

Conversely, you can see why we're not too worried about alienating Kauai.

[GeckoGeek]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

Does a county in our nation as presently constituted have the right to block a legal mode of transportation?

What about the concept that freedom of movement is a basic tenet of American commerce?

Excellent point!

And I think that answers what was mentioned before:

The way we control development construction on Kauai is through a County Planning process, Council and public hearings, public, private and community meetings. All the ways that were not permitted to us regarding the Superferry because Superferry investors didn't want it that way,

Because it's not the county's place to say about STATE harbors and intrastate transportation.

Oh, and if development is such a big deal, why not complain about Hawaiian Tel's faster DSL service? You realize the more connected you become, the easier it is for folks to move and work out Kauai? Perhaps a bunch of rich Silicon Vally types will move in, and buy A&B's rich estates. Where's the cry over that?

What's really strange here is how the protests over the HSF is well out of proportion to the threat posed - and yet other threats seem to go unchallenged.

[GeckoGeek]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

Will it hurt business? It might hurt tourism a bit ..., but will it hurt CONUS companies from wanting to do business there? Not necessarily.

Refresh my memory here. Which island passed the anti-big box law to block Wal-Mart? That can't be anti-business, can it? Or what about the repeated pattern in Hawaii of people who get the needed permits and then get shut down at the last minute because of protests?

Sorry, given the intense emotion attached to the HSF, I have a problem believing the line "we just want an EIS - if we just get a EIS, then we'll be happy. Really."

No, the EIS is just a talking point. It's really all about the politics of "no".

[GeckoGeek]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

Superferry was a fantastic alternative that may forever sail away. That is what the vocal minority wants and I guess that is what they will probably get.

I hope I am proven wrong on this, but it seems to be heading that way.

Well. Something is a foot, I'm sure. First Lingle asked HSF to stop. Then when HSF overcame one court challenge, they decided to sit it out.

I don't think Lingle or HSF is gong to give up that easily. Neither party got to where they are by rolling over at the first sign of opposition.

[mel]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

Well. Something is a foot, I'm sure. First Lingle asked HSF to stop. Then when HSF overcame one court challenge, they decided to sit it out.

I don't think Lingle or HSF is gong to give up that easily. Neither party got to where they are by rolling over at the first sign of opposition.

Superferry cannot afford to be sitting idle in the harbor while bills, payroll and other expenses just keep adding up.

I am sure by now they are at least making a plan for an exit strategy that minimizes cost, yet hope for the best that the court cases at least allow them to operate while the whole mess of an EA is worked out and can be done concurrently.

Suspending service until after an EA or/and an EIS is done, would be financially unacceptable.

An interesting piece regarding Kauai's numbers appears here:

Hawaii Superferry Debate: Breaking Down the Kauai Numbers

According to the 2000 Census, there were 58,303 people living on Kauai. That number increased to 63,004 by 2006.

That's an increase of 4,701 people in only 6 years. And that's without the Superferry. And do you think those people are walking everywhere?

[zztype]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

David Shapiro

When rowdiness quickly overtook last week's meeting on Kaua'i about the future of the Hawaii Superferry, Gov. Linda Lingle tried to settle things down by reminding the audience of the Aloha State's tradition of mutual respect.

"We want a meeting that respects all people," she said. "That's the way of Hawai'i. We recognize that feelings are intense, passions are high, but that shouldn't take away the basis of who we are as a people."

The sentiment drew some applause, but didn't make much difference. The audience of more than 1,000 continued to boo, shout down and curse the governor and other speakers who said anything they didn't want to hear about the Superferry resuming trips to Kaua'i.

The fact is, Lingle's description of who we are may be outdated; what we saw is perhaps exactly the kind of people we're becoming — rude, self-righteous loudmouths who refuse to hear out others and feel entitled to get our way by any means necessary.

...rude, self-righteous loudmouths who refuse to hear out others and feel entitled to get our way by any means necessary.

[1stwahine]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

David Shapiro



...rude, self-righteous loudmouths who refuse to hear out others and feel entitled to get our way by any means necessary.

Foa SHAME!!!

[craig foo]

Re: John Lehman et. al's Hawaii $uperfascUSt ferry

Not all of the reporting on CONUS about HSF is 100% pro-HSF. Some of it actually is pretty balanced (although, obviously, the pro-HSF viewpoint gets the lead). And then you got Seattle station KOMO clearly being for the protestors.

Miulang

One manuever that went unreported, unrecognized by the media and not widely known among Kauai citizens regarding Governor Lingle's introducing her Superferry Unified Command to Kauai residents a week ago was the fact that on her panel she did not have a member of Hawaii National Guard on the panel she introduced to Kauai citizens attending the meeting and the Oahu Superferry employees is whose jet stream she flew to Kauai.

Since beginning a few days before the Governors arrival to Kauai, the Guard had begun "anti-terrorist exercises" at Vindinha Stadium about midway between the Convention Hall and the Superferry staging area next to the public park at Nawiliwili. Small coincidence? I doubt it.

[craig foo]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

Let's look at the numbers:
910,000 Honolulu
63,000 Kauai
...you can see why we're not too worried about alienating Kauai.

Given that ..."My bigger and broader concern is the future of a sense of community in the state. " Lingle told reporters yesterday during a informal news conference at the state Capitol. ... it is obvious that she is either being disingenuous or she does not fully appreciate many of her Oahu constituents' sense of community.

[GeckoGeek]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

According to the 2000 Census, there were 58,303 people living on Kauai. That number increased to 63,004 by 2006.

That's an increase of 4,701 people in only 6 years.

4,701 sounds like a lot of people, but that's about 8% or 1.3% per year. Doesn't sound like that big number to me. What's the normal growth though birth rate? I don't have time now to look, but I have to wonder if more people are leaving Kauai then arriving.

[GeckoGeek]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

Given that ..."My bigger and broader concern is the future of a sense of community in the state. " Lingle told reporters yesterday during a informal news conference at the state Capitol. ... it is obvious that she is either being disingenuous or she does not fully appreciate many of her Oahu constituents' sense of community.

Lingle isn't the one telling Kauai "Just wait until the next hurricane".