Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 6

[LikaNui]

Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 6

WHOA. I just turned on KITV news and caught the middle of a story. An executive of our Dept. Of Agriculture (I think it was) was talking about the extremely extensive precautions (including inspecting each vehicle's engine compartment and trunk, etc.) the SuperFerry is taking to avoid people taking stolen goods or transporting invasive species, etc. She said the SuperFerry had waaaay "raised the bar" for all other shippers and airlines to have to meet. The story then interviewed an executive from Young Brothers who whined about having to meet all those stringent requirements.
So... which company needs an EIS now?
Gosh, I'll just bet those Kauai protesters will be out there blocking every Young Brothers barge.

[oceanpacific]

Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 6

Have they ever protested Young Brothers bringing cars to Kauai, new, used, or those owned by "invasive species?"

[LikaNui]

Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 6

Have they ever protested Young Brothers bringing cars to Kauai, new, used, or those owned by "invasive species?"

Of course not. YB doesn't cause problems. Neither does Matson or NCL or Hawaiian or Aloha or go! et al. All those companies are perfect stewards of the environment! Only the SuperFerry causes problems.
According to the protesters.

[infinitypro]

Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 6

WHOA. I just turned on KITV news and caught the middle of a story. An executive of our Dept. Of Agriculture (I think it was) was talking about the extremely extensive precautions (including inspecting each vehicle's engine compartment and trunk, etc.) the SuperFerry is taking to avoid people taking stolen goods or transporting invasive species, etc. She said the SuperFerry had waaaay "raised the bar" for all other shippers and airlines to have to meet. The story then interviewed an executive from Young Brothers who whined about having to meet all those stringent requirements.
So... which company needs an EIS now?
Gosh, I'll just bet those Kauai protesters will be out there blocking every Young Brothers barge.

Anxious to read the oppositions' defense of this news report, although I predict that perhaps their "truths" will come out and admit that most are either just protesting 'cause there's nothing better to do OR are hiding behind the EIS and are just prejudice.

[Miulang]

Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 6

Anxious to read the oppositions' defense of this news report, although I predict that perhaps their "truths" will come out and admit that most are either just protesting 'cause there's nothing better to do OR are hiding behind the EIS and are just prejudice.

The invasive species lady testified that visual inspection of the undercarriages of cars (all they are required to inspect are wheel wells) would not be sufficient to prevent detection of miconia seeds from being carried aboard HSF. Miconia is something that has overgrown the Big Island and Maui, but so far has not affected Oahu or Kauai to the same extent yet, and the DoA would like to keep it that way. She suggested that it was possible to mitigate the risk by requiring the undercarriages of all cars to be power washed (something that is not required right now) prior to boarding and she said the US Forestry Service was using a portable undercarriage power washer for the purpose of decontaminating the undercarriages of its vehicles on CONUS. When asked how Forestry people decontaminate their trucks today on Maui after they have gone into miconia-infested areas, she says their undercarriages are power washed at a facility in Makawao at least once a week, whether or not they have gone into the forests or not. She said the other risk was used fishing nets (because of dried limu), so if no one was allowed to bring nets aboard the boat, the threat to local limu beds would be removed.

She said she has also made the same recommendations to YB for shipping cars (not new cars).

BTW: on the surface, it does appear that the rules for HSF are more stringent than what is required for other transporations modes, but there have been anecdotal reports from people who took their cars aboard HSF that the HSF staff are not doing extensive searches, just cursory ones because of the short turnaround times for boarding and making the return voyage. Also, although they are supposed to have been trained by DNLR and DoA staff on what to look for, the lady who testified for the DoA said it was the department's responsibility---not the HSF staff's responsibility---to examine any plants that might be brought aboard the ferry.

I'm not sure if that new car wash that's near the ferry terminal in Kahului (down by Hobron St.) washes undercarriages or not; I know they are a "green" business. But if every undercarriage has to be washed prior to boarding, then that could slow down the boarding process unless the cars are powerwashed away from the boarding area and then the drivers have to provide proof that the undercarriages had been washed just prior to boarding.

Today's testimony was from the HSF whale expert, and he wasn't as prepared to testify compared to Greg Kaufman of the Pacific Whale Foundation. He didn't have all of his evidence readily available and sometimes couldn't quote the sources of his testimony. He is scheduled to return to the witness chair tomorrow morning. After him, I believe there is only John Garibaldi left to testify before the Judge takes the case under consideration and makes his decision.

Miulang

[LikaNui]

Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 6

GOOD GRIEF. Infinity's reponse was about an item from a NEWS PROGRAM that aired tonight HERE IN HAWAII... it was NOT about the trial!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The invasive species lady testified that

Infinity and I weren't talking about anyone's testimony. It was a news report from the Dept. of Agriculture where they praised the SuperFerry. Oh. Wait. Now I see why you changed the subject.

there have been anecdotal reports from people who took their cars aboard HSF that the HSF staff are not doing extensive searches

Ah yes. "Anecdotal reports." More commonly known as UNSUBSTANTIATED RUMORS.

I'm not sure if (...) But if every undercarriage (...) that could slow down (...) unless the cars are (...) I believe there is

And all in answering the wrong question.
*sigh*

[joshuatree]

Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 6

Is the whole undercarriage issue really that difficult to resolve? The way I see it, all they need is a few car washers like they have at Enterprise or any other car rental places on the HSF. They can simply power wash the undercarriages of the vehicles while the ship is in transit. All the water run off simply goes off the deck. Or does that require an EIS too?

[Miulang]

Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 6

Is the whole undercarriage issue really that difficult to resolve? The way I see it, all they need is a few car washers like they have at Enterprise or any other car rental places on the HSF. They can simply power wash the undercarriages of the vehicles while the ship is in transit. All the water run off simply goes off the deck. Or does that require an EIS too?

No, it seems like a pretty simple fix to me, too. The main problem is what to do with the water from the undercarriages since it will be contaminated (can't just let it flow overboard). I think the idea is to clean the cars before they get on the boat. But the invasive species lady didn't sound like this issue would necessarily prevent HSF from sailing if the mitigations were done.

That invasive species expert also said to make it really simple for the DoA and HSF staff regarding invasive plants, that if all plants in dirt were prohibited from being brought aboard (so that there would be no question about whether it had been inspected by the DoA or not--she mentioned specifically banana plants, for some reason, and I suspect papaya plants would be in the same category) and the same procedure was followed with used fishing nets, it really wasn't going to be very much of a problem with HSF operating. A representative from DNLR did testify, and he was called specifically by Hall because of the rock incident but the judge ruled that he couldn't talk about the rocks, so his testimony was rather limited. I think I read somewhere that HSF passengers aren't allowed to bring dirt, sand or rocks aboard as cargo. Whether there are DNLR inspectors assigned to check for this, I don't know. The only reason why the rocks were found at the ferry dock is that DNLR got an anonymous tip that three trucks were stranded at Kahului Harbor with a bunch of rocks on them. The story goes that a DNLR person had come upon the guys loading up the trucks earlier in the Paukukalo area (about 5 minutes away from the ferry dock and at the mouth's edge of the 'Iao River), challenged them, and one of them whipped out a business card with Gov. Lingle's name on it, so he figured they were on official state business (duh) and let them go.

Based on what I have heard from the hearings so far, the biggest sticking point (also based on the amount of time that the PWF guy testified compared to all the other witnesses) seems to be the humpback whale issue and the speed and course of HSF during the prime breeding season.

Miulang

[LikaNui]

Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 6

And here it is, word for word, straight from KITV:

Hawaii Superferry officials said they are proud of their inspections for plants, animals and bugs that include popping trunks and engine hoods, which the state might soon require of Young Brothers as well.
"I think Superferry has just put the bar a little bit higher," said Carol Okada of the Department of Agriculture.

No ifs, maybes, or any other waffling qualifiers. A direct statement.
The anti-SuperFerry contingent hates that.

[joshuatree]

Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 6

Okay so here's a way to address the whale issue. Isn't it time that the state and all the marine entities plying their trade in the water simply collaborate to create a "safe" shipping lane? Passive sonar buoys to detect the presence of whales in a shipping lane. All boats such as the HSF can hook right up to the signals transmitted from the buoys. Viola! You got yourself a set of eyes that sees miles ahead so one can go full steam ahead with confidence.

As for undercarriages, having the vehicles go through an automated undercarriage power washer should suffice. The water can even be recycled in the washes to be green. But I like to see all the protesters put their money where their mouth is. I like to see the Sierra Club chip in. It would give their credibility about protecting the environment a boost.

[craig foo]

Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 6

woodman says: "... (we) still have to account for the balance between increased human traffic and increased infrastructure.
It seems extremely shortsighted to make allowances for a sudden increase in human traffic in small communities without giving adequate consideration to proper infrastructural development necessary to accommodated that increase.
Everyone needs to eat, sleep, poop, and travel, and in an increasingly litigious society there will of course be need for increases in emergency medical and legal services.
So it's not just a matter sending a huge shipload of people into a small community and accommodating only the ship, itself. The community should first be bolstered to absorb the increase. ... "


When you say " The community should first be bolstered to absorb the increase." it should be that Kauai taxpayers, taxdodgers, tax-cheats state and or federal, military families, tax examiners, taxidermists, everyone on Kauai, especially the tourist industry on Kauai though hardly more than Kauai residents, everyone should at least tell the state that if our security means a damn to the State they would fill the gap in funding to get the Kauai Police Department fully funded so as to pay for an adequately staffed, paid, trained police department that is required to police the island. What police force in the U.S. is adequately staffed, trained and supplied for protecting the communities which they serve? None? Kauai is no exception. Kauai has a new police chief. Surely he, or any other Kauai police chief, can only have increasing concern for the welfare of Kauai citizens as such relative well-being relates to Kauai becoming the northern terminus of a water-borne H-4. Surely the parks departments on Kauai are anticipating parked vehicles while campers from Oahu, Maui, wherevers "camp out" somewheres, with or without permits, with or without enough money to return to Oahu, with or without an intention to return to Oahu or wherevers, with or without legally registered/permitted weapons, with or without fill-in-the-blank....

Through having an Environmental Assessment take place, these community security issues could be addressed. When community concerns are sought and recorded on official record confirming or questioning claims by investor interests like the Superferries, such investors cannot later claim they were unaware of the logic that pointed to a future certainty when events unfold contrary to investors' promises and assurances.
2007-10-03 Wednesday, October 03, 2007 07:05:00 PM

[infinitypro]

Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 6

GOOD GRIEF. Infinity's reponse was about an item from a NEWS PROGRAM that aired tonight HERE IN HAWAII... it was NOT about the trial!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Infinity and I weren't talking about anyone's testimony. It was a news report from the Dept. of Agriculture where they praised the SuperFerry. Oh. Wait. Now I see why you changed the subject.

Ah yes. "Anecdotal reports." More commonly known as UNSUBSTANTIATED RUMORS.

And all in answering the wrong question.
*sigh*

Yes, the news report, and not the trial is what we were referring too.

MIULANG,

I read that you mentioned this: "The story goes that a DNLR person had come upon the guys loading up the trucks earlier in the Paukukalo area (about 5 minutes away from the ferry dock and at the mouth's edge of the 'Iao River), challenged them, and one of them whipped out a business card with Gov. Lingle's name on it, so he figured they were on official state business (duh) and let them go."

Was this reported somewhere? I've been surfing the 'net for a news reports as a follow up on this investigation and have only been able to come up with the original story, and the very limited testimony from the State Enforcement Officer Randy AWO.

[Miulang]

Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 6

Okay so here's a way to address the whale issue. Isn't it time that the state and all the marine entities plying their trade in the water simply collaborate to create a "safe" shipping lane? Passive sonar buoys to detect the presence of whales in a shipping lane. All boats such as the HSF can hook right up to the signals transmitted from the buoys. Viola! You got yourself a set of eyes that sees miles ahead so one can go full steam ahead with confidence.

As for undercarriages, having the vehicles go through an automated undercarriage power washer should suffice. The water can even be recycled in the washes to be green. But I like to see all the protesters put their money where their mouth is. I like to see the Sierra Club chip in. It would give their credibility about protecting the environment a boost.

The sonar buoys might work out well, but then the argument over who pays for the technology rears its ugly head. Should all ships chip in (including private boats)? Or just boats that go over 15 kts? NOAA determined the safe speed for larger ships when around whales is 15 kts or less.

If done on land, a power washer's contaminated water can be filtered. Like I said, I don't know if that green car wash on Hobron has the ability to wash undercarriages; all the automatic car washes around here can't.

Miulang

[LikaNui]

Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 6

No, it seems like a pretty simple fix to me (...) I think the idea is (...) But the invasive species lady didn't sound like (...) if all plants (...) and I suspect papaya plants (...) I think I read somewhere that HSF passengers (...) Whether there are DNLR inspectors assigned to check for this, I don't know. (...) The story goes that (...) Based on what I have heard from (...) seems to be the humpback whale issue

You know, the longer that kind of nonsense goes on, the more people realize that the anti-SuperFerry contingent is being hurt more than helped.
It's actually rather amusing, in a pathetic kind of way.

[infinitypro]

Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 6

Okay so here's a way to address the whale issue. Isn't it time that the state and all the marine entities plying their trade in the water simply collaborate to create a "safe" shipping lane? Passive sonar buoys to detect the presence of whales in a shipping lane. All boats such as the HSF can hook right up to the signals transmitted from the buoys. Viola! You got yourself a set of eyes that sees miles ahead so one can go full steam ahead with confidence.

As for undercarriages, having the vehicles go through an automated undercarriage power washer should suffice. The water can even be recycled in the washes to be green. But I like to see all the protesters put their money where their mouth is. I like to see the Sierra Club chip in. It would give their credibility about protecting the environment a boost.

Not an expert on whales, sonars, undercarriages or anything, except maybe common sense. And JT...it's a REASONABLE SOLUTION makes sense to common folk like me.