Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 6

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Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 6

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[LikaNui]

Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 6

I'm glad the Advertiser is finally doing some real investigative reporting on this onion called HSF. Unfortunately, the more layers of that onion you peel, the more hauna the smell becomes. It'll be interesting to see the documents that the newspaper is trying to obtain from MARAD.

Well, that's tweaking the article waaaaaaay out of perspective. The "documents" you mention are documents between the National Marine Fisheries Service, the Marine Mammal Commission, and the federal Maritime Administration (MARAD). There was absolutly NOTHING in the article mentioning seeking any documents from the SuperFerry folks. Zip, zilch, nada, NOTHING. Yet the "onion" comments boldfaced above imply otherwise.
In my ever-so-humble opinion, your post flagrantly and intentionally MISREPRESENTS the entire point of the article.

If that kind of endlessly continuing, false and misleading nonsense isn't considered disruptive and offensive to the other members of HT, then I can't imagine what is.

[Miulang]

Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 6

I'm glad the Advertiser is finally doing some real investigative reporting on this onion called HSF. Unfortunately, the more layers of that onion you peel, the more hauna the smell becomes. It'll be interesting to see the documents that the newspaper is trying to obtain from MARAD.

Another interesting little story in this morning's Advertiser that most people probably overlooked was one in the Transportation section detailing any plans the Army might have to use HSF to transport Stryker vehicles, as the anti-HSF folks have said would definitely happen. Perhaps they misinterpreted the DoD's comments like these:

The Army's manager for the Stryker brigade said last night there are no plans to move the combat vehicles between O'ahu and the Big Island on Hawaii Superferry but said the Army could consider the ferry as a commercial contractor in the future.

Ron Borne, transformation manager for U.S. Army Garrison, Hawai'i, said combat vehicles would be moved from O'ahu to the Big Island for training primarily on military transport vessels or commercial barges such as Young Brothers. He said the Superferry could conceivably bid for such work if it becomes available but is not now part of the Stryker brigade operations.

...Borne said he had heard comments that Superferry would like to move the Stryker brigade, which he believed were made in the context of strengthening the Superferry's perceived value and utility.

"I won't say that we would never use it, if it was available, but the Stryker issue doesn't depend on it," Borne said.

So if HSF can't be commercially viable, they conceivably could be used to transport Stryker vehicles between Honolulu and Pohakuloa.

Miulang

[oceanpacific]

Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 6

ZZ, information from someone with your experience and background is certainly much more credible than the braying from 3000 miles away. It's a case of NO CONTEST!

[zztype]

Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 6

Right on Web Masta (Blaine)!

I salute you!!

Auntie Lynn

*Waves Hi!* to Auntie Lynn

[1stwahine]

Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 6

The HSF will make quite a bit of noise in the water, too. Anything that size will put out a significant sound signature which will carry for miles out to sea. When the HSF starts running, any biologics will have plenty of advance notice as to its presence.

Right on Web Masta (Blaine)!

I salute you!!

Auntie Lynn

[zztype]

Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 6

3 comments:

The bank parking lot...

So the Bank of Hawaii didn't own the property under their parking lot? The state owned it? And the state sold it? Hmmm. Good for the state. I hope they got good money for selling THEIR OWN PROPERTY. Pua ting and shame on the bank for not securing their own parking lot and for relying on somebody else's property for customer parking!

Passive sonar...

I was a submarine sonar technician during my stint in the Navy. Passive sonar does not impact marine life. Passive sonar just "listens" to the sound in the water around the hydrophones.

Actually, the sonar doesn't listen. A human listens and can distinguish between mechanical and biological sound sources. The human reports presence of mechanical sound sources and, only occasionally, biological sound sources. The human (sonar technician) tracks the mechanical sound sources and constantly updates the control room on the possible source, position, track, bearing, approximate speed and course of those mechanical sounds.

Active sonar works by sending out audio pulses ("pings"), then analyzing the echoes that return. These are the ones that are alleged to interfere with whales and dolphins. (Not all of them. Only certain types of active sonar are alleged to have been associated with detrimental effects on marine mammals.)

Fish-finder sonar, as employed on most of the sport and commercial fishing boats that ply our waters, is active sonar. Most boats also use depth-finder navigation sonar, which is also active.

When you get down to it, EVERYTHING mechanical in the water puts out sound waves that travel very, very far through water. Most ships can be heard from many, many miles away, over the horizon! Whales can probably hear everything that a sonarman can hear, maybe more.

Large catamarans...

I read in the paper about anti-HSF testimony that said that a twin-hulled ship the size of HSF would be somehow more deadly to whales, which, it was surmised, might become "trapped" between the two hulls.

I also served as a sonar technician on the USS Pigeon, ASR21.



It was a large, twin-hulled submarine rescue vessel, approximately the size of HSF. We plied the waters of Southern California. It didn't normally run at projected HSF speeds, but it could get going if it needed to.

I spent a couple of years on that ship and never once did a whale, or any other marine mammal, become trapped between the hulls (that I was ever made aware of).

Marine mammals were aware of our presence long before we were aware of theirs. Dolphins would often swim alongside while we cruised the California waters. We would see whales occasionally in the distance, but they stayed clear of the ship. The ship probably made too much noise while running for their taste.

The HSF will make quite a bit of noise in the water, too. Anything that size will put out a significant sound signature which will carry for miles out to sea. When the HSF starts running, any biologics will have plenty of advance notice as to its presence.

[Miulang]

Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 6

There are not many parks, County or State, on Kauai and of what few there are, small as they are, fewer still allow overnight camping, and then only on weekends. The limited number of permits for overnight camping in designated parks are acquired in person on first come first serve basis. Local families nearly always exhaust the quota of available permits well before the dates for which the permits apply, especially on common holidays.

Maui has the same problem. There are only a couple of parks where camping is legal--Kanaha Beach and Hosmer Grove up in Kula...there's also cabins up at Polipoli, but that area was devastated by a couple of forest fires last year. There are cabins at the state park in Hana but you have to reserve them months in advance. The local homeless used to have an encampment right at Kahului Harbor (on the west pier) but that got shut down due to public health reasons. So most of the homeless have dispersed elsewhere (including Kanaha Beach, Waihee Beach and in Lahaina).

At some of the more popular beaches in Kihei/Wailea (like Big Beach), they shut the area down at night and have patrols to enforce the no camping rule. This is upsetting to the residents of the island, too, because they like to go camping on weekends. I suppose if you got desperate enough, you could "camp out" in the WalMart parking lot (on CONUS, the Walmarts that are open 24 hours allow people to park overnight in their campers).

Miulang

[Miulang]

Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 6

"There will probably be physical altercations..."

Ha! Where'd you get that fantasy from?

Have you ever witnessed the "traffic" from the ferry when it disembarked at Kahului?

Yes or no.

Well, I was there, and there was very little.

"Oh, but it was a Sunday."

Yeah, but I've been there on a Monday at lunchtime when FHB is stuffed. That branch causes a lot more traffic than the ferry could ever hope to.

The ferry disgorges at 9:30 a.m.

There's no heavy traffic at that time. Plain and simple.

I've been there, at that bank, at both times. Very recently.

Oh, and as for the restaurant, it's not very popular, so I wouldn't count that as a big worry.

And what else is there? A Century 21 office? Oh yeah, big traffic there...

No, the period of congestion will be between 7:30 a.m. and 11:30 a.m. when the ferry leaves again for Honolulu. And there is lots of traffic on Kaahumanu during the week at that time, enough for me to wonder if anybody works on Maui. My point about the bank parking is that it IS busy at that hour. As long as there are cops on the scene to manage traffic, there shouldn't be much of an issue. But if there are no cops monitoring the situation, tempers will flare (don't they already flare when people get stuck in traffic jams now?) And for the people who drive off the ferry, waiting in line for as long as they will have to if the mitigation of 3 cars per light cycle is enforced, there will be lots of impatience.

Dick: Your definition of heavy traffic is influenced by what you experience on Oahu. For the people of Maui, what they experience now is considered gridlock to them, even though it's inconsequential for both you and me.

Here is the traffic study that was prepared for HSF. In particular, check out Table 2 "2006 Midday Peak Hour Traffic Operations"

Miulang

[joshuatree]

Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 6

I expect that no one coming via Superferry to Kauai without prior arrangement for overnight accomodations are going to get permits to overnight in County or State parks on the day or night they arrive.

What about legally registered firearms and unregistered weapons arriving on Kauai via passengers' possessions on the Superferries, have you a concern about those weapons? Do you think Kauai citizens' concerns about such weapons and their intended use on Kauai are misplaced?

If no one coming via Superferry are going to get permits for parks on the day or night they arrive, then what's to worry? The system of permits is working and doing it's job.

Is there any Kauai County ordinance that is different from the state's regarding firearms? Otherwise, what is the problem?

[LikaNui]

Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 6

What about legally registered firearms and unregistered weapons arriving on Kauai via passengers' possessions on the Superferries, have you a concern about those weapons? Do you think Kauai citizens' concerns about such weapons and their intended use on Kauai are misplaced?

Yes it's misplaced. Rather than mere firearms (which of course most Oahu folks always take to the neighbor islands), Kauai residents should be far more concerned about Oahu residents taking nuclear weapons to Kauai on the SuperFerry!
And about your comment of the firearms "intended use"... what are we gonna do, use guns to stick up Bubba's Burgers for some french fries?
Gosh, you anti-SuperFerry folks sure know how to create credibility and convince folks to take your side.

Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 6

helen: "I am scratching my head on wondering about the logic of what is wrong with person A having a permit to camp at park B during the time period C?"

There are not many parks, County or State, on Kauai and of what few there are, small as they are, fewer still allow overnight camping, and then only on weekends. The limited number of permits for overnight camping in designated parks are acquired in person on first come first serve basis. Local families nearly always exhaust the quota of available permits well before the dates for which the permits apply, especially on common holidays.

What is wrong with having a permit to camp? Nothing, if you can get one during weekday business hours for the period a park is open for camping. You can hardly appreciate the smallness and overuse of Kauai's few parks until you visit them on weekends during their use as birthday and family celebrations.

I expect that no one coming via Superferry to Kauai without prior arrangement for overnight accomodations are going to get permits to overnight in County or State parks on the day or night they arrive.

What about legally registered firearms and unregistered weapons arriving on Kauai via passengers' possessions on the Superferries, have you a concern about those weapons? Do you think Kauai citizens' concerns about such weapons and their intended use on Kauai are misplaced?

[cynsaligia]

Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 6

As for blaming this on HSF, the trucks were at the docks but considering the ferry never had a chance to continue service, one can only wonder if HSF would or would not have caught the trucks. To blame HSF is the equivalent of blaming AA or UA for having their planes hijacked in 9/11.

took the words right out of my mouth but put it better than i would have said it.

[LikaNui]

Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 6

I'm not even sure if they can convict the people of rock stealing because the rocks never left the island anyway.

So using your logic there, if someone steals my car but only takes it from Kaneohe to Kailua, it's not theft, eh? It would only be theft if they took my car to another island but it's okay if they steal it but keep it on the same island, according to your logic.
Get real. The rocks were removed from their existing location, and without permission. That is theft, plain and simple. The truck(s) could have been parked only 100' away from the property, but it's still theft.
To quote the wise and revered philosopher Homer Simpson, "DOH."

[dick]

Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 6

The bank is one of the busiest branches on the island, and without the cops there to direct traffic, there will probably be physical altercations as peoples' patience runs thin on both sides.

"There will probably be physical altercations..."

Ha! Where'd you get that fantasy from?

Have you ever witnessed the "traffic" from the ferry when it disembarked at Kahului?

Yes or no.

Well, I was there, and there was very little.

"Oh, but it was a Sunday."

Yeah, but I've been there on a Monday at lunchtime when FHB is stuffed. That branch causes a lot more traffic than the ferry could ever hope to.

The ferry disgorges at 9:30 a.m.

There's no heavy traffic at that time. Plain and simple.

I've been there, at that bank, at both times. Very recently.

Oh, and as for the restaurant, it's not very popular, so I wouldn't count that as a big worry.

And what else is there? A Century 21 office? Oh yeah, big traffic there...