Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Why are there no magnet schools in Hawaii?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Why are there no magnet schools in Hawaii?

    I don't get it - everywhere I've been, there have been public schools for the academically gifted and I don't find any in Hawaii. You would think that there would be but I don't get it. The education department better get their asses in gear- I'm sick and tired of the crap public education out there for the students. If this state is supposed to be about Ohana - prove it by bringing the best education to our children! Investing in the education is true love and care for our children not just talk!!! I'm just steaming because the education department is so stupid and inept!

  • #2
    Re: Why are there no magnet schools in Hawaii?

    I'd like to hear about your struggles. Have you been trying to get your kids into a GT program but there isn't one in your area?

    The quick answer about magnet schools is this: We haven't had any because we (so far) haven't needed any. A magnet school is a school targeted at students with specialized needs or interests, designed in part to draw them (the way magnets attract specific materials) out of their own school districts and into others. The reason magnet schools exist is that in every state except Hawaii, school districts receive their funding from property taxes. This means that schools in the middle of affluent neighborhoods receive more per child than schools in poor communities. It also means that students from one end of town stay on that end of town unless there's a reason for them not to. Magnet school attempt to draw students from varying communities into more socially mixed environments than can often be found naturally. These schools can be specialized for the needs of gifted students, or for students who have interests in performing arts or other areas. They do not have to be specifically about giftedness, for this implies that gifted students are more likely to come from affluent neighborhoods than poor neighborhoods.

    So there are basically three very specific reasons we don't have magnet schools here. First, the entire state is administered as one school system, meaning that (ideally) students in Kahala aren't going to the kind of school their district can afford while students on Molokai are going to the kind of school THEIRs can afford. Yes, I know it doesn't ACTUALLY work out this way, but it's a good, lofty ambition that I think is worth trying to hang onto. Second, there is far less need for the mixing of ethnicities here when this state is already pretty dang ethnically diverse. Yes, I know you'll see certain kinds of last names much more at Farrington than you would at Kalaheo, but even the least ethnically diverse student bodies in Hawaii are far, far, far more diverse than the kinds of schools in districts where magnet schools are usually created. Finally, there's the issue of space. Right now, each community has pretty much as many high schools as it can handle except where certain barriers (such as fifty miles of ocean) prevent more shuffling.

    This may be changing, though. Some small schools on neighbor islands are in danger of being combined with larger schools. It has been discussed as recently as last week that the vacated campuses could be used as new magnet schools that will get students out of areas like Hilo and into areas like Laupahoehoe. Somehow, I don't think this is what you have in mind, but the title of this thread does ask about magnet schools.

    Some schools are not officially magnet schools but serve families similarly. I know families that went through great pains to make sure their kids got district exemptions so they could attend Pearl City (for band), Castle (for drama), or Waianae (for football). This isn't quite the same thing, but it is relevant to what you're asking about.

    Now, if you're talking about gifted/talented programs, we do have them here. Many participants on HT are the product of GT programs in Hawaii's public schools, but I confess that it's a subject I haven't spoken of with my public school colleagues in quite some time, so I'd like to hear what you're going through. Have you found that schools in your area don't have GT programs? Or do you really want the complete removal of your kids from the entire campuses of your local schools, rather than just to be part of GT programs within larger schools?

    I teach at a school whose target student is gifted, and who has had difficulty in other schools. As you probably know, many of our most gifted students have needs that are so specialized that simply accelerated programs don't meet those needs and often result in alienation or failure. Mine is not a public school, though, and it sounds like that is what you're looking for.

    So let's talk. It sounds like you're frustrated AND irate. I'd like to hear about it.
    Last edited by scrivener; June 14, 2008, 09:24 PM.
    But I'm disturbed! I'm depressed! I'm inadequate! I GOT IT ALL! (George Costanza)
    GrouchyTeacher.com

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Why are there no magnet schools in Hawaii?

      Okay, nevermind. Scriv said it already.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Why are there no magnet schools in Hawaii?

        Originally posted by rosiev View Post
        [...]I'm sick and tired of the crap public education out there for the students.
        Rosiev...this sentence ("out there") makes it sound like you and your children don't live in Hawaii.
        If this state is supposed to be about Ohana - prove it by bringing the best education to our children![...]
        This sentences makes it sounds like you do!

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Why are there no magnet schools in Hawaii?

          Originally posted by Da Rolling Eye View Post
          Okay, nevermind. Scriv said it already.
          Dang it, don't delete your post! You said a lot of stuff I didn't touch on. Aaaargh. That really annoys me, DRE! Please consider reposting the stuff you had up!
          But I'm disturbed! I'm depressed! I'm inadequate! I GOT IT ALL! (George Costanza)
          GrouchyTeacher.com

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Why are there no magnet schools in Hawaii?

            Wow, thanks for the insight, scrivener.

            I'm curious what DRE wrote...
            "By concealing your desires, you may trick people into being cruel about the wrong thing." --Steven Aylett, Fain the Sorcerer
            "You gotta get me to the tall corn." --David Mamet, Spartan
            "
            Amateurs talk technology, professionals talk conditions." --(unknown)

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Why are there no magnet schools in Hawaii?

              Originally posted by scrivener View Post
              Dang it, don't delete your post! You said a lot of stuff I didn't touch on. Aaaargh. That really annoys me, DRE! Please consider reposting the stuff you had up!
              Okay. Sorry. I was considering going to bed cause I was taking so long getting my thoughts straight.

              Kden. Here's what the wife told me about GT classes, as our daughter is in one at her school. Funding for the GT program comes through the school's Special Education fund. If the school has a high number of Spec Ed kids, that's where the funding has to go as dictated by the state BOE. SO...that means our daughter only goes every other day for 45 minutes and gets taught by the librarian.

              Funding also depends on passing scores for No Child Left Behind. If the school fails to make the minimum requirements, the state BOE can withold these funds. Our school has failed in previous years and finally made the minimum this past year. Now, these scores also have much to do with even Spec Ed kids who can't even write their names. All they have to do is show up for the testing so that the school can factor them in for the scoring. Unfortunately, many of the Spec Ed parents don't follow through for one reason or another.

              Now to compare, I already told about my daughter's GT class. My cousin's daughter goes to a school in Pearl City that offers a whole curriculum geared for GT students. That's being enrolled in a GT program for every day, all day for the whole year. Totally separate from the other students.

              Mil Mauka also has an excellent GT program, but they can also afford to have a choir, drama classes and a few other extra curricular activities.

              Needless to say, these schools have long waiting lists for district exemptions.

              Some options you could look into:

              Supplimental classes such as Kumon.
              Charter schools in your area.

              Try looking at private schools. Most are not extravagantly expensive as schools such as Punahou or St. Louis. All private schools offer financial aid. The caveat, we learned, is that FA has to be applied for AFTER your child has been accepted. For us, FA was approved after having paid a couple of monthly payments at full tuition. Also, expect to spend up to $1000 in addition for incidentals such as application fees, deposits, books and supplies and uniforms. Lunches are also an additional expense as is transportation, if needed.

              I don't know if I missed any previous points, but I think that was the gist of it.

              I won't comment about our inept BOE. The stress that causes can knock off a decade of one's life, dontcha know.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Why are there no magnet schools in Hawaii?

                Thanks for the info, DRE!


                Originally posted by Da Rolling Eye View Post
                Try looking at private schools. Most are not extravagantly expensive as schools such as Punahou or St. Louis.
                I recommend you think twice before sending your kids to a private school you can barely afford, with classmates who enjoy a higher standard of living. You don't want your child to be the "poor kid" who makes an easy target for teasing. Coming out of school with a healthy self esteem is just as important as having a book education.

                Of course if your child has a strong sense of self worth, is very charismatic, or has a real good friend, then this won't be as much of an issue; but if they're bright AND sensitive, you should give it more thought.
                Last edited by MyopicJoe; June 14, 2008, 11:10 PM.
                "By concealing your desires, you may trick people into being cruel about the wrong thing." --Steven Aylett, Fain the Sorcerer
                "You gotta get me to the tall corn." --David Mamet, Spartan
                "
                Amateurs talk technology, professionals talk conditions." --(unknown)

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Why are there no magnet schools in Hawaii?

                  I just re-read my post and realized I didn't really explain what school funding has to do with wanting to draw students from affluent neighborhoods into less-affluent neighborhoods.

                  In areas with school-voucher systems, students take their share of the funding with them to whatever school they attend, meaning that if one district allocates $8000 per student, the $8000 goes to the school that student chooses to attend, even if that's a private school (thus offsetting or completely covering tuition). One thing a magnet school does is get some of those vouchers into poorer communities so that less-affluent students (whose own per-student allotments will be much less) can also attend specialized schools, which their communities might not otherwise be able to afford. This helps affluent students because they get to attend, say, schools that specialize in biological sciences. It helps less-affluent students because it allows them to attend schools (with state-of-the-art facilities and equipment) their communities would otherwise be unable to afford.

                  Under our system, for reasons I DID manage somehow to explain above, this kind of thing is supposed to be unnecessary.

                  Whew.
                  But I'm disturbed! I'm depressed! I'm inadequate! I GOT IT ALL! (George Costanza)
                  GrouchyTeacher.com

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Why are there no magnet schools in Hawaii?

                    Let me also chime in to say that Scriv and DRE have very eloquently stated why there are no public schools exclusively for the gifted-and-talented students in Hawaii. Because if I answered the question, it would have been ineloquent. Like "been there, done that!"

                    Let me explain. In the 1930s, there was a growing demand from certain influential and elite families living in the Territory of Hawaii to have public schools which would primarily cater to their children. They called it English-standard schools. Lincoln Elementary was the first one. Roosevelt High School followed a couple of years later. To gain admission to those schools, you had to pass a rigorous examination testing for proficiency in English. Not surprisingly, such standards heavily favored a certain ethnic group. (Duhh, guess who?) But there were a small sprinkling of ambitious students coming from immigrant backgrounds.

                    Basically, these were the public school versions of Punahou for many years. But the DOE abolished the English-standard admission policy in 1960. So if you're looking for a public school in Hawaii that is exclusively for the "cream of the crop," you're about a half-century out of luck.

                    Nowadays, public schools are home to specialized learning centers or academies. So for example, if you had a child who is interested in the performing arts, they could apply and gain entrance to Kaimuki or Castle High Schools, even though they do not live in those schools' respective districts.
                    Last edited by Frankie's Market; June 14, 2008, 11:09 PM.
                    This post may contain an opinion that may conflict with your opinion. Do not take it personal. Polite discussion of difference of opinion is welcome.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Why are there no magnet schools in Hawaii?

                      Our kid got into a GT program in elementary school and was really annoyed by having to miss some of her favorite classes just to go do GT things with the GT group.

                      She didn't make the GT cut at Mililani Mauka Middle (or she took a dive?) and was secretly happy because the kids in that program appeared (to her) to have a bunch of extra work for no apparent benefit.

                      She almost missed Mililani High School's GT test but now she's glad she made it. The kids in the GT classes are more interested in learning, and that makes a big difference when they have to do group projects. Many high-school "student-athletes" (an oxymoron) spend so much time at varsity/JV practice (or on the game bus on weeknights) that they don't have time to participate in group projects, let alone do their share or their own homework, and the GT classes have fewer of these overscheduled students. The GT kids also get to do/see more interesting curriculum because they have the math/reading skills to work through it.

                      The AP program, however, appears to be an arms race. Colleges love 'em, teachers get extra training/certification to teach 'em, and kids feel coerced to boost their transcripts. Some of the kids take three or even four AP classes where the teachers announce (with serious faces) that they'll each hand out 3-4 hours of reading/homework per night. At an AP class brief one of a teacher's own students announced, in front of that teacher as well as all the wannabes & parents, "________ is a Dementor whose class will suck the soul out of your life." The teacher's other students laughed in agreement, and so did the teacher... we parents had to go three rounds with our kid that night to get her to "cut back" to only two AP classes in her schedule. Each time she left us to discuss her decision with that teacher, she came back saying "No, I gotta take this course". We finally had to speak with the teacher ourselves. Somehow the two of us parents were able to convince the teacher that the world would not screech to a halt if our kid took the "regular" class.

                      But I highly recomend Kumon math & reading. Huge difference, especially when those kids encounter the PSAT/SAT.
                      Youth may be wasted on the young, but retirement is wasted on the old.
                      Live like you're dying, invest like you're immortal.
                      We grow old if we stop playing, but it's never too late to have a happy childhood.
                      Forget about who you were-- discover who you are.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Why are there no magnet schools in Hawaii?

                        My child is in the GT program at Koko Head School. A few weeks ago, our complex SCC (School Community Council) met at Kaiser HS. SCC board members from each school attended, elementary, middle and HS.

                        This year, Niu Valley Intermediate is conducting a dry run of the International Baccalaureate Program, which will be officially underway for the 2009-2010 school year. Every child, special needs through GT, will be enrolled in the program. Because it is a 5-year program, Kaiser HS is getting on board for students to participate if they qualify. At that point, it will not be mandatory, and students can join the program if they come from other schools and are interested and have the grades to indicate they can carry the heavier academic load. The advantage of this program is not only its academic challenge, but, we are told, it gives students an advantage when it comes to college admissions and scholarships.

                        As a result of these developments, the principal at Hahaione Elementary indicated that she'd like to have the program in her school. I'm not sure when but my impression is that it will happen. Now that school will be as terrific as my kids' school! (shameless plug!)

                        Part of our discussion at the SCC meeting, which includes school administrators, teachers, community members and parents, is that we welcomed the fact that the Kaiser Complex could become a magnet for students around Oahu.

                        The IBO program is expensive, and teachers have to be on board for participation as it's not only extra work for students, but for teachers as well. So far, at Niu and Hahaione, and at Kaiser, teachers are enthusiastic about the program. Teachers have to attend seminars on the mainland, some lasting several weeks, so that they can be certified to teach the program's curriculum.

                        It is my understanding that Campbell HS and Mid-Pacific are IBO schools.
                        Aloha from Lavagal

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Why are there no magnet schools in Hawaii?

                          Originally posted by Nords View Post
                          But I highly recomend Kumon math & reading. Huge difference, especially when those kids encounter the PSAT/SAT.
                          Even at the primary level, our daughter's aptitude in both skyrocketed and she was far ahead of her classmates. The down side is she got bored very easily and she loves to talk. You know what that leads to.

                          Originally posted by scrivener View Post
                          In areas with school-voucher systems, students take their share of the funding with them to whatever school they attend, meaning that if one district allocates $8000 per student, the $8000 goes to the school that student chooses to attend, even if that's a private school (thus offsetting or completely covering tuition).
                          When we were looking and applying for the private schools out this way, we were led to believe that Hawai'i has no voucher system. Shoots! I can't remember where there was also a discussion about it, but it came down to private school parents are crap out of luck. If there indeed is a voucher system, I'd like to know how to tap into it.

                          Mel got accepted to 2 of the private schools out this way. We tried one for 6 months and several thousand dollars, but ended up pulling her for our own reasons. We'd love to be able to send her to the other one, but the tuition is higher and even with financial aid it would put too much of a burden on us. That voucher system would pay her whole tuition at this school.

                          Btw, during the application process we get to sit in on classes at these schools. For the most part, we found the students to be enthusiastic, well mannered and eager to meet new friends. Most of the parents are hardworking and take an active interest in their children's education. Bullying and other rude behavior is not tolerated, the offenders ARE punished and parents called in for conference. It's not taken lightly and kids do get booted if the disruptive behavior continues.

                          I don't know if it's because the schools are out this way, but we have not seen much by way of "attitudes" because we're not rich. In fact, most of the parents of the students are all working class and below and are only interested in getting the best for their kids that the state can't provide. Not for show.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Why are there no magnet schools in Hawaii?

                            Originally posted by lavagal View Post
                            Part of our discussion at the SCC meeting, which includes school administrators, teachers, community members and parents, is that we welcomed the fact that the Kaiser Complex could become a magnet for students around Oahu.
                            Ah, thanks for sharing, Lavagal. It's interesting to hear what goes on at other SCC meetings. If that IBP goes well, I hope it reaches our complex by the time our girls hit middle school.


                            Originally posted by Da Rolling Eye View Post
                            Btw, during the application process we get to sit in on classes at these schools. For the most part, we found the students to be enthusiastic, well mannered and eager to meet new friends. Most of the parents are hardworking and take an active interest in their children's education. Bullying and other rude behavior is not tolerated, the offenders ARE punished and parents called in for conference. It's not taken lightly and kids do get booted if the disruptive behavior continues.
                            Great job, scouting out the school instead of blindly throwing your daughter into it. I hope the voucher thing pans out for your family. Keep us informed!
                            "By concealing your desires, you may trick people into being cruel about the wrong thing." --Steven Aylett, Fain the Sorcerer
                            "You gotta get me to the tall corn." --David Mamet, Spartan
                            "
                            Amateurs talk technology, professionals talk conditions." --(unknown)

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Why are there no magnet schools in Hawaii?

                              Originally posted by rosiev View Post
                              I don't get it - everywhere I've been, there have been public schools for the academically gifted and I don't find any in Hawaii. You would think that there would be but I don't get it. The education department better get their asses in gear- I'm sick and tired of the crap public education out there for the students. If this state is supposed to be about Ohana - prove it by bringing the best education to our children! Investing in the education is true love and care for our children not just talk!!! I'm just steaming because the education department is so stupid and inept!
                              My daughter just graduated from a public high school. In her class of 350 students, over 35% had GPAs of 3.0 or higher and 12 valedictorians. Traditional public schools, Hawaiian immersion schools and PCS (public charter schools) – across the isles there exists a variety of public-funded educational models populated with people who care about our kids and students who thrive in each.

                              As for my daughter's high school, its boundaries contain the largest Hawaiian homestead subdivisions, the largest low-income housing projects and many working class neighborhoods. Geeks, goths, mokes, mahu, kanakz, country; the are all represented in the cum laude bracket.

                              "Crap public education" is worse than a blanket statement. It's a myth.

                              pax

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X