White Children In Hawaii Schools?

[Bard]

Re: White Children In Hawaii Schools?

Learning it is one thing - trying to speak it when you didn't grow up with it is quite another. I've learned a LOT of pidgin, enough to understand it when I hear or read it, but speaking it? Nah. (Well, maybe lilobit, but it's purely transactional, li'dat.)

Yeah, I agree with you. My comment above was in response to the fact that the original topic I posted about this on, I got confused with someone who wanted to "go local as fast as possible", while I was just trying to ask about learning it in general. (I like studying languages, whether I intend to try speaking them or not.) Essentially our favorite Mr Kimo and others told me to stop trying to learn about Pidgin at all (posts 22-23). Anyway, the whole experience there soured me to the idea. These days I actually try to make sure I don't use any in conversations on here even if it was something I was going to say anyway...

[Pua'i Mana'o]

Re: White Children In Hawaii Schools?

most people wouldn't articulate it like I will, but for me, the issue of using pidgin has more to do with how the speaker learned to emit sounds rather than skin color/ethnicity/city of birth.

Pidgin is all about the base of the throat. Resonates from the chest. But if someone was raised to speak from behind the nose, or crisp diction giving each consonant and vowel its full-flavored due, then it....just doesn't sound right.

My favorite example to pick on is Andy Bumatai. He might be a local guy. But his pidgin is terrible. Too much emphasis on each and every sound, which is very unpidgin. He was trained through his craft to hyper-ennunciate, whereas pidgin is fast; accused sometimes of sounding garbled. But therein lies its beauty. Poor Andy; he is never be able to bus' da pidgin without sounding caricaturish. Watch how he talks and notice how full-bodied his words flow out. He uses the front of his mouth too much, instead of the base of his throat. That is anti-pidgin in nature.

There is a lady whose grandkids are my kids' classmates. She has lived here for 30+ years. Married to a Hawaiian man on the homestead, which is where they live. She knows pidgin and uses it all the time, which drives me a tad apesh*t as she has never been able to shake her tight-nosed upstate NewYawk emissions.

[Kahalu'u Kid]

Re: White Children In Hawaii Schools?

I think you're right Pua'i. I never thought about it that way. And regarding Andy, yup, he wouldn't be able to speak pidgen to save his life. He speaks pretty good English when he's doing interviews and stuff, though. Sunny Garcia too--surprisingly articulate.

I don't understand why so many people are anti-pidgen, though. I've heard lots of people say it makes us sound dumb. Whatever! There's definitely a time and place for it, but it's still a BIG part of our culture here that I think it should be celebrated. Pidgen to da MAX!

[AlaskaMan]

Re: White Children In Hawaii Schools?

I think the topic shifted.


All in all great advise. I'm sure the kids will pick up the language quick. I'll need to get a book or something. I thank you all for the great support and suggestions.

[Pua'i Mana'o]

Re: White Children In Hawaii Schools?

I think the topic shifted.


All in all great advise. I'm sure the kids will pick up the language quick. I'll need to get a book or something. I thank you all for the great support and suggestions.

in fairness, the thread had to shift. What else is there to say? Frankly no one on this board can effectively assuage your fears. We can only wish you luck, peace and happiness.

[Pomai]

Re: White Children In Hawaii Schools?

I don't understand why so many people are anti-pidgen, though. I've heard lots of people say it makes us sound dumb. Whatever! There's definitely a time and place for it, but it's still a BIG part of our culture here that I think it should be celebrated. Pidgen to da MAX!

I totally agree on the time and place and culture part. Very important to preserve it.

On another note, the term "Pidgin" has to be the most misspelled word on Hawaii Threads (or anywhere). Most common one being "Pigeon" (the bird). Within this thread alone there's "Pigen" and now "Pidgen".

AlaskaMan, my sister's family has a similar concern to yours about moving (back) here, as her kids are half-Polish from the dad. They look and talk "haole" all the way. But their concern isn't so much the kids being treated "bad" as "haole's", but the "bad influence" the kids might be exposed to.. namely Crystal Meth or "ice". Something that's not a known problem in their neck of the woods. At least, not nearly as much as it's known to be here in Hawaii.

[1stwahine]

Re: White Children In Hawaii Schools?

On another note, the term "Pidgin" has to be the most misspelled word on Hawaii Threads (or anywhere). Most common one being "Pigeon" (the bird). Within this thread alone there's "Pigen" and now "Pidgen".

HAHAHAHAHA

I'm guilty! I've always spelled it 'Pigeon' like the bird!

Now I know. I learn something everyday.

Auntie Lynn

[kamuelakea]

Re: White Children In Hawaii Schools?

My favorite example to pick on is Andy Bumatai. He might be a local guy. But his pidgin is terrible. Too much emphasis on each and every sound, which is very unpidgin.

Thats because Andy Bumatai is from Walnut Creek, California. Raised there until he was something like intermediate school age.

That is also probably why he was able to see humor in so many things that those of us who were born and raised here couldn't see.

[1stwahine]

Re: White Children In Hawaii Schools?

Thats because Andy Bumatai is from Walnut Creek, California. Raised there until he was something like intermediate school age.

That is also probably why he was able to see humor in so many things that those of us who were born and raised here couldn't see.

Eh! Das not fair Kamuelakea!!! I wuz born and raised hea ~ I see Humor since the day I wuz BORN!

Auntie Lynn

[alohabear]

Re: White Children In Hawaii Schools?

I don't understand why so many people are anti-pidgen, though. I've heard lots of people say it makes us sound dumb. Whatever! There's definitely a time and place for it, but it's still a BIG part of our culture here that I think it should be celebrated. Pidgen to da MAX!

It's not that they're anti-pidgen, it's that a lot of people aren't not you and can't 'turn it off" . In the classroom is no place for it.
Back on topic, (Public)Schools prepare children for the REAL world. What kind of adults will your kids grow up to be if you teach them to fear other races. Haole kids get picked on just as much as say; Japanese kids in school . Like in life just deal with it.

[PoiBoy]

Re: White Children In Hawaii Schools?

I think this thread has a horrible topic title.

[alohabear]

Re: White Children In Hawaii Schools?

I think this thread has a horrible topic title.

Not as bad as "Kill Haole Day"

[sinjin]

Re: White Children In Hawaii Schools?

I think this thread has a horrible topic title.

Do you have children?

[Pua'i Mana'o]

Re: White Children In Hawaii Schools?

Do you have children?

I have children. FWIW, the title made me wince and I clicked on it anyway.

[sinjin]

Re: White Children In Hawaii Schools?

I have children. FWIW, the title made me wince and I clicked on it anyway.

Could you articulate in one sentence what about it makes you wince?