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Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 6

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  • Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 6

    The fact is, Lingle's description of who we are may be outdated; what we saw is perhaps exactly the kind of people we're becoming ...
    I've been concerned about this for some time, and I think I blame the importance of sports in pop culture, not to mention this country's own history as the underdog who won its freedom from the British Empire.

    On the one hand, we like to think we are peaceful, loving people. On the other, we glorify people who stand up for themselves, who demand to be heard, who "refuse to lose," and who "fight to the end." Our own local collegiate football team treats each game like a battle, preparing for it with a war-chant, and we think it's awesome.

    I am as annoyed with the Kauai protesters as anyone, but part of me thinks it's exactly the kind of thing we Americans (yes, even we Americans in Hawaii) always encourage. Stand up to the oppression. Let your voice be heard. Be united in your resistance. If the Kauai people know they are right (and they appear to) should they stand quietly by while the government does whatever it wants?

    We have stopped saying "And the winner is..." at the Academy Awards because it implies that there's something wrong with losing. We have watched report-card grades inflated to the point of meaninglessness because C means average, and average is not good enough. We value individuality (be who you are, no matter what people think!) but we beat it down if we're uncomfortable with it.

    As a peace-loving man, I have my manliness called into question all the time, because yes, I do refuse to fight for myself when I think I'm being wronged, preferring peace to violence. The result is that I can look at myself in the mirror with a clear conscience, but the other result is that I'm the loser.

    Being the loser is unacceptable in our culture today, and the Kauai protesters are merely expressing that. If they try to work things out peacefully, they think they will lose and that they won't have done everything they can to stand up for what they believe in their hearts to be right.

    I'm surprised things haven't come to blows already. But then, this isn't over.
    Last edited by scrivener; September 26, 2007, 09:33 AM. Reason: "Show a little faith; there's magic in the night . . ."
    But I'm disturbed! I'm depressed! I'm inadequate! I GOT IT ALL! (George Costanza)
    GrouchyTeacher.com

  • #2
    Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

    Originally posted by GeckoGeek View Post
    Refresh my memory here. Which island passed the anti-big box law to block Wal-Mart? That can't be anti-business, can it? Or what about the repeated pattern in Hawaii of people who get the needed permits and then get shut down at the last minute because of protests?

    Sorry, given the intense emotion attached to the HSF, I have a problem believing the line "we just want an EIS - if we just get a EIS, then we'll be happy. Really."

    No, the EIS is just a talking point. It's really all about the politics of "no".
    The Big Island and Maui are also looking at resolutions to limit the size of big boxes. They're not saying they can't come, but they are saying they don't want establishments with huge footprints. And if the big box companies decide that they can't make a profit from having a smaller store, too bad. Think about all the little businesses who lose money when a big box comes to town. Is that fair to those people? The people of Hawai'i rant about monopolies and duopolies. That is exactly what will happen if small businesses are run out of town by the big boxes.

    Your second point is valid, but what it points to is the systemic problem of loosey goosey interpretations of current laws and variances to suit certain corporations or individuals with enough clout (i.e., cash and political influence) to circumvent said laws. The ones who get shut down are the ones who were given variances and are being stymied by legal efforts of individuals to enforce the laws.

    Someone on Kaua'i pointed out that their YMCA or YWCA in Lihue had to get an EA for a new pool complex they wanted to build that would cost $33 million (and that's a Kaua'i county issue), and yet the HSF, which is a statewide issue, didn't have to get one? Where's the fairness in that?

    The new biofuel company on Maui voluntarily agreed to do an EA. That could have statewide implications because some of the fuel produced could be used by HECO. Is it fair that Blue Planet offered to do an EA but the State said HSF didn't need to do one?

    There's a big brouhaha going on on Maui now over illegal vacation rentals. All of a sudden, after years of looking the other way, the County has decided that illegal vacation rentals are now going to be shut down. Yes, quite a few homeowners will be penalized and may even lose their homes because they were counting on that extra income from illegal vacation rentals to help pay their exorbitant mortgages. But they knew they were breaking the law, so is it fair for them to complain? In some cases, they do have a legitimate gripe, because the County apparently was very stingy in giving out permits for vacation rentals in the first place. But many of those people, assuming that the County wasn't going to do anything to them, never even bothered to try to get licensed. And now they want to complain?

    Also on Maui, it takes most individuals years to get permits for water for new residences, and yet high powered deverlopers get water meters handed to them on a regular basis. Is that fair?

    I seriously doubt A&B is going to be able to get past the Maui County Planning Commission with its plans to turn those unused ag lands into gentleman's estates without some serious problems with both the County and the community (same is true on Kaua'i). HSF and the drought on Maui and the rapid overdevelopment on Kaua'i are causing even some usually complacent folks on those islands to sit up and take notice. The infrastructure on all the islands are barely able to support the current populations; without adequate planning, how is the infrastructure supposed to support any more people?

    If you have laws on the books, either enforce them across the board or get rid of them. That's why I think the no smoking law in Hawai'i is stupid if there are no rules in place to enforce it.

    Miulang
    Last edited by Miulang; September 26, 2007, 10:05 AM.
    "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

      Originally posted by scrivener View Post
      I am as annoyed with the Kauai protesters as anyone, but part of me thinks it's exactly the kind of thing we Americans (yes, even we Americans in Hawaii) always encourage. Stand up to the oppression. Let your voice be heard. Be united in your resistance. If the Kauai people know they are right (and they appear to) should they stand quietly by while the government does whatever it wants?
      The problem is "rules of engagement". There's a right way to stand up and a wrong way. The TV news coverage showed the wrong way - obscenities, and pounding on the cars of passengers.

      The right way would be more along the lines of a human chain across the road. Or like Maui, take it to the courts.

      I've said it before and I'll say it again - whatever those protesters are trying to protect, they are loosing from the inside though their anger. It shows in their actions.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

        Originally posted by scrivener View Post
        As a peace-loving man, I have my manliness called into question all the time, because yes, I do refuse to fight for myself when I think I'm being wronged, preferring peace to violence. The result is that I can look at myself in the mirror with a clear conscience, but the other result is that I'm the loser.
        "Violence is the last resort of the incompetent." - Isaac Asimov.

        Me and my ol' scribbler buddy, Isaac - we're in your camp, Scrivener.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

          "Violence is the last resort of the incompetent." - Isaac Asimov.

          That would hardly mean that Hawaii State Government or the U.S. government are compentent just because violence is not their last resort. These so-called democratic governments resort to manipulating courts, threats of force and use of force not as last resorts but as a result of their being fundamentally undemocratic, enablers of US corporations dominion over the citizenry, fundamentally unrepresentative of the people because they are fundamentally representative of US corporations. They are governments which enable and thrive on their purposefully dysfuntional popular democracy which is a consequence of their incompetence to stand up against Corporate America, to stand up for the people whose governments they are supposed to belong to instead of belong to Corporate America.
          These governments' last resort would be the use of their elections systems to truly reflect the will of the immediately impacted people of government/corporation designs on such peoples' communities and lives.
          Last edited by craig foo; September 26, 2007, 10:23 AM. Reason: spelling and rewording

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          • #6
            Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

            Originally posted by GeckoGeek View Post
            The problem is "rules of engagement". There's a right way to stand up and a wrong way. The TV news coverage showed the wrong way - obscenities, and pounding on the cars of passengers.
            I was kind of wondering about this, the cars that was being pounded were these cars just arrived on the SuperFerry or were these cars about to leave on the SuperFerry?

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

              Originally posted by helen View Post
              the cars that was being pounded
              Just a reminder that in addition to the pounding (and the yelling obscenities, etc.), there was also the image shown around the world of the Kauai idiot squatting down and letting the air out of the tires.
              Carry on.
              .
              .

              That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

                Originally posted by Miulang View Post
                Someone on Kaua'i pointed out that their YMCA or YWCA in Lihue had to get an EA for a new pool complex they wanted to build that would cost $33 million (and that's a Kaua'i county issue), and yet the HSF, which is a statewide issue, didn't have to get one? Where's the fairness in that?
                Correction: Found out it was the YWCA in Lihue and the cost was $3.3 million, which makes a $40 million expense for the State look even worse. New blogger to note for the Kaua'i perspective: Joan Conrow, former stringer for the Advertiser who was outted by someone as a writer who had contributed a story to the Sierra Club's magazine years ago and who lost her job at the Advertiser because of it and her blog.

                Miulang
                Last edited by Miulang; September 26, 2007, 02:18 PM.
                "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

                  Originally posted by joshuatree View Post
                  So why is it the main thrust of the argument against HSF is directed against Oahuians and the incessant fear of taking Opihi, fish, and bringing in drugs?
                  So what if they bring drugs? The drugs don't hurt anything. They are only a problem if people use them. Just don't buy or use them. End of problem.
                  You can apply any terms to any situation to suit your perspective.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

                    Originally posted by Fritz View Post
                    So what if they bring drugs? The drugs don't hurt anything. They are only a problem if people use them. Just don't buy or use them. End of problem.
                    Wat? DRUGS are a PROBLEM!!! PERIOD. No and's, if's, or BUTTS about IT!

                    Auntie Lynn
                    Be AKAMAI ~ KOKUA Hawai`i!
                    Philippians 4:13 --- I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

                      Follow the money...YouTube has gazilliions of videos about HSF (both pro and con). I found the following video that has some interesting "coincidences" related to the funding of HSF. Does anyone have any facts that can refute anything this guy is saying?

                      Miulang
                      "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

                        Originally posted by LikaNui View Post
                        Just a reminder that in addition to the pounding (and the yelling obscenities, etc.), there was also the image shown around the world of the Kauai idiot squatting down and letting the air out of the tires.
                        Carry on.
                        LOL @ not questioning what we see (and in this case, didn't hear) in the media. The "Kauai idiot" you speak of let the air out because the driver of that car attempted to ram the protesters. A bunch of the protesters took a break from exercising the provisions of the First Amendment to protect the others from the real "Kauai idiot" by immobilizing the vehicle.

                        Sure we have armchair QBs, but I didn't know we had armchair analysts/play-by-play/color commentators.


                        Originally posted by Miulang View Post
                        Correction: Found out it was the YWCA in Lihue and the cost was $3.3 million, which makes a $40 million expense for the State look even worse. New blogger to note for the Kaua'i perspective: Joan Conrow, former stringer for the Advertiser who was outted by someone as a writer who had contributed a story to the Sierra Club's magazine years ago and who lost her job at the Advertiser because of it and her blog.

                        Miulang
                        Hmm...you sure? The YMCA is the only one of those two groups that is currently building a massive rec center with a 50m pool.
                        Last edited by Mike_Lowery; September 26, 2007, 08:37 PM.
                        Twitter: LookMaICanWrite


                        flickr

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                        • #13
                          Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

                          Originally posted by Mike_Lowery View Post
                          LOL @ not questioning what we see (and in this case, didn't hear) in the media. The "Kauai idiot" you speak of let the air out because the driver of that car attempted to ram the protesters. A bunch of the protesters took a break from exercising the provisions of the First Amendment to protect the others from the real "Kauai idiot" by immobilizing the vehicle.

                          Sure we have armchair QBs, but I didn't know we had armchair analysts/play-by-play/color commentators.
                          I was reviewing some tapes of that incident on YouTube earlier this evening. Looked like a bunch of people actually sat down in front of some of the cars as the first ones were coming off the boat, and then cars proceeded to inch forward, which is when some people in the crowd started pounding on the hood and windows of the car.

                          Miulang
                          "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

                            Originally posted by Mike_Lowery View Post

                            Hmm...you sure? The YMCA is the only one of those two groups that is currently building a massive rec center with a 50m pool.
                            Got that from Joan Conrow's blog. She said it was the YMCA and they did an EA for a $3.3 million project that involved some State funding somehow (she implied that that was why the YMCA had to do an EA...because of Chapter 343).

                            Miulang
                            "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

                              Anyone here think HSF can realign their service here to simply being for cargo only? Steal Aloha's air cargo biz and YB's? Would there be as many protesters if that was the case?

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