Akaka vs. Case Debate: Live Thread

[Ho'ohoa]

Re: Akaka vs. Case Debate: Live Thread

I'm with you, Manoa. Akaka didn't say anything new--everything he had to say, Ariyoshi said 30 years ago. The only one with any creativity was Case.

[pzarquon]

Re: Akaka vs. Case Debate: Live Thread

I know the debate wrapped, but I'm still churning my way through it. So far, Akaka seems uncomfortable and relies on his notes. But he does demonstrate knowledge and knows where he stands -- he just has problems articulating them. Separated from the delivery, he did fine... but you can't do that in a debate.

On the other hand, Case is incredibly stiff and can't stop talking like a lawyer (a criticism levied against Kerry in the presidential debates). "Remember, as I referenced earlier..." As if citing a chapter and verse. Or, "Remember, it's not just about Hawaii, it's about the whole country." Yes, thank you, but the point is to make this relevant to Hawaii. We don't need a civics lesson. At this point, I'd say he's kept his followers in his camp, but didn't exactly win over any skeptical Akaka voters.

Watch me slowly catch up with the transcript here! Feel free to cite if you want to do post-debate analysis. A poll is on the way!

[i-hungry]

Re: Akaka vs. Case Debate: Live Thread

dang here it comes... case blows away akaka on Iraq...

This was just what case wanted...

I disagree. Case only concentrated on staying or leaving. The biggest point, failure in my perspective, was that Case agreed with going to war with Iraq.

1) Its morally wrong to begin a war with Iraq. Invading and killing people because we think they had nuclear weapons. When we finally couldn't prove it, the lame excuse of getting rid of Saddam was given (which Bush's dad could have done during the first Gulf War, if it was truly important).

2) The US is going to pay financially for this for years to come. Our soldiers suffer the brunt it on the personal level in terms of health, death, widows and etc. All for what? To get rid of one dictator while the US regularly does business with other countries with questionable leaders?

I somewhat agree with Case's point of his (self-appointed) transition for Hawaii senators. But since he doesn't see a problem with the Iraq war, I can't vote for him.

[admin]

Debate Poll

Adding post-debate poll. Be honest!

[Keanu]

Re: Akaka vs. Case Debate: Live Thread

At first, I was indifferent about this contest as I now live in Makiki but Case's arrogance and those irritating flyers from a National Association in support of him, just pushed me towards the Akaka camp. Luckily for me, the majority of my family lives in the 2nd Congressional district. I will be sure to show them the flyers and relay Ed Case's attitude to them. I'm certain they'll go to the polls in support of Akaka.

[Adri]

Re: Akaka vs. Case Debate: Live Thread

Thank you Pz , this was fun

"Or, "Remember, it's not just about Hawaii, it's about the whole country." Yes, thank you, but the point is to make this relevant to Hawaii. "

I think this is where Akaka did better than Case. Not in the flow of words, but in the feeling.

[mel]

Re: Akaka vs. Case Debate: Live Thread

OK, the poll at KITV's HawaiiChannel.com show Akaka with a slight lead on who won the debate. (8:49 PM)

You have to scroll down to the middle of their page to even find the poll question and then view the result.

Why don't they put a snap poll like this on top of their website?

[Linkmeister]

Re: Akaka vs. Case Debate: Live Thread

Shapiro blogged it live at the Advertiser site. He gave it to Case 118-114 (boxing points), but mostly on Case's smooth delivery.

I thought Akaka did ok till the Medicare purchasing question, when a simple "Yes, the government should use the purchasing power to get better prices" would have been sufficient.

[waioli kai]

Feardom is democrUSy: is Ed Case,, Re: Akaka vs. Case Live Thread

Wai'oli Kai and Keanu: that's part of the reason why he's so ineffective. Maybe if he had the communication skills he could have passed the Akaka Bill.

(This most recent past) The Akaka Bill did not pass by one vote. Any doubt which way Cheney would have voted had it been a tie vote? No, of course not, Cheney is Herr fascUSt$ itself!!

No respect, no understanding...that's who/the mindset is who is tragically (for themselves alone, one should hope/pray/chant, time will tell) setting
forth their fear-mongering doggerol of impending transition for/toward/through which "ONLY Ed Case Himself can deliver security for the U.S. State" of Hawaii, he and his advocants can only criminally, only ignobly refer to as Hawai'i, Hawai'i Nei.

[Linkmeister]

Re: Akaka vs. Case Debate: Live Thread

Case stressed bipartisanship. How could he fail to notice that in DeLay's/Hastert's/Boehner's House there's no such thing?

If he hasn't recognized that we Democrats have to hang together at this point to defeat Bush and his Administration, I don't want him in the Senate.

[mel]

Re: Debate Poll

Adding post-debate poll. Be honest!

My indecision is whether or not I want to pull a purple ballot and vote for Case, or just go with my regular ballot. That is where my indecision is.

So yes, in a nutshell just based on my statement above, I agree more with Case and even though he was a bit stiff, I still think he won the debate.

Both candidates were nervous, but then again both are probably thinking this is the "big one" and "I better not blow it" somewhere in the back of their minds.

BTW, my Neuros 2 MP4 file of this debate is 244 MB large (economy mode for iPods). Too bad the program is copyrighted and YouTube only allows up to 10 minutes per video. I would put it up.

Maybe PBS Hawaii will put up a video of the debate.

This thread has been fun. Thanks PZ. Aloha,
mel

[John Maple]

Re: Akaka vs. Case Debate: Live Thread

I kept an open mind before this debate, but on the basis of their presentations tonight, I'm going with Akaka. Here's why:

1) Sincerity. Case is intelligent and had a good command of the details. However, he struck me as the classic politician willing to say anything for a vote. He opened by accusing Akaka of "running against someone else", yet he opportunistically bashed Bush at almost every chance. Akaka's stand against Bush seemed a more principled one, one I can respect much more. Case came across as a condescending sophist. Watching this debate, I'm afraid Case's personal ambitions and need for power will overwhelm my interests and values as a voter.

2) The Senate. To borrow Reagan's classic phrase, Case's "youth and inexperience" showed here. More than any other political body, the Senate is based on personal relationships and proper decorum. Case's horse-trading hustler mentality does not suit this--and I can see him easily being sidelined by Republicans who don't need him and Democrats who don't trust him.

3) The War. The fact that Akaka reviewed the evidence and understood that the Iraq War was based on a tragically mistaken premise is a strong point in his favor. Case claimed he doesn't agree with Bush's handling of Iraq, but his formulation amounted to the inane adminstration line "Stay the course." I was hoping Case would offer some clear guiding strategy that would walk a middle line between the two. Instead, he took the Republican line and I can't in good conscience agree to that.

4) The Akaka Bill. I'm ambivalent on the Akaka Bill. I know there's arguments within the Hawaiian community about it, and I'm not sure if Senator Akaka's bill is the best way. But Case's answer struck me as too carefully phrased, like the fine-print on a scamming contract. Akaka, on the other hand, gave a sincere, clear answer on his signature issue. It was powerful, humble, and ultimately persuasive, probably the high point of his debate (after his closing statement, which I felt was cadenced wonderfully).

5) Case Underwhelmed. Ultimately, I think Case set the expectations too high. He had framed himself as an orator and demanded a series of debates. I expected he would trounce Akaka and that would finish the election. It was close, but in my view, Case didn't measure up. The burden was on him as the challenger. In the end, I felt Case oversold his persuasive powers and I'm not sure how effective an advocate he would prove on the Senate floor, let alone in the more important chamber logrolling conferences.

[TuNnL]

Re: Akaka vs. Case Debate: Live Thread

Case is incredibly stiff and can't stop talking like a lawyer (a criticism levied against Kerry in the presidential debates). "Remember, as I referenced earlier..." As if citing a chapter and verse. Or, "Remember, it's not just about Hawaii, it's about the whole country." Yes, thank you, but the point is to make this relevant to Hawaii. We don't need a civics lesson.

I concur - this debate really sealed it for me about Case’s arrogance. I disagreed with his position on the Iraq War, the Jones Act and the way he tried to silence his critics with symantics. I.E. “This is not about age, it’s about transition.” How ludicrous is that? If it’s about transition, we don’t need Case to run - Abercrombie is waiting in the wings, and he has FAR MORE seniority and considerably more political power than Case. Most importantly, unlike Case, he has a solid record of accomplishments.

[Adri]

Re: Akaka vs. Case Debate: Live Thread

I do hope Case recognizes when it's time for *him* to move on for the next generation. Cos those generations, they come up pretty fast.

[pzarquon]

Re: Akaka vs. Case Debate: Live Thread

Okay. Now that I've finished the transcript, my late, random thoughts, in no particular order.

Score!: 1. Though it, in many ways, undermined his whole campaign as being different from Akaka, I think Case did articulate well (and probably needed to mention) the times he, too, aligned with Akaka and disagreed with the Bush administration. I have to admit, it was these points where his words most resonated with me... except, of course, they were also Akaka's position. 2. Akaka's rebuttal to Case on Iraq made good use of his experience in studying and debating the intial question of going to war, and generally pointing out that he had a hand in shaping a lot of the issues Case is only jumping into now. 3. Case did make a fair point about his talkstory sessions and being in touch, and being able to draw anecdotes from that constituent contact helped quite a bit.

Huh? Moments: 1. Case holding the line on not setting timelines, but then giving a specific time period (six to nine months?) before he figured we could start to withdraw. Hmm. Add in some inevitable delays, and doesn't that put his not-a-timeline in line with Akaka's timeline? 2. Akaka's answers to a couple of questions were, frankly, incomprehensable. I think he had a ten word thought that he stretched into a practically meaningless essay. 3. Case had his moments, too, though. I swear it took me forever to untangle his "Iraq is not just about Iraq" response. Read the transcript. It's almost beat poetry. 4. Case saying Native Hawaiian recognition should be left to the Native Hawaiians, but stating outright he's against independence. They should determine what they want, so long as it's not {x}? 5. Case's whole "dollar for a box of cereal" thing. He could've picked just about anything else for an example, but I bet livingrooms drowned him out with, "A dollar for a box of cereal? What planet does he live on?"

Missed Opportunities: Several times Case left himself wide open on the question of having someone experienced in the Senate. As many have already noted, the obvious response is, "Sure, but how 'bout Abercrombie, bucko!" Or, frankly, anyone else. Someone just say, "We agree with the need for transition, we just think you're totally the wrong guy." 2. Case had several chances to call Akaka out on failing to answer the question. On the other hand, this was probably an advance strategic decision, because it would make him look petty. And even worse when you add in his already lawyer-y speaking style. 3. Case similarly left himself open when he tried to navigate the "whether there were terrorists in Iraq before we went in" and on the "civil war" question. Sadly, Akaka had his Iraq notecard, and missed a great chance to call Case on those points.

Shooting Yourself in the Foot: 1. Case repeatedly highlighting work that was done before he was in Congress. Yes, that means he can't be blamed for it, but it also reminds folks that the man has barely worn a groove in his chair in the House. 2. Akaka ceding the advantage on the Patriot Act II question by talking himself into a Kerry-esque "I voted for it before I voted against it" stance. If he'd stuck to PATRIOT Act II, which was the question, he'd have been fine. 3. Case wasting precious time in several questions trying to restate them, reframe them, or even debate their accuracy. It goes back to the lawyer speak, and when done badly - like in this case - it comes out as condescending. "Here, let me spell this out. And remember again what I said earlier. That question should really be about..."


Overall: Case "wins" on technical grounds, simply because he fumbled less and relied less on notes. But, he didn't beat the spread. Akaka muddled through, and Case failed to totally shine. I really felt as if Case was holding back, and suffered as a result. He seemed less sure of himself than usual, turned to his own notes more than I thought he would, and repeated himself just as much as Akaka did (just with more flowery language). On emotional grounds, at best it's a tie, and I think Akaka gets an edge for speaking from the heart -- even if it wasn't particularly elegant speaking, it wasn't lawyer speak, either. Case really did remind me of Kerry, and how he could turn even the most passionate topic into a algebra lecture. Especially his opening and closing remarks, when he tried to "loosen up." It was painful to hear him try and sound casual. "Well, that hour sure went by fast!"

I'd be really curious if any minds were changed. I think everyone got what they expected, and there were no surprises, on the debate performance front. Akaka effectively handicapped himself, lowering expectations for weeks. Case spoke well, meanwhile, and if anything tripped himself up in an effort to be a little less aggressive.

I will have to say that even though I expected Akaka to get muddled and stumble, I was surprised at how plainly evident his discomfort with speaking extemporaneously was. It's every public-speaker-phobe's worst nightmare. But I was also surprised at how stiff Case was. I often compared him to Jeremy Harris, but he definitely fell short tonight.