View Poll Results: Who do you think "won" the Aug. 31 Akaka/Case debate?

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  • I'm an Akaka supporter, and I think Akaka won.

    3 15.00%
  • I'm undecided, and I think Akaka won.

    5 25.00%
  • I'm a Case supporter, but I think Akaka won.

    0 0%
  • I'm an Akaka supporter, but I think Case won.

    2 10.00%
  • I'm undecided, but I think Case won.

    6 30.00%
  • I'm a Case supporter, and I think Case won.

    4 20.00%
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Thread: Akaka vs. Case Debate: Live Thread

  1. #76

    Default Re: Akaka vs. Case Debate: Live Thread

    I'm with you, Manoa. Akaka didn't say anything new--everything he had to say, Ariyoshi said 30 years ago. The only one with any creativity was Case.

  2. #77
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    Default Re: Akaka vs. Case Debate: Live Thread

    I know the debate wrapped, but I'm still churning my way through it. So far, Akaka seems uncomfortable and relies on his notes. But he does demonstrate knowledge and knows where he stands -- he just has problems articulating them. Separated from the delivery, he did fine... but you can't do that in a debate.

    On the other hand, Case is incredibly stiff and can't stop talking like a lawyer (a criticism levied against Kerry in the presidential debates). "Remember, as I referenced earlier..." As if citing a chapter and verse. Or, "Remember, it's not just about Hawaii, it's about the whole country." Yes, thank you, but the point is to make this relevant to Hawaii. We don't need a civics lesson. At this point, I'd say he's kept his followers in his camp, but didn't exactly win over any skeptical Akaka voters.

    Watch me slowly catch up with the transcript here! Feel free to cite if you want to do post-debate analysis. A poll is on the way!

  3. #78
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    Default Re: Akaka vs. Case Debate: Live Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by manoasurfer123
    dang here it comes... case blows away akaka on Iraq...

    This was just what case wanted...
    I disagree. Case only concentrated on staying or leaving. The biggest point, failure in my perspective, was that Case agreed with going to war with Iraq.

    1) Its morally wrong to begin a war with Iraq. Invading and killing people because we think they had nuclear weapons. When we finally couldn't prove it, the lame excuse of getting rid of Saddam was given (which Bush's dad could have done during the first Gulf War, if it was truly important).

    2) The US is going to pay financially for this for years to come. Our soldiers suffer the brunt it on the personal level in terms of health, death, widows and etc. All for what? To get rid of one dictator while the US regularly does business with other countries with questionable leaders?

    I somewhat agree with Case's point of his (self-appointed) transition for Hawaii senators. But since he doesn't see a problem with the Iraq war, I can't vote for him.

  4. #79
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    Default Debate Poll

    Adding post-debate poll. Be honest!

  5. #80
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    Default Re: Akaka vs. Case Debate: Live Thread

    At first, I was indifferent about this contest as I now live in Makiki but Case's arrogance and those irritating flyers from a National Association in support of him, just pushed me towards the Akaka camp. Luckily for me, the majority of my family lives in the 2nd Congressional district. I will be sure to show them the flyers and relay Ed Case's attitude to them. I'm certain they'll go to the polls in support of Akaka.

  6. #81

    Default Re: Akaka vs. Case Debate: Live Thread

    Thank you Pz , this was fun

    "Or, "Remember, it's not just about Hawaii, it's about the whole country." Yes, thank you, but the point is to make this relevant to Hawaii. "

    I think this is where Akaka did better than Case. Not in the flow of words, but in the feeling.

  7. #82
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    Default Re: Akaka vs. Case Debate: Live Thread

    OK, the poll at KITV's HawaiiChannel.com show Akaka with a slight lead on who won the debate. (8:49 PM)

    You have to scroll down to the middle of their page to even find the poll question and then view the result.

    Why don't they put a snap poll like this on top of their website?

  8. #83

    Default Re: Akaka vs. Case Debate: Live Thread

    Shapiro blogged it live at the Advertiser site. He gave it to Case 118-114 (boxing points), but mostly on Case's smooth delivery.

    I thought Akaka did ok till the Medicare purchasing question, when a simple "Yes, the government should use the purchasing power to get better prices" would have been sufficient.

  9. #84
    waioli kai Guest

    Default Feardom is democrUSy: is Ed Case,, Re: Akaka vs. Case Live Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Ho'ohoa
    Wai'oli Kai and Keanu: that's part of the reason why he's so ineffective. Maybe if he had the communication skills he could have passed the Akaka Bill.
    (This most recent past) The Akaka Bill did not pass by one vote. Any doubt which way Cheney would have voted had it been a tie vote? No, of course not, Cheney is Herr fascUSt$ itself!!

    No respect, no understanding...that's who/the mindset is who is tragically (for themselves alone, one should hope/pray/chant, time will tell) setting
    forth their fear-mongering doggerol of impending transition for/toward/through which "ONLY Ed Case Himself can deliver security for the U.S. State" of Hawaii, he and his advocants can only criminally, only ignobly refer to as Hawai'i, Hawai'i Nei.
    Last edited by waioli kai; August 31st, 2006 at 08:55 PM.

  10. #85

    Default Re: Akaka vs. Case Debate: Live Thread

    Case stressed bipartisanship. How could he fail to notice that in DeLay's/Hastert's/Boehner's House there's no such thing?

    If he hasn't recognized that we Democrats have to hang together at this point to defeat Bush and his Administration, I don't want him in the Senate.

  11. #86
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    Default Re: Debate Poll

    Quote Originally Posted by admin
    Adding post-debate poll. Be honest!
    My indecision is whether or not I want to pull a purple ballot and vote for Case, or just go with my regular ballot. That is where my indecision is.

    So yes, in a nutshell just based on my statement above, I agree more with Case and even though he was a bit stiff, I still think he won the debate.

    Both candidates were nervous, but then again both are probably thinking this is the "big one" and "I better not blow it" somewhere in the back of their minds.

    BTW, my Neuros 2 MP4 file of this debate is 244 MB large (economy mode for iPods). Too bad the program is copyrighted and YouTube only allows up to 10 minutes per video. I would put it up.

    Maybe PBS Hawaii will put up a video of the debate.

    This thread has been fun. Thanks PZ. Aloha,
    mel
    I'm still here. Are you?

  12. #87

    Default Re: Akaka vs. Case Debate: Live Thread

    I kept an open mind before this debate, but on the basis of their presentations tonight, I'm going with Akaka. Here's why:

    1) Sincerity. Case is intelligent and had a good command of the details. However, he struck me as the classic politician willing to say anything for a vote. He opened by accusing Akaka of "running against someone else", yet he opportunistically bashed Bush at almost every chance. Akaka's stand against Bush seemed a more principled one, one I can respect much more. Case came across as a condescending sophist. Watching this debate, I'm afraid Case's personal ambitions and need for power will overwhelm my interests and values as a voter.

    2) The Senate. To borrow Reagan's classic phrase, Case's "youth and inexperience" showed here. More than any other political body, the Senate is based on personal relationships and proper decorum. Case's horse-trading hustler mentality does not suit this--and I can see him easily being sidelined by Republicans who don't need him and Democrats who don't trust him.

    3) The War. The fact that Akaka reviewed the evidence and understood that the Iraq War was based on a tragically mistaken premise is a strong point in his favor. Case claimed he doesn't agree with Bush's handling of Iraq, but his formulation amounted to the inane adminstration line "Stay the course." I was hoping Case would offer some clear guiding strategy that would walk a middle line between the two. Instead, he took the Republican line and I can't in good conscience agree to that.

    4) The Akaka Bill. I'm ambivalent on the Akaka Bill. I know there's arguments within the Hawaiian community about it, and I'm not sure if Senator Akaka's bill is the best way. But Case's answer struck me as too carefully phrased, like the fine-print on a scamming contract. Akaka, on the other hand, gave a sincere, clear answer on his signature issue. It was powerful, humble, and ultimately persuasive, probably the high point of his debate (after his closing statement, which I felt was cadenced wonderfully).

    5) Case Underwhelmed. Ultimately, I think Case set the expectations too high. He had framed himself as an orator and demanded a series of debates. I expected he would trounce Akaka and that would finish the election. It was close, but in my view, Case didn't measure up. The burden was on him as the challenger. In the end, I felt Case oversold his persuasive powers and I'm not sure how effective an advocate he would prove on the Senate floor, let alone in the more important chamber logrolling conferences.

  13. #88
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    Talking Re: Akaka vs. Case Debate: Live Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by pzarquon
    Case is incredibly stiff and can't stop talking like a lawyer (a criticism levied against Kerry in the presidential debates). "Remember, as I referenced earlier..." As if citing a chapter and verse. Or, "Remember, it's not just about Hawaii, it's about the whole country." Yes, thank you, but the point is to make this relevant to Hawaii. We don't need a civics lesson.
    I concur - this debate really sealed it for me about Case’s arrogance. I disagreed with his position on the Iraq War, the Jones Act and the way he tried to silence his critics with symantics. I.E. “This is not about age, it’s about transition.” How ludicrous is that? If it’s about transition, we don’t need Case to run - Abercrombie is waiting in the wings, and he has FAR MORE seniority and considerably more political power than Case. Most importantly, unlike Case, he has a solid record of accomplishments.

  14. #89

    Default Re: Akaka vs. Case Debate: Live Thread

    I do hope Case recognizes when it's time for *him* to move on for the next generation. Cos those generations, they come up pretty fast.

  15. #90
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    Default Re: Akaka vs. Case Debate: Live Thread

    Okay. Now that I've finished the transcript, my late, random thoughts, in no particular order.

    Score!: 1. Though it, in many ways, undermined his whole campaign as being different from Akaka, I think Case did articulate well (and probably needed to mention) the times he, too, aligned with Akaka and disagreed with the Bush administration. I have to admit, it was these points where his words most resonated with me... except, of course, they were also Akaka's position. 2. Akaka's rebuttal to Case on Iraq made good use of his experience in studying and debating the intial question of going to war, and generally pointing out that he had a hand in shaping a lot of the issues Case is only jumping into now. 3. Case did make a fair point about his talkstory sessions and being in touch, and being able to draw anecdotes from that constituent contact helped quite a bit.

    Huh? Moments: 1. Case holding the line on not setting timelines, but then giving a specific time period (six to nine months?) before he figured we could start to withdraw. Hmm. Add in some inevitable delays, and doesn't that put his not-a-timeline in line with Akaka's timeline? 2. Akaka's answers to a couple of questions were, frankly, incomprehensable. I think he had a ten word thought that he stretched into a practically meaningless essay. 3. Case had his moments, too, though. I swear it took me forever to untangle his "Iraq is not just about Iraq" response. Read the transcript. It's almost beat poetry. 4. Case saying Native Hawaiian recognition should be left to the Native Hawaiians, but stating outright he's against independence. They should determine what they want, so long as it's not {x}? 5. Case's whole "dollar for a box of cereal" thing. He could've picked just about anything else for an example, but I bet livingrooms drowned him out with, "A dollar for a box of cereal? What planet does he live on?"

    Missed Opportunities: Several times Case left himself wide open on the question of having someone experienced in the Senate. As many have already noted, the obvious response is, "Sure, but how 'bout Abercrombie, bucko!" Or, frankly, anyone else. Someone just say, "We agree with the need for transition, we just think you're totally the wrong guy." 2. Case had several chances to call Akaka out on failing to answer the question. On the other hand, this was probably an advance strategic decision, because it would make him look petty. And even worse when you add in his already lawyer-y speaking style. 3. Case similarly left himself open when he tried to navigate the "whether there were terrorists in Iraq before we went in" and on the "civil war" question. Sadly, Akaka had his Iraq notecard, and missed a great chance to call Case on those points.

    Shooting Yourself in the Foot: 1. Case repeatedly highlighting work that was done before he was in Congress. Yes, that means he can't be blamed for it, but it also reminds folks that the man has barely worn a groove in his chair in the House. 2. Akaka ceding the advantage on the Patriot Act II question by talking himself into a Kerry-esque "I voted for it before I voted against it" stance. If he'd stuck to PATRIOT Act II, which was the question, he'd have been fine. 3. Case wasting precious time in several questions trying to restate them, reframe them, or even debate their accuracy. It goes back to the lawyer speak, and when done badly - like in this case - it comes out as condescending. "Here, let me spell this out. And remember again what I said earlier. That question should really be about..."


    Overall: Case "wins" on technical grounds, simply because he fumbled less and relied less on notes. But, he didn't beat the spread. Akaka muddled through, and Case failed to totally shine. I really felt as if Case was holding back, and suffered as a result. He seemed less sure of himself than usual, turned to his own notes more than I thought he would, and repeated himself just as much as Akaka did (just with more flowery language). On emotional grounds, at best it's a tie, and I think Akaka gets an edge for speaking from the heart -- even if it wasn't particularly elegant speaking, it wasn't lawyer speak, either. Case really did remind me of Kerry, and how he could turn even the most passionate topic into a algebra lecture. Especially his opening and closing remarks, when he tried to "loosen up." It was painful to hear him try and sound casual. "Well, that hour sure went by fast!"

    I'd be really curious if any minds were changed. I think everyone got what they expected, and there were no surprises, on the debate performance front. Akaka effectively handicapped himself, lowering expectations for weeks. Case spoke well, meanwhile, and if anything tripped himself up in an effort to be a little less aggressive.

    I will have to say that even though I expected Akaka to get muddled and stumble, I was surprised at how plainly evident his discomfort with speaking extemporaneously was. It's every public-speaker-phobe's worst nightmare. But I was also surprised at how stiff Case was. I often compared him to Jeremy Harris, but he definitely fell short tonight.
    Last edited by pzarquon; August 31st, 2006 at 11:51 PM.

  16. #91
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    Default Re: Akaka vs. Case Debate: Live Thread

    In this morning's StarBulletin http://starbulletin.com/2006/09/01/news/story01.html

    Akaka vs. Case: Candidates square off in their only debate
    Immediate focus is on issue of age
    Case urges a young leader to provide transition; Akaka touts his experience
    By Richard Borreca

    U.S. Rep. Ed Case called for a "choice between the past and the future," and U.S. Sen. Daniel Akaka asked voters to pick "legislators who have character and a belief in strong values."

    Because the debate was sponsored by AARP, several questions, posed by Gerald Kato, chairman of the University of Hawaii School of Communications, were framed to be of interest to seniors.

    Skip Lambert of Kapahulu, retired restaurant manager, works in the Case campaign. After calling voters for the last few weeks, Lambert says he has seen the number of undecided voters shrinking.

    "This debate should clarify it for those people," Lambert said.

    No need go any further in discussing what happened last night. PZ gave an excellent assesment on the Debate. Too bad there won't be anymore Debates like the one last night. I'm sure if there were, both Candidates would be more comfortable the next time. Debates gives us a better understanding on where the Candidates stands on Issues...coming out of their mouth and not out of a spokesperson. It also gives us an idea of the person themselves. Their personality, their strengths, their weakness, their humbleness, etc.

    Disapponted last night? Yes. I expected a bit more of a fiesty Debate.

    Also, in The Honolulu Advertiser: Advantage: Case
    http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/ap...WS05/609010318

    "Although it may take several days for the impact of the debate to be felt by the campaigns, the instant reaction last night from some political analysts was that while both men seemed prepared, Case was more detailed and effective in answering questions."

    At 5:55 a.m. KITV4 News Poll
    Case 172 Votes 52%
    Akaka 148 Votes 45%
    It was a tie 12 Votes 4%

    Auntie Lynn
    Last edited by 1stwahine; September 1st, 2006 at 05:59 AM.
    Be AKAMAI ~ KOKUA Hawai`i!
    Philippians 4:13 --- I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.

  17. #92
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    Default Re: Akaka vs. Case Debate: Live Thread

    KITV poll, at 9:30am, Case 56% to Akaka 41%.
    Akaka couldn't answer a single thing without reading verbatim from prepared notes. His Medicare answer was pathetic and pitiable. Very nice man, and I thank him for his decades of public service but respectfully ask that he admit his time is past and his mind has slowed with age, and step aside. Retire gracefully.
    I was undecided before the debate. Still don't think Case is exactly the person I want in the Senate, but still prefer him over Akaka.
    .
    .

    That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

  18. #93

    Default Re: Akaka vs. Case Debate: Live Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by LikaNui
    Still don't think Case is exactly the person I want in the Senate, but still prefer him over Akaka.
    I get the feeling, from reading this and the other related thread, that there are many of you who feel something akin to this. This may be one of those "choosing the evil of two lessers" elections.

  19. #94
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    Default Re: Akaka vs. Case Debate: Live Thread

    Yeah, Leo. That's about right.
    And I forgot to mention that Akaka looked better than Case. Nicer shirt and much nicer tie. Case's mommy dresses him funny.
    .
    .

    That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

  20. #95
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    Default Re: Akaka vs. Case Debate: Live Thread

    Some more commentary and critiques in this mid-day Star-Bulletin update:
    Ira Rohter, University of Hawaii political scientist, also said Akaka seemed “past his prime.” “He usually had his head down, having to read from prepared notes, and answered usually in generalities rather than specifics. I was surprised that he failed to mention bills that he had a role in passing during his long career first as congressman, then senator,” Rohter said. Political observer and University of Hawaii political scientist Neal Milner said he found himself “wincing with sympathy” at Akaka’s performance.
    And I forgot to highlight this excellent audio commentary recorded less than an hour after the debate's end over at HawaiiElectionWatch.org.

  21. #96
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    Default Re: Akaka vs. Case Debate: Live Thread

    KHNL NBC 8 HOME News 4:50 p.m.
    Poll 8 Interactive
    Who do you think did a better job in Thursday night's debate?
    Thank you for participating in our poll. Here are the results so far.
    Senator Daniel Akaka 19%
    Representative Ed Case 81%
    Akaka and Case Meet In TV Debate
    http://www.khnl.com/?pass=1#poll55499

    Auntie Lynn
    Be AKAMAI ~ KOKUA Hawai`i!
    Philippians 4:13 --- I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.

  22. #97
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    Default Re: Akaka vs. Case Debate: Live Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by 1stwahine
    KHNL NBC 8 HOME News 4:50 p.m.
    Poll 8 Interactive
    Who do you think did a better job in Thursday night's debate?
    Thank you for participating in our poll. Here are the results so far.
    Senator Daniel Akaka 19%
    Representative Ed Case 81%
    Akaka and Case Meet In TV Debate
    http://www.khnl.com/?pass=1#poll55499

    Auntie Lynn
    that's a very staggering figure...how many votes turned in?

  23. #98
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    Default Re: Akaka vs. Case Debate: Live Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by manoasurfer123
    that's a very staggering figure...how many votes turned in?
    They don't show how many people Vote. I also checked KITV regarding how often a person can Vote. It's not like how we have on HT where we can only Vote once. On both sites you can vote multiple times so I wouldn't go by the Polls ~ and I'm an Ed Case supporter.

    Auntie Lynn
    Be AKAMAI ~ KOKUA Hawai`i!
    Philippians 4:13 --- I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.

  24. #99
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    Default Re: Akaka vs. Case Debate: Live Thread

    Most online polls are not to be taken seriously. The ones like KITV and StarBulletin.com don't require you to log-in.. so like you can vote several times using either different computers, or your same computer after emptying out your disc cache or even logging in from a different IP number. Here at HawaiiThreads your vote is tied into your login username.

  25. #100

    Default Re: Akaka vs. Case Debate: Live Thread

    Just got an email from Case's campaign stating:

    KITV - Channel 4 is conducting an online poll to determine who did better in last night's U.S. Senate debate. Ed Case was well ahead 54% to 42% until the Akaka campaign eblasted all of their supporters. Who do you think clearly showed himself the better candidate to represent our Hawaii and our country for the next generation? Please vote now at: www.thehawaiichannel.com/index.html

    Mahalo!
    Hmmm, I wonder to what extent the e-begging (on either side) is influencing the polls?

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