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The Iraq War - Chapter 5

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  • The Iraq War - Chapter 5

    http://www.motherjones.com/bush_war_timeline/

    Lie by Lie: Chronicle of a War Foretold: August 1990 to March 2003

    The first drafts of history are fragmentary. Important revelations arrive late, and out of order. In this timeline, we’ve assembled the history of the Iraq War to create a resource we hope will help resolve open questions of the Bush era. What did our leaders know and when did they know it? And, perhaps just as important, what red flags did we miss, and how could we have missed them? This is the first installment in our Iraq War timeline project.

    ========================
    this website is mindblowing.

    pax

  • #2
    Re: The Iraq War - Chapter 5

    Beyond FDR, on the topic of how "we" treat "the enemy":

    "The only legitimate war on terror must also be a war on fear itself. Terror is defeated when the fear it has induced is dispelled. Dispelling fear is much more than merely neutralizing a threat. To dispel fear, the threat also has to be rendered irrelevant by precisely a moral fortitude unshaken by terror, by an unwavering dedication to higher principles."

    ~ Alexandre Trudeau, published in Maclean's, 9/11/06 ~

    Comment


    • #3
      To answer Timkona's question

      Who thinks terror will decrease if we ignore the problem?? - Timkona

      A legitimate question that never got discussed before the thread degenerated into racist, infantile blathering. I say no, we should not ignore the problem. But doing what we are doing in Iraq is worse than ignoring the problem, it is counterproductive by exacerbating a civil war and alienating us from moderate Muslims whose support we will need if can achieve stability in the Middle East.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: The Iraq War - Chapter 5

        No we shouldn't ignore the problem, but since the current Administration has done its best to alienate us from the rest of the world through some of its policies, I think the best way we have to fight terror is to beef up our own defenses within this country: i.e., strengthen the National Guard (bring 'em home so they can be our NATIONAL defense again, and not our INTERNATIONAL defense!), allocate more funds to beef up port security so that no WMDs and illegal aliens can get through, spend more time and money on healing this country by solving some of our internal problems (e.g., access to healthcare, creating meaningful jobs, protecting current jobs and pensions, encouraging development of alternative fuels) rather than starting wars pre-emptively all over the world.

        The next White House administration is going to have to do a lot of fence mending by the time it's inaugurated in 2009. Around the world, leaders are changing too (no more Blair, no more Koizumi) so the next Administration will definitely have to restore good relations with some of our former "friends".

        Miulang
        "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

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        • #5
          They want us to leave!

          According to a recent State Dept. poll of Iraqis, the overwhelming majority (almost 75%) of people polled said they would feel safer if the US and its allies left Iraq (they also believe that our occupation has increased the violence in that country), and 65% said they wanted us out immediately.

          Sounds like we've overstayed our welcome, and the longer we insist we need to stay there to maintain the peace, the more civilians and our troops (we've lost at least 3 Kaneohe Marines and Schofield soldiers in the last week) get killed.

          Maybe we should bring the troops home, and give the people of Iraq the $1.2 billion we're spending every week on keeping our troops in Iraq to help them rebuild their country.

          Miulang
          Last edited by Miulang; September 27, 2006, 01:29 PM.
          "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

          Comment


          • #6
            60% of Iraqis approve of attacks on U.S.

            Anybody still think we should be over there making the Mideast "safe for democracy?"

            http://www.charter.net/news/read.php...ARSDCCLM_UNEWS

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            • #7
              Re: The Iraq War - Chapter 5

              Let's see...

              The crazy president of Iran - democratically elected; the crazy president of Venezuela - democratically elected; the crazy president of America - democratically elected.

              Not the best arguments one could make in favor of "democracy."

              Comment


              • #8
                $2 billion a week in Iraq

                A newly released Congressional analysis indicates that the taxpayers are now sending about $2 billion a week to support our efforts in Iraq. This is 20% more than a year ago. If Congress votes to accept the new interim funding requests submitted by the Pentagon, we will spend more than $509 billion on both Iraq and Afghanistan since Sept. 11, 2001.

                How many more teachers and nurses could be hired for that money? How much closer to being rebuilt would New Orleans be?

                We're spending $370 million a week in Afghanistan. FOR WHAT????? The Taliban is gaining traction again in parts of Afghanistan, while the President wines and dines Afghan President Karzai in Washington, DC.

                Miulang
                "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

                Comment


                • #9
                  $70 billion emergency funding approved

                  As expected, Congress approved an additional $70 billion to fund troops in Iraq and Afghanistan. That money will probably only last through the Spring of 2007, when the Pentagon will go before Congress again for more emergency funding. Of that amount, $24 billion will be given to the Army and Marines to replenish and repair equipment rendered inoperable over the last 3 years through continous use.

                  More ominously, the approved bill will allow for an additional 30,000 soldiers and 5,000 Marines to be called up next year. The next question is: given the unpopularity of the occupations, where will those additional troops come from? The IRR? Calling up more National Guard?

                  With passage of this appropriation, we, the taxpayers, and our children and their children are half a trillion dollars in debt with no end in sight.

                  Miulang

                  P.S. One of the saddest stories from the front is this one, about Merideth Howard, a 52-year old Reservist from Alameda, CA who, on Sept. 8, became the oldest woman soldier to die fighting for the United States during this conflict. She went because she was told to go. Here's an "official" obituary that chronicles her life up until the day she died. An incredible woman who didn't run away from her obligations.

                  And Reservist families are ordering cardboard likenesses of family members ("Flat Daddies") serving in Afghanistan and Iraq so kids have a way to remember their family members' faces.
                  Last edited by Miulang; September 29, 2006, 06:32 PM.
                  "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    $20 million for a "pre-emptive" victory party?

                    Somebody sneaked in a little $20 million line item into the last emergency funding bill for Iraq and Afghanistan. The purpose? To celebrate our "victory" in Iraq and Iran.

                    There's finger pointing on both sides of the aisle now about who allowed this allocation to be included. It appears that it was also in the last emergency funding bill passed in the spring but obviously the money was never spent because we haven't declared victory yet.

                    The fact that BOTH Republicans and Democrats UNANIMOUSLY approved the funding bill tells me 1) either Congress really is rubberstamping every bill without taking the time to read all the fine print, or 2) the leaders of Congress are forcing the body to vote on bills for which they don't allow adequate time to study the bill and/or be allowed to ask questions.

                    I'm not so worried about the $20 million right now (mainly because it's doubtful we'll ever be able to pronounce that we've won the occupation). What concerns me more is that all this was unanimously voted upon and only after the dust has settled that questions are starting to be asked.

                    I want my elected representatives to pay careful attention to any bills or resolutions which require a vote and to ask questions before casting their vote...not afterward when it's too late.

                    Miulang
                    "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      655,000 Iraqi dead...and counting

                      A scientifically credible report published by the Johns Hopkins University reveals that at least 655,000 Iraqi civilians have been killed since the US occupation of Iraq began. This is on top of the more than 2,700 US troops killed, and 20,000+ wounded. When the President was asked to comment on the number during a press conference, he refused to do so, which either means he knows the truth but doesn't want to confirm it, or Karl Rove told him not to say anything if asked about it.

                      The occupation is costing taxpayers money (at the rate of $2 billion a week)...and more importantly, LIVES on both sides of the conflict. Our troops didn't kill all 655,000 of those people, but our being in country also didn't prevent their blood from being shed, either.

                      The Army published new estimates for how long they expect to be in Iraq...the date is now 2010. Another 4 years of death? At the rate things are going, by 2010, more than 1 million Iraqis will have been sacrificed...FOR WHAT??????

                      Many prominent Republicans (most notably Sen. John Warner and ex-Sec. of State James A. Baker, who has been a close adviser to the White House) have gone on record stating that unless the Iraqi government steps up and starts to manage the violence, it may be time to start drawing up a timetable for our redeployment. The problem is, no one has yet defined how much longer we will have to wait before we can change our course. In the meantime, the violence continues, and lives are lost.

                      Miulang
                      Last edited by Miulang; October 12, 2006, 01:00 PM.
                      "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: The Iraq War - Chapter 5

                        I stumbled across a fascinating little blog site called "The Sandbox" (hosted by Gary Trudeau of Doonesbury fame) which gathers together the thoughts of many of our troops serving in Iraq and Afghanistan. It all is a very poignant reminder that those men and women are PEOPLE too, not just pawns doing our country's bidding.

                        Miulang
                        "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Sending PTSD troops back to the field

                          If the military is so hard up for troops that they have to send men and women who have already been in combat but who have been diagnosed as psychologically handicapped by post traumatic stress disease, then there is something very very wrong.

                          Sending them back "to face their fears" is like pulling the pin on a live grenade. There's no guarantee how the psychologically affected troop member will react when faced with enemy fire, which would put his/her team members in mortal danger from friendly fire.

                          This is a very bad policy for the Pentagon to implement, and it just underscores the desperation of the DoD at not being able to sustain the number of troops in the field.

                          One study estimates that about 16 percent of soldiers returning from Iraq have PTSD. But military officials say they don't keep tabs on how many troops still fighting have been diagnosed. Most soldiers are never screened, a GAO report finds.

                          Wilson says the danger of having someone with PTSD at the front lines is that they are at risk themselves and put their units at risk and could break down under the stresses of combat.
                          "Hey Yossarian!"

                          Miulang

                          P.S. So we're sending emotionally fragile troops back into the field on the one hand, while holding back others who are not psychologically damaged because they have serious financial troubles and are considered "security threats" (they could be bribed or bought off by the enemy)??? What's wrong with this picture?
                          Last edited by Miulang; October 20, 2006, 08:31 AM.
                          "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            The aftermath of the disaster at Camp Falcon

                            On Oct. 10, FOB Falcon, the largest US military base in Iraq, which is the home to 3 battalions and the major supply depot for tanks, trucks and supplies, blew up in what the US press described as a fire of unknown origin. The press also reported that there were no deaths or injuries, and everyone was safely evacuated, although an estimated $1 billion in munitions and equipment was destroyed. With the large number of personnel stationed at this camp, many people were incredulous that there were not more casualties, or at least injuries, reported in the aftermath.

                            In the last few days, there are been leaks (including names of those who were killed) swirling around the internet about the true proportions of the disaster. According to some reports, at least 300 US troops and 1 CIA officer were killed during the explosions and fire or died shortly afterward. The fires and explosion were caused by mortar fire and rockets presumably fired by Iraqi insurgents.

                            Could this be the reason why the White House decided to have the 2 meetings with the military leaders of the Iraq occupation on Friday and yesterday, and that it's now time to "stay the course" by coming up with a timeline for the Iraqi government to take over security duties? What else is our government not telling us about what's going on in Iraq?

                            Miulang
                            Last edited by Miulang; October 22, 2006, 02:52 PM.
                            "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              State Dept. official "misspoke" on Al-Jazeera about US presence in Iraq

                              http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/10/23/fer...ent/index.html

                              Looks like someone made him retract his statement. Too bad. He was just spittin' some truth, IMHO.
                              Twitter: LookMaICanWrite


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