HD Radio

[craigwatanabe]

Re: HD Radio

HD-FM is a great medium..HD-AM is a nightmare which can only be used during the day and when in use causes interference (but legal interference) 10 to 20 khz on either side of any station that broadcasts with it. For example if a station at 1320 was to use it there would be noticable noise at 1310 and 1330 and closer to the transmitter location at 1300 and 1340. In major mainland cities where there are numbers of HD-AM otherwise known as IBOC (In Band on Channel) AM stations in operation it is impossible to receive nearby on the dial suburban or next city stations that were previously quite listenable...In a real life example in Detroit much of the AM band is now a local only situation because with so many stations separated by the minimum 40 kilohertz separation there is nothing but the sound of IBOC hash in between. On Oahu there are not that many stations to where the minimum spacing between stations comes into play but if 1420, 1460, 1500, and 1540 all were to broadcasting in IBOC the hash noise would extend depending upon one's location from 1400 to 1560 except when one was listening to one of those stations. If there were stations at 1400,1440,1480,1520, or 1560 that had been receivable with IBOC it would be anywhere from difficult to impossible to be able to comfortably listen to them.

How do you cram digital broadcasts in such a narrow bandwidth of AM?

[mel]

Re: HD Radio

Star 101.9-1 is the first radio station in Hawaii to start HD broadcasts. They're owned by Clear Channel and several other stations are slated to start soon, including KSSK 92.3-1 which will carry the standard KSSK programming. The broadcasts started on April 1. Erika Engle covers this in today's Buzz article:

HD radio broadcasting hits Hawaii with Star 101.9

CLEAR Channel Hawaii's KUCD-FM 101.9 has won the race to become the first Hawaii station to start high-definition, digital radio broadcasting.

Star 101.9's programming is at 101.9-1. Its HD sister is playing test-music on 101.9-2, but a harder rock format will likely begin by the end of the week.

KSSK-FM 92.3 will go HD "within the next month," ....

I guess listeners with $$$ will finally be able to justify the purchase of the new HD radio sets. Hopefully with more stations signing on, the price of this units can go down. It may be a long time before it happens.

[Radiohead]

Re: HD Radio

I am not a regular listener to Star 101.9, but I wanted to hear how HD Radio sounds. The sound quality is not that good. It sounds very tin canish. Am I missing something, does anybody else hear what I am hearing. I punch my dials in my car and all the other FM signals have full body and especially bass sounds, but Star has lost that with the HD conversion. Is it really worth the hassle to flip over to HD and lose your past quality sound? And with Star's decline in the ratings, can they lose numbers and sound quality? I don't think so.
And finally is KSSK and the other Clear Channel stations going to lose their sound quality when they flip over soon. Clear Channel better rethink impressing the three or four people with HD radio's over the mass audience that does not have HD radio's.

[mel]

Re: HD Radio

I don't think analog radio is going away any time soon. As long as regular radios are supplied in cars and continue to sell for under $10, $20, $50 (with CD and tape), standard FM and AM will be around.

Years ago I remember people saying FM will be the death of AM.... not so... AM is no longer a mainstream music medium, but stations still thrive with talk, news and sports formats... and many like KSSK still play music.

I think HD radio sets will have to become more plentiful and definitely cheaper before anyone can say analog radio will go away...

Unless the government forces broadcasters to do that like how they are doing it with TV.

[DXer]

New HD radio stations?

Looked on the official HD radio website and it list's two more Honolulu FM's that have secondary HD radio channels. KIKI-FM HD2 "Old School" & KDNN-FM HD2 "Paradise Country". The site even links to the live web streams for these staions. Can anybody with an HD radio confirm these stations are actually on the air in Honolulu?

Aloha,
DXer

[Ninja]

Re: New HD radio stations?

Yep, both stations have been up for a few months.

[Random]

Re: New HD radio stations?

How many active HD radio channels do we have in Hawaii?

[Kaukura]

Re: New HD radio stations?

okay, i know this is a stupid question, but what do you need to listen to HD Radio stations? an HD tv? is there such thing as an HD radio?

[Ninja]

Re: New HD radio stations?

Right Now only the four Clear Channel FM stations are broadcasting in HD Radio.
Cox Radio has plans for it's 4 FM stations, but no ETA.
Visionary and Salem haven't announced any plans for their stations.

Yes, you need a HD radio to receive the stations.
HD radio is only a moniker, what it really is digital broadcasting on the FM band(although AM stations can also use the technology, no Hawaii stations will use it).
The technology is still evolving, 1st generations HD radios had bad tuners in them and had problems locking on the digital signal. 2nd generation HD radios are much improved. Best Buy offer a Sony HD radio that is a 2nd Gen. for around $200.

[Erika Engle]

Re: New HD radio stations?

Wrote about HD radio a couple of times, at least:

http://starbulletin.com/2007/04/03/business/engle.html

http://starbulletin.com/2007/08/19/business/engle.html

... and here's the aforementioned official HD radio Web site:

http://www.hdradioalliance.com/

Not sure how promptly it's updated once somebody's got their "stations between the stations" fired up.

[maximumradio]

HD Radio

Having had the opportunity to travel through and attempt to listen to HD radio in a number of Mainland markets I have come up with several observations. I find that my experience does in fact parallel the experience of others and hope that the industry will address the issues that I bring forth herein before HD becomes another repetition of the AM Stereo fiasco of the nineties.. I would invite responses to tell me how the HD experience is working in the Honolulu market and in the State in general.

1) Most retailers do not have working demo units. Retailers such as Circuit City and Best Buy would rather sell XM and Sirius and do not even have antennas on their car radio demo units and demo using Compact Disc. Same goes for Walmart and Radio Shack. Table model radios with HD are unable to get anything but the most powerful stations in any given market because of building construction and the HD signal does not get into the building. In one case it actually got into a Best Buy JVC car radio demo where an antenna had been placed in the ceiling but only three of the available Orlando HD signals would come through on FM and all sounded like bad internet streams. In no case have I been able to hear AM HD anywhere yet which I will address below.

2) Sales reps have no clue what HD is and how it works. At a Radio Shack I was told that it was a subscription service and then led to a working Sirius demo and told that satellite radio is much better than HD.

3) The complex nature of the receivers as far as tuning in the HD channels could cause one when driving to end up having to give up to avoid an accident. It requires several steps-not user friendly.

4) The cost of the receivers is high and the quality of the HD audio on a small speaker table radio is probably better in analog due to signal strength in a retail or office building or hotel type construction.

5) The HD AM system not only causes sideband interference that one notices on either side of a station broadcasting in HD but the actual HD signal is only listenable for a limited - very limited - distance from the transmitter site. Three examples are-and use of a map will show how limited the coverage in HD is: New York- 660 WFAN has an HD signal that does not get out more than 20 miles from their tower with a 50,000 watt signal. Orlando-The Radio Disney 990 signal can not be heard in a mall on the second floor at a Radio Shack store less than 10 miles from their towers. Los Angeles- On a car radio at LAX NONE of the AM HD signals could be received and some of these are flame thrower low on the AM dial 50,000 watt facilities. The interference is for example most noticed in Detroit where the mid dial is blanket by HD noise and a few stations all 40 kilohertz apart whereas in the pre HD AM days there were numerous stations that could be heard from Chicago and Canada as well as closer in Michigan that filled the dial. This is nothing more than legal interference.

6) The overall programming diversity is a very limited copy of what is available on satellite and more importantly something that can be duplicated in music programming with an IPOD or by burning an MP3 at home. The news and information that appears on satellite has yet to be moved to HD. If I want to-for example-want to listen to the CBC satellitte or online listening are my only options if I don't have satellite radio unless I want to "DX" at night and listen to it on my AM radio.

7) This is the first time that a company from the private sector-Ibiquity-has a sold aproduct that a broadcaster is forced to pay a licensing fee to use and that the government endorses....Other products meet standards and many manufacturers sell them but in this case it is a product that has a licensing fee unlike any other. It in fact comes with a fee so high that Harris-a transmitter manufacturer will finance the fee along with the purchase of a transmitter and other items necessary so as to transition a station to HD. In the end the analog audience can listen to the HD station because of the IBOC design which means "in band on channel" and a station owner who has paid depending on power of the transmiter and number of stations anywhere from $60,000 to several hundred thousand to make the transition to be broadcasting in HD may not gain any appreciable financial gain or listener gain because of the comedy of receiver quality and retail issues.

As I said these are the observations and opinions of one person who has spoken with others who have had the same experience. I would suggest that if you have the time and interest that you go out and listen and experiment with the equipment and report back here so we can compare notes.

[mel]

Re: HD Radio

A very ominous report Maximum... discourages me from considering picking up an HD set even though I would only spend money for the set and none of the progrmaming. What discourages me is the fact that signals cannot penetrate the typical building a big box retailer is in nor an office building.

I live in a condominium so I would be taking a $299 chance on an HD set maybe not working in my building and picking up all of the HD signals in my area. Here in Honolulu I think only 4 Clear Channel FMs are broadcasting in HD. I can listen to them online at the Clear Channel HD website, but that is not the same as listening to it on a radio.

Also I haven't seen any portable HD radio units. If a table top or component tuner can't work in my home than I certainly don't want to blow dollars on this. A portable may be more palatable, but so far I haven't seen anything. And I am not interested in a car set since my vehicle is so old that is not worth the upgrade.

And yes, the HD programming that I have heard on Clear Channel's website leave a lot to be desired. I get more diversity in my music selection via iTunes and my iPod.

As for satellite, I ain't buying that. I don't like monthly subscriptions beyond what I have... basic cable TV.

[craigwatanabe]

Re: HD Radio

You know it's amazing when people talk about AM radio. When I was in the service back in the late 70's I had an opportunity to listen to a AM radio that was built to receive AM the way it was transmitted. Damned thing sounded like FM! The General Dynamic's field engineer told me that AM can sound good but the typical consumer AM radio was never built to translate it into good sound. He built his own radio to the specs of how it should sound, and it sounded pretty damned good.

Then in 1982-82 KIKI AM 83 started to broadcast in AM Stereo but because of the limited availability of consumer-grade AM Stereo radios it never caught on.

[maximumradio]

Re: HD Radio

AM radio used to have close to unregulated bandwidth. Despite the limits of AM radios that came from Europe in the pre World War II days and in the fifties had AM reception that did sound very similar to FM. If anyone can find an old and working-doubtful but-Stromberg Carlson radio from those days the sound quality will amaze you. The car radios from the fifties and sixties are also proof that AM can sound great.
In the nineties the FCC required the "NRSC" standard for AM broadcasting which limited the audio bandwidth to 9khz. Audio at 9khz -even music-can still sound very decent and if a broadcaster uses some "toys" such as an Aphex aural exciter and Omnia processing the product that is broadcast is exceptional. Here is the problem: The receiver manufacturers have been neglecting AM both in terms of manufacturing radios with limited reception ability and audio that is to say the least trashy. When you add in the fact that AM stations must limit their audio to 5khz in order to broadcast HD-AM you get a product that is passable for talk radio but which makes music broadcasting just slightly more listenable over the air then it would be listening to music over a dial-up telephone. Some of the manufacturers of car radios have been among the major offenders in selling products that leave AM way behind FM in quality because of the placement of a 5khz ceiling on AM audio even though the radios are not HD equipped. Ford has changed the AM audio limits several times since 2000 which is why it will vary from year to year on a factory radio that looks identical with another. The Chrysler factory radios so far have been the best in overall AM audio. When it comes to reception Ford seems to have the best factory radios. Having said this I will state that the majority of aftermarket units have really neglected AM since their target market are mistakenly believed to be FM listeners. I will leave you with a question: If AM broadcasters were to revert to the 9khz NRSC limit and if manufacturers were to improve the quality of the tuning and audio circuitry in the radios would more listeners come back to AM even without HD-AM?

[craigwatanabe]

Re: HD Radio

yeah most people cannot distinguish between 9Khz and 12Khz, let alone 18Khz. And most broadcasters like myself are somewhat deaf already having worn headsets practically all my adult life. Which makes me wonder about the iPod generation and the use of earbuds almost daily, like radio broadcasters. I had to keep my phones loud so I could, "hear the mix".