Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 2

[joshuatree]

Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 2

Yeah, I really think HNL is going to lose way more passenger traffic with all the direct flights. That's great for the traveller, bad for Oahu. No sense spending billions of dollars to turn HNL into a "world class" airport if most tourists skip going through there in the first place. The only people who might grumble about the current ambiance of HNL might be the Japanese tourists, who are arriving in even lower numbers than in the past.

Miulang

Actually, that be even more reason for the airport to get a make over. From Oahu's POV, you gotta do something to retain and to attract other sources. Gotta start targeting the South Korean and Chinese markets. Besides, "world class" does not equal "mega-sized". I don't even think there's a need for more gates, just a renovation of the existing infrastructure.

[mel]

Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 2

On another note in the onging interisland airfare war, it seems that not too many people are taking advantage of the lower fares. I just flew on Aloha Airlines to Hilo yesterday and the plane was only 60% full. The 737-200 was almost half empty that we did not even have to taxi down the full length of the main runway in Honolulu. We just went to the first exit near the halfway point of the runway, waited for some incoming traffic to land, and took off using only half of the 12,000 ft. long runway. Smooth takeoff and bank to the right shortly after....

Aloha certainly did not make any money on this particular flight to Hilo yesterday afternoon.

[Miulang]

HERO disbanding?

According to Friday's PBN, the current leadership of HERO are seriously considering disbanding the group after the fiasco created by Mesa CEO Ornstein's receipt of a t-shirt inscribed with anti-Semitic expressions.

The spokesman for the group, an Aloha Airlines employee, offered his resignation to Aloha, but that resignation was declined.

The mystery of who bought the www.dontflygo.com URL has partially been solved: apparently a supporter of HERO bought the site and transferred hosting to China to cover up his/her identity.

The fate of the website and the HERO organization remain in limbo.

Miulang

[damontucker]

Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 2

Anyone been to that web site today!!!!

Looks like somethings serious is happening!!!!

If anyone has any knowledge of the removal of all of the lug nuts from one wheel of a red pickup truck in Aiea, Hawaii, or Lanikai, Hawaii on November 20th, 2006, please report this information to the Honolulu police immediately.

At dontflygo.com we certainly hope that this is not the kind of behavior that we should expect from go! Airlines and Mesa Airlines employees. The tire on the red pickup truck of a prominent HERO member separated from the vehicle while it was in motion. It was only through luck and timing that the police do not have a homicide investigation on their hands. However, the police are aware of the crime and are investigating. The perpetrator will be brought to justice.

http://www.dontflygo.com/

[Miulang]

Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 2

Anyone been to that web site today!!!!

Looks like somethings serious is happening!!!!


http://www.dontflygo.com/

If all the allegations are true, the police have been notified and will be investigating the incident. These are the kinds of tactics that show an extreme amount of immaturity and desperation on the part of the perpetrators.

Does anybody recall stuff like this happening when Mid Pacific and the other new competitors entered the interisland market in the past? I don't think so.

Mesa just reported an awful financial quarter: their profits were down by 2/3. They attributed most of the loss to unexpected training that needed to be given to pilots on the East Coast, but the somewhat disappointing load factors for go! aren't helping much either.

Miulang

[arturo_h]

Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 2

The 737-200 was almost half empty that we did not even have to taxi down the full length of the main runway in Honolulu. We just went to the first exit near the halfway point of the runway, waited for some incoming traffic to land, and took off using only half of the 12,000 ft. long runway. Smooth takeoff and bank to the right shortly after....

That's actually a pretty standard take-off for the 732, 717, go!'s CRJ-200, or Island Air’s Dash-8 even if they're full or not. Called a "mid-field take-off," the speed at which any of those smaller aircraft begin to "rotate" or begin lifting off the runway is only about 120-140 knots, which 6,000 ft is more than enough to do so. CRJ-200's in fact are used to taking off from runways as short as 5,000 ft. You most likely took off from taxiway L (Lima) which is the taxiway from the inter-island terminal to runway 8L so they have a little more than half the runway to take-off from (see attached picture). It's also a shorter taxi since you don't have to taxi all the way to the end of 8L which means a shorter flight. Actually most inter-island flights perform a mid-field take-offs unless there’s heavy traffic.



The bank to the right after take-off is also standard procedure since aircraft larger than a single or twin-engine prop plane cannot fly over the city and since taking-off from 8L (or 8R for that matter) will take you straight over the city, hence the right turn.

If anyone’s interested in listening to live ATC from HNL, LiveATC offers it. They have live streaming audio of Honolulu Tower, Approach, Departure, and Center ATC frequencies:
http://www.liveatc.net/feedindex.php?type=class-b
(HNL is at the bottom of the page)

-Arturo

[damontucker]

Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 2

If anyone’s interested in listening to live ATC from HNL, LiveATC offers it. They have live streaming audio of Honolulu Tower, Approach, Departure, and Center ATC frequencies:
http://www.liveatc.net/feedindex.php?type=class-b
(HNL is at the bottom of the page)

-Arturo

Thanks for the link...wish I would have had that on 9/11

[joshuatree]

Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 2

Anyone been to that web site today!!!!

Looks like somethings serious is happening!!!!


http://www.dontflygo.com/

I tried looking at other news sites just to see if I can find more detail on this "accident". I couldn't find anything?

Not to say it didn't happen, but could there be any spin and false accusations here? I'm not defending go! but to do something like a political assassination like you hear in the Mideast? That's crazy and makes this whole ongoing battle between the airlines like something out of a soap-op.

[aloha-anon]

Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 2

I tried looking at other news sites just to see if I can find more detail on this "accident". I couldn't find anything?

Not to say it didn't happen, but could there be any spin and false accusations here? I'm not defending go! but to do something like a political assassination like you hear in the Mideast? That's crazy and makes this whole ongoing battle between the airlines like something out of a soap-op.

Soap opera yes, spin and false accusations? Not from the HERO members. I have seen the reported damage to this pilots truck and even the police report. HPD opened up a "criminal tampering" case. This drivers quick reactions and a lot of help from above kept the accident from hurting anybody.

Mesa is desperate. They have too much money, pride and ego on the line in Hawaii now. i wouldn't put anything past these thugs.

[joshuatree]

Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 2

Soap opera yes, spin and false accusations? Not from the HERO members. I have seen the reported damage to this pilots truck and even the police report. HPD opened up a "criminal tampering" case. This drivers quick reactions and a lot of help from above kept the accident from hurting anybody.

Mesa is desperate. They have too much money, pride and ego on the line in Hawaii now. i wouldn't put anything past these thugs.

I know you're loyal to HERO but HERO's credibility is seriously damaged with the whole T-shirt incident. While the pilot's truck may be tampered and definitely should be investigated, I think it's quick and biased to assume somebody from Mesa had anything to do with it. Could be some vile pranksters, maybe the pilot had personal enemies, heck maybe other HERO members who are upset about the T-shirt incident did it. Let's just wait and see what the investigation turns up. And I just checked the dontflygo site, looks like it's back to normal and no mention of this truck incident, what's going on?

[damontucker]

Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 2

Soap opera yes, spin and false accusations? Not from the HERO members. I have seen the reported damage to this pilots truck and even the police report. HPD opened up a "criminal tampering" case. This drivers quick reactions and a lot of help from above kept the accident from hurting anybody.

Mesa is desperate. They have too much money, pride and ego on the line in Hawaii now. i wouldn't put anything past these thugs.

So are you saying basically that someone is attempting a possible murder over this? You have some good insight to this investigation it appears.

Care to expand on it?

Dang... I feel like this is a cliff hanger now!!!!

Hawaii soprano version?

Please no leave me hanging!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[808shooter]

Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 2

It's kinda sad on one hand that Mesa is using undermining tactics to drive AQ into the ground but on the other hand, I do like the pricing. Kinda like selling your soul to the devil.

I hope the lessons learned will be that for either Hawaiian or Aloha, they cannot keep island travelers at whatever airfare they want. I've been a frequent flyer on both airlines and really didn't like the way either was treating me as a customer, but what can you do? Where else could you go?

I agree wholeheartedly.

I am local. Born here. Raised here Work here. Will retire here.

Go is a mainland company but over time, will employ local people and by bringing competition to the islands, have lowered the cost of transportation to Hawaii. A benefit to all of us.

Aloha and Hawaiian have done a masterful job of spinning this into a "good hardworking, fair, local companies" vs the "big bad mainland airlines" What a load of crap. If Aloha and Hawaiian were serving the market fairly and had a real competitive market going on instead of a duopoly, Go! would never have had a chance to succeed here.

Competition is good.

Now I wish we had another refinery here for some wholesale gas pricing competition, and another major shipping competitor to lower transport costs.

[aloha-anon]

Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 2

So are you saying basically that someone is attempting a possible murder over this? You have some good insight to this investigation it appears.

Care to expand on it?

Dang... I feel like this is a cliff hanger now!!!!

Hawaii soprano version?

Please no leave me hanging!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

OK, I found this in the blogosphere... I don't know why it isn't on the dontflygo.com website or anything. E-mail them and ask!

http://airlinesofhawaii.blogspot.com/2006/11/go-vs.html

http://mesalies.blogspot.com/2006/11...in-hawaii.html

[808shooter]

Re: HERO disbanding?

According to Friday's PBN, the current leadership of HERO are seriously considering disbanding the group after the fiasco created by Mesa CEO Ornstein's receipt of a t-shirt inscribed with anti-Semitic expressions.

oh yes. I really feel for a pilot who works less than I do, makes 200K per year all because he belongs to a union that artificially boosts the cost of flying.

I'm for unions where workers who are unskilled may be unfairly exploited but come on... pilots? Jeez. Market forces should determine their comp.

Sheesh.

http://www.bizjournals.com/pacific/s...18/story3.html

The highest hourly wage of an Aloha pilot on an interisland flight is $109.09, compared with $108 for Island Air pilots.

yeah. that is over 200K per year. I feel real sorry for Aloha and Hawaiian.

http://www.mesa-air.com/pilots.asp

Compensation
Pilots are paid per flight hour as negotiated between the Air Line Pilots Association and the Company in accordance with the provisions of the Railway Labor Act. The Contract stipulates minimum pay of 70 hours per 28-day bid period and pilots are paid every two weeks. Current first year First Officer pay is $18.15 per flight hour for turboprops and $20.43 per flight hour for Regional Jets.

That is 40K per year. I really really feel bad for Aloha and Hawaiian that Go! is trying to force them to lower their cost structure - namely the labor cost.

If there are any Aloha or Hawaiian pilots out there that would like to correct me, I'd be happy to eat crow if any of this information is inaccurate.

[aloha-anon]

Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 2

I know you're loyal to HERO but HERO's credibility is seriously damaged with the whole T-shirt incident.

HEROS credibility is intact. Nobody believes the Mesa CEO. Notice no Anti-Defamation League inquirys or Jewish community outcry. Oh, maybe thats because HERO is led by two Jews! WTF!

This is just a schoolyard brawl between a bunch of Jewish kids all trying to spin the media their way. No Sopranos in Hawaii. Mesa is a billion dollar a year airline with a dedicated PR staff. HERO are just a bunch of local pilots who still have to fly their shifts and work like the rest of us. Amazing how easy it is for a few pilots i their spare time to upset the balance of spin and deceit from the Mesa media powerhouse.