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Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 2

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  • Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 2

    Originally posted by aloha-anon View Post
    There is a term called MGTOW or Max gross take-off Weight. I use it all the time. It is very easy to hit MGTOW on a full flight, add some bad weather where we are required to add holding fuel or divert fuel and we start bumping bags and pax because we would exceed MGTOW.
    If the AQ offer for no charge on 3rd checked-in bags makes each flight hit MGTOW, I would guess that AQ will just put less fuel in the plane for the flight to offset the weight increase. An interisland flight no where requires a full tank of fuel.

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    • Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 2

      Originally posted by joshuatree View Post
      If the AQ offer for no charge on 3rd checked-in bags makes each flight hit MGTOW, I would guess that AQ will just put less fuel in the plane for the flight to offset the weight increase. An interisland flight no where requires a full tank of fuel.
      Like I said carrying more fuel requires more fuel and no airline carries full fuel tanks just for the fun of it.

      Every flight anywhere in the world is worked backwards in whats called a flight plan. First you consider winds, weather and airspeed then you put on as much fuel as you need. FAA regs require enough fuel to make it to the destination, and fly for 45 minutes thereafter. Bad weather or oceanic trips add more fuel to the flight plan.

      I am sure there won't be many or any additional bags as any other December, just this year, you get to carry them for free on Aloha.
      GO WARRIORS!!

      Comment


      • Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 2

        since you guys know so much about fuel on airplanes....

        Is it true that the mist that you see behind the airplanes landing in Hilo sometimes is actually a dump of fuel that disipates supposedly before hitting the ground...?

        I hope I'm not spreading a rumor...and I certainly don't want to sound real stupid here... however, I heard in a classroom environment that often times pilots will dump fuel before landing and that they do it at the Hilo airport.

        Any knowledge to what I heard in an academic setting... brought up by another student?

        Comment


        • Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 2

          Originally posted by manoasurfer123 View Post
          since you guys know so much about fuel on airplanes....

          Is it true that the mist that you see behind the airplanes landing in Hilo sometimes is actually a dump of fuel that disipates supposedly before hitting the ground...?

          I hope I'm not spreading a rumor...and I certainly don't want to sound real stupid here... however, I heard in a classroom environment that often times pilots will dump fuel before landing and that they do it at the Hilo airport.

          Any knowledge to what I heard in an academic setting... brought up by another student?
          I don't believe that's true. Fuel is only dumped when a plane plans on making an emergency landing and has the time to make the dump. You try to get rid of the bulk of the fuel so should you crash and burn, well, at least you don't have a ton of fuel to make the fire bigger. And when fuel is dumped, they usually do it before the landing attempt is made, not while it's happening.

          The mist you are seeing is most likely condensation caused by the wings. I presume you mean something like this?

          http://tinyurl.com/ycgjea

          http://tinyurl.com/yh4pz7

          Comment


          • Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 2

            Actually what you say makes sense... because at the time they were training pilots and doing a lot of testing at the Hilo Airport... and I think part of that testing might have included dumping of fuel....

            I believe it happened right outside the hilo airport on the non residential side.

            This was brought up in class more than 14 -15 years ago...so my memory is kind of iffy... as I slept through a lot of my college classes!

            Comment


            • Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 2

              If it's testing, then yeah, that could have been fuel dumps. At least it wasn't a dump and burn. Otherwise, you would see something like this haha.

              http://tinyurl.com/y67v9z

              Comment


              • Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 2

                Originally posted by manoasurfer123 View Post
                since you guys know so much about fuel on airplanes....

                Is it true that the mist that you see behind the airplanes landing in Hilo sometimes is actually a dump of fuel that disipates supposedly before hitting the ground...?

                I hope I'm not spreading a rumor...and I certainly don't want to sound real stupid here... however, I heard in a classroom environment that often times pilots will dump fuel before landing and that they do it at the Hilo airport.

                Any knowledge to what I heard in an academic setting... brought up by another student?
                inter-island aircraft are incapable of dumping fuel. Only the older big 4-engine jets had this capability. 747 / 707 / DC-10 maybe... Not sure, but definitely not 717 or 737's.

                The mist is simply visible moisture from the humidity, combined with the wake vortices coming off the wingtips.
                GO WARRIORS!!

                Comment


                • Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 2

                  Originally posted by manoasurfer123 View Post
                  Actually what you say makes sense... because at the time they were training pilots and doing a lot of testing at the Hilo Airport... and I think part of that testing might have included dumping of fuel....

                  I believe it happened right outside the hilo airport on the non residential side.

                  This was brought up in class more than 14 -15 years ago...so my memory is kind of iffy... as I slept through a lot of my college classes!
                  Hilo Bay would be a horrible place to dump fuel with the predominant on shore trades the shoreline would have looked like an oil tanker wrecked nearby. Jet Fuel is nothing but kerosene.
                  GO WARRIORS!!

                  Comment


                  • Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 2

                    I'd like to know what everybody thinks about this quote the Mesa CEO made yesterday, now on the PR newswire and MSNBC.
                    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15953587

                    "The more they attack me personally, I'm not going to say it doesn't affect me," Ornstein said. "I'll be very frank. I don't like it. As a result, it may make us change our plan. If you guys want to make it to the death. Have it your way.

                    "We've been tame so far. Very tame."
                    I think it is pretty clear who the bully is around here. Same CEO was quoted last week in the PBN saying this,
                    http://pacific.bizjournals.com/pacif...20/story3.html
                    "Those kind of things are really bad karma. The people involved will sincerely wish they chose a different path."
                    The CEO Jonathan Ornstein has been accused in recent lawsuits that he started go! as retribution against Aloha after failed negotiations last year. With quotes like this, he is not really convincing anybody that he is anything other than a vengeful vindictive businessman who is intolerant of any criticism against him or his company.

                    Oh, and this is breaking news. Mesa is being sued once again, this time by their own pilots. Mesa pilots try to enforce arbitration award
                    GO WARRIORS!!

                    Comment


                    • Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 2

                      Interesting article on the interisle air competition.

                      Hawaiian Air on Goldman Sachs' radar
                      The local carrier is now being tracked by three mainland securities firms

                      Hawaiian Airlines' parent company has attracted the attention of Goldman Sachs, which yesterday became the third and by far most prominent securities firm to begin analyst coverage of the carrier...
                      It'll be interesting to see analysts' from Goldman fundamental analysis on Hawaiian and the interisland market in general.

                      Comment


                      • Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 2

                        Both Aloha and Hawaiian Air are now offering gift tickets and certificates this holiday season. Aloha's are actual e-tickets that can be used 12-1-06 to 12-31-07 and Hawaiian's are gift certificates that can be applied to ticket purchases, and have no expiration dates.

                        Details at this link: http://starbulletin.com/2006/11/30/b...s/story02.html

                        So is anyone going to bite on this? For interisland travel, these are slightly higher than the lowest promotional airfares hovering at around $29 to $39 OW.

                        These may be good buys if you are flying to the mainland or other non-Hawaii destinations.
                        I'm still here. Are you?

                        Comment


                        • Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 2

                          Here is an idea to save fuel.

                          Don't let people use the bathrooms

                          A Chinese airline has calculated that it takes a liter of fuel to flush the toilet at 30,000 feet and is urging passengers to go to the bathroom before they board....
                          http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/china_toilet_dc

                          "I can see it now... you can bring extra luggage as long as you go to the bathroom before passing the gate!"

                          Comment


                          • Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 2

                            This is very unfortunate:

                            Island Air lays off 65 employees, blames fare war
                            Star Bulletin:
                            http://starbulletin.com/breaking/breaking.php?id=5191

                            Honolulu Advertiser:
                            http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/ar...492378165.html

                            Pacific Business News:
                            http://www.bizjournals.com/pacific/s...ml?jst=b_ln_hl

                            -Arturo

                            Comment


                            • Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 2

                              This is unfortunate. But can Island Air blame everything entirely on go!? The five routes they are terminating, only the Honolulu-Lihue route does go! directly compete with Island Air. On the other hand, Aloha Air does compete with Island Air on the Kapalua-Kona and Kapalua-Lihue route directly. Just food for thought.

                              Comment


                              • Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 2

                                Originally posted by joshuatree View Post
                                On the other hand, Aloha Air does compete with Island Air on the Kapalua-Kona and Kapalua-Lihue route directly. Just food for thought.
                                How can that be? Aloha Airlines flies only jet aircraft and they cannot land in or take-off from Kapalua. The runway is too short.

                                If you mean routes to Kahului, then for sure Island Air is in competition with all local airlines flying to and from Maui's Kahului airport. Many people have opted to fly to Kahului instead of to Kapalua because the fares are better ($19 to $39 depending on the promotion, seat availability and airline). Island Air never matched some of the lowest prices on the same routes... therefore they lost passengers.

                                This morning's Advertiser article on Island Air.
                                I'm still here. Are you?

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