New smoking ban

[tikiyaki]

Re: New smoking ban

What if I'm employed in my dream job and I've been there for quite awhile, making great money, have set down roots in the community, am in it for the long haul...and the company decides I have to quit smoking or lose my job. This is happening now.

Do you smoke INSIDE or outside. If you smoke OUTSIDE, I don't see how this can be legal.

[blueyecicle]

Re: New smoking ban

Do you smoke INSIDE or outside. If you smoke OUTSIDE, I don't see how this can be legal.

There are many companies across the US now that are requiring you cannot be a smoker or you will be fired, evem on your own time and in your own home. Here is a small article about it. I have seen 2 news programs on it. they are not allowed to even smoke at home because that causes increases to insurance rates. That is the excuse the companies are using. It did happen to 2 women in Michigan.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/...in990617.shtml

http://www.diggersrealm.com/mt/archives/001427.html

[dick]

Re: New smoking ban

Not a rebuttal, rather, a curiousity question...
What if I'm employed in my dream job and I've been there for quite awhile, making great money, have set down roots in the community, am in it for the long haul...and a new employee who smokes is hired? Then what?

Most places that would allow smoking "on the job" are bars or clubs. That there hasn't been anyone smoking there for so long (long enough for you to set roots) would seem strange.

I get where you're coming from, but at the same time I don't.

Just on principle ? Well that says alot about you.

I value the rights of private establishments to set up their own rules, not have the government come in and ban a legal activity.

Why aren't cigarettes illegal? These sticks of death... the worst thing to happen to humanity. If they are so deadly, why are we still allowed to purchase and smoke them?

Oh, yeah, the taxes.

I can see banning smoking in government offices and buildings, since those are, technically "public." But a bar is not "public." They have right to refuse service to anyone. It's pretty lame that non-smokers go into a smoky bar and complain. I know places where everyone, owner, workers, 95% of the patrons smoke. It's pretty obvious that this is not the place for a non-smoker. Why go in there? Why apply for a job there?

[pzarquon]

Re: New smoking ban

Dick, having a libertarian streak, I'm with you on the "private establishments should be able to decide their smoking policy." Seems an "all-smokers" establishment would have a pretty good niche going. The problem is, private businesses are also places of employment, and employment law is messy. The argument goes that I should not be dissuaded from working at Dick's Bar just because Dick's Bar allows smoking and I don't smoke. It seems ridiculous -- like men suing over the right to work at Hooters -- especially in a strong economy when workers often have the luxury of choosing where they work... but there's the hang up.

As far as saying, "smoking isn't illegal," and hence shouldn't be singled out? Well, there are a lot of behaviors that aren't illegal that are still bad policy for a business. It's interesting, per the links above, that businesses are now disallowing smokers even if they keep their smoking far, far away from the workplace.

As far as comparing smoking to drinking, and the dangers inherent in both? True, a drunk coworker might be as great a danger to your safety and health as a smoker, if he shows up impaired. But the thing about smoking is, a smoker can impact my health just by smoking near me. Proximity to a drunk person isn't an issue (if he or she is, you know, stationery and not handling firearms or heavy machinery!).

[tutusue]

Re: New smoking ban

[...]It's pretty lame that non-smokers go into a smoky bar and complain.[...]

I'm a non-smoker who agrees with that! Both my parents chain smoked. That eventually set off an allergic reaction in me. They were very aware of the allergy. When I'd visit them on the mainland it was my choice to stay in their home or in a hotel. Since they lived in a resort area I always opted for their home! Their home was just that...theirs...in which to do whatever they pleased. Fortunately it was a fairly large home and my bedroom was the farthest from the den/tv room and kitchen. Whenever they'd light up I'd disappear to my room. They didn't like that. I even tried taking Benadryl to stay in the same room while they were smoking. That would knock me out and I'd end up sound asleep on the sofa!!! When they visited me in my home and light up I'd ask them to go to their room or outside. That was my home with my rules! They didn't like that either! I never berated them about their smoking or asked them to stop. Instead I made choices based on my health.

[damontucker]

Re: New smoking ban

Just a question to throw out there on measurements...

I'm thinking 20 feet is about the distance most of the stores in Waikiki are from the actual street Kalakaua... or somewhere damn close.

Does this mean all the Japanese tourists will have to quit walking around with their cigs in front of the stores??? Or walk on the street? Will there be designated smoking areas in Waikiki and Places like Chinatown? where there is not 20 feet to work with?

I don't know the actual measurement... but it's got to be something to think about.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: New smoking ban

Proximity to a drunk person isn't an issue (if he or she is, you know, stationery and not handling firearms or heavy machinery!).

If he or she is made of paper? Let's hope he or she doesn't smoke, then...

[Bard]

Re: New smoking ban

Like I and others have said countless times - if you don't like smoke, don't work at or go into places that allow it. Pretty simple, huh? I have yet to hear any kind of lucid rebuttal to that.

It's really simple actually. If you restricted smoking previously, you might get an extra customer or two who didn't like the smoke, but you'd cut out an entire section of your potential clientele. This actually encouraged everyone to allow smoking because you'd make more money. Ergo, if I refused to go places that allowed smoking I could basically never go out anywhere. The bans change that. That's what a lot of laws are for, to stop behavior that hurts people but is still profitable.

It's legal because I don't care what people do to themselves when they're not inflicting it on me. I'm totally ok with that. I bet it does raise insurance rates and such, but like I said I bet the smokers also get charged more for their insurance.

I invoke my original analogy: peeing is certainly legal but we don't allow people to just start peeing randomly in public, all over other people.* Why is that? Because it's bad for everyone.


*) This must not include bus and train stops here...

[Got2HaVKaYaNoW]

Re: New smoking ban

Nope. Go to a bar that doesn't allow smoking.

Eastside Grill is one example. I'm sure there are others.

It should be up to the owner to take his/her customers' opinions under advisement and make their own decision whether or not to allow smoking.

And BOARDRIDERS in Kailua doesn't allow smoking...there's actually a bunch of bars that no allow smoking inside, but then get one bar~I was smoking a cigarette from my car to the door & had one sign said, "NO SMOKING", so I finished my smoke, & I noticed a waitress lighting up & I asked her if they stop allowing customers to smoke inside & she said,"no, I'm just not allowed to smoke in front of customers." so I pointed to the sign~> and she said, hmm...I don't know why they put that up for everyone still smokes inside.

Hmm....

[joshuatree]

Re: New smoking ban

Personally, I'd prefer to be ahead of it.

Think it depends on which side is downwind at that given moment.

[GeckoGeek]

Re: New smoking ban

Why aren't cigarettes illegal? These sticks of death... the worst thing to happen to humanity. If they are so deadly, why are we still allowed to purchase and smoke them?

Oh, yeah, the taxes.

And tradition. They were with us before modern laws.

[GeckoGeek]

Re: New smoking ban

Like I and others have said countless times - if you don't like smoke, don't work at or go into places that allow it. Pretty simple, huh? I have yet to hear any kind of lucid rebuttal to that.

Because sometimes you really don't have a choice as to where you work. What if unemployment was high? There's only one place that's hiring that's in your profession. But they smoke. Then what? Change careers? Move away from Hawaii? If you could always promise that everyone had a choice, then that might be a valid argument. But you can't.

[craigwatanabe]

Re: New smoking ban

I agree. And I know of no profession that allows an alcoholic his/her 15min breaks on the job to go outside and get his/her buzz on, because of drinker's rights.

Smoking is a freedom, and a restricted one at that, not a right.

Restricted freedom...hmmm somehow that just doesn't sound like a good thing.

[craigwatanabe]

Re: New smoking ban

Why the ban on something that's legal? Makes no sense to me at all.

Like I and others have said countless times - if you don't like smoke, don't work at or go into places that allow it. Pretty simple, huh? I have yet to hear any kind of lucid rebuttal to that.

Well fireworks is legal but only during certain times, otherwise it's banned.

Smoking is legal but it's banned in certain areas for health reasons, like within proximity of schools, and now certain public places.

As for lucid rebuttals to where you opt to work or go to, I don't mind smokers so long as they keep their smoke inside their bodies and let it out someplace less offensive...kinda like farting. Blowing smoke into the air for the rest of us to breathe is like farting in an elevator, not a cool thing to do and everybody looks at you with disgust. Too bad they can't make cigarette smoke smell like fried chicken or roast pork!

Heck if barbecue smoke can smell sinfully delicious why can't they make cigarette smoke smell as good too? Imagine that

[glossyp]

Re: New smoking ban

I invoke my original analogy: peeing is certainly legal but we don't allow people to just start peeing randomly in public, all over other people.* Why is that? Because it's bad for everyone.


*) This must not include bus and train stops here...

Actually, public urination is not legal. You can be fined $200 or be required to do 40 hours of community service.