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  • Most residents don't want more hotels

    I know this is a big DUH, but a recent survey commissioned by the HTA showed that 76% of all residents polled don't want any more hotels built in Hawai'i, while at the same time they do want more tourism jobs created...
    Source

    While 74 percent of residents surveyed agreed with the statement "overall, tourism brings more benefits than problems," and 51 percent wanted more tourism jobs on the island, less than half said that tourism was generally good or that it made their quality of life better.

    The majority of residents surveyed, 78 percent, said that the island economy depends too much on tourism and 76 percent said that they don't want to see any more hotels built in Hawaii. Many, 62 percent, said they also believed that the island is "being run for tourists at the expense of local people."

    More than 1,600 Hawaii residents participated in the most recent poll, which was conducted in September through early November.
    So tourism is good, but it doesn't necessarily make people's quality of life any better? How can more tourism jobs be created without more development?

    Miulang
    "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

  • #2
    Re: Most residents don't want more hotels

    They could always do job growth Oregon union style. The other day I was driving by a construction zone, and they had a person standing at the barrier from the main street onto the side street. That's all they were doing -- standing there and looking around, bored.

    Good stuff!

    I see plenty of almost as bad stuff in the road construction too, like people holding up a sign that says "stop". Not flipping it around and coordinating traffic or anything, just holding up the sign. A post could've done just as well.

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    • #3
      Re: Most residents don't want more hotels

      Originally posted by Bard View Post
      They could always do job growth Oregon union style. The other day I was driving by a construction zone, and they had a person standing at the barrier from the main street onto the side street. That's all they were doing -- standing there and looking around, bored.

      Good stuff!

      I see plenty of almost as bad stuff in the road construction too, like people holding up a sign that says "stop". Not flipping it around and coordinating traffic or anything, just holding up the sign. A post could've done just as well.
      I can't tell you how many times I've worked overnight and well into the next day on a road project only to have motorists scream at me, "why don't you do this at night?". Could be you think you know what you're seeing but actually don't.
      “First we fought the preliminary round for the k***s and now we’re gonna fight the main event for the n*****s."
      http://hollywoodbitchslap.com/review...=416&printer=1

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      • #4
        Re: Most residents don't want more hotels

        Stifle the growth of hotels to stifle the growth of jobs.
        Stifle the development of high density, small unit living environments that would help to alleviate homelessness.

        Yup, it's a conspiracy by the Politics of NO to keep the poor and underpriveleged poorer and more underpriveleged.

        Do you see why liberalism promotes poverty yet??
        FutureNewsNetwork.com
        Energy answers are already here.

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        • #5
          Re: Most residents don't want more hotels

          Originally posted by timkona View Post
          Stifle the growth of hotels to stifle the growth of jobs.
          Stifle the development of high density, small unit living environments that would help to alleviate homelessness.

          Yup, it's a conspiracy by the Politics of NO to keep the poor and underpriveleged poorer and more underpriveleged.

          Do you see why liberalism promotes poverty yet??
          Well, if Kona keeps growing as fast as it has, then pretty soon you won't have any docs to take care of that growing population, either (see above thread in "The Laboratory" about all the docs closing up shop in Kona because of the high cost of living, malpractice insurance and the huge number of new residents in the area).

          Miulang
          "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

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          • #6
            Re: Most residents don't want more hotels

            Originally posted by sinjin View Post
            I can't tell you how many times I've worked overnight and well into the next day on a road project only to have motorists scream at me, "why don't you do this at night?". Could be you think you know what you're seeing but actually don't.
            That's also very true. And my wife pointed out that they might've been there just to talk with motorists and deal with any "exception" situations that might come up. Still thought it was funny

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            • #7
              Re: Most residents don't want more hotels

              Originally posted by Bard View Post
              They could always do job growth Oregon union style.
              You mean like how in Oregon, I can't pump gas to my own car but rather a gas attendant is required? My friend was so confused by that the first time he drove into Oregon, he tipped the guy after pumping gas.

              As for creating more jobs with no additional hotels....there are ways. But probably politics of no will prevail.

              1) Remove height restrictions so a hotel can be rebuilt taller and bigger. Translation - same number of hotels but high capacity thus more tourists, thus more jobs.

              2) Make places like Waikiki a 24 hr place. I mean really 24 hrs. Like all the stores and happening joints open non stop. Maybe toss in gambling. Translation, same number of hotels but more jobs to man the stores 24 hrs.

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              • #8
                Re: Most residents don't want more hotels

                But of course residents don't want more hotels. We, generally, don't stay in them. We also don't want *other people* to have more cars, or use more energy, or buy more property …

                Originally posted by joshuatree View Post
                You mean like how in Oregon, I can't pump gas to my own car but rather a gas attendant is required? My friend was so confused by that the first time he drove into Oregon, he tipped the guy after pumping gas.
                I *always* tip the folks who pump my gas, if I don't feel like doing it myself. It's my penalty for being too damn lazy, hot or tired! And I often go to Lex Brodie, where they always pump it for you, because it's close to work. They work their butts off for, I imagine, not much in pay -- the least I can do is give 'em four or five bucks for their efforts.

                Miulang, when I saw the thread title, I thought, "Big duh!" Then I clicked on your first post and cracked up laughing.

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                • #9
                  Re: Most residents don't want more hotels

                  Tourism...it's like that double edged sword and that it cuts both ways.

                  Tim kinda hit the nail on the head though. But let's look at the underlying problem. Overpopulation of our islands. People will stay as long as the economy will allow for their presence.

                  Less jobs means less people working. Some move, some become homeless.

                  For those who find work, the tax base becomes smaller but the subsidy base increases. When the tax pool of taxpayers cannot sustain the subsidy base due to higher taxes, more lose their jobs and then businesses fail as well.

                  What kind of businesses? Tourism businesses. And when they fail there is no need for more hotels. And for those hotels that folded up...well they make excellent places to live for our increasing homeless population.

                  So what happens for those who stuck it out with a job? They move in disgust eventually and finally the U.S. gives up and gives the place back to the Hawaiians. Yep it's all politics.
                  Life is what you make of it...so please read the instructions carefully.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Most residents don't want more hotels

                    I have an idea for increasing tourism jobs without having to build more hotels...legalize casino gambling in Hawai'i. Let the Native Hawaiians earn some income by setting up casinos on DHHL land. This would be good for Hawai'i in several ways:

                    1) Lots of local people go to LV and take their money with them. If they could go to a casino in town, much of the money would stay in the State.

                    2) The casino would provide more "tourism" jobs without having to build more hotels. It would also make Hawai'i an even more desirable tourist destination for many visitors.

                    3) The profits could help provide additional services for the Native Hawaiian population without having to rely on the State or the Feds. If enough money was made, maybe KSBE could completely eliminate tuition for any student accepted by the school, or create a pool of money to help build additional facilities to allow more students to study at KSBE. It might also keep the Bishop Estate from having to sell off any more of its land to developers.

                    4) The people who feel a need to smoke in a public place would be welcomed with open arms at these casinos.

                    The Seminole tribe in Florida just acquired most of the assets of the Hard Rock Cafe for almost $1 billion. Where did they get that kind of money? By being the first native tribe to get into the gaming business. Not all tribes have been as successful as the Seminoles, but if the kanaka maoli were allowed to start up casinos, and if they had the same kind of help the Seminoles had, my guess is that they would do very well for themselves.

                    Miulang

                    P.S. I suppose there are people who would be opposed to such a plan on moral grounds. But these are also probably the same people who drink alcohol and smoke cigarettes, too.
                    "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

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                    • #11
                      Re: Most residents don't want more hotels

                      It's possible for it to be done tastefully. That's always been the big objection here. They wanted to open a casino along the Columbia Gorge and it keeps getting shot down because no one wants to have one of those Vegas-style neon monstrosities along such a beautiful piece of nature (ignoring the fact, of course, that they've had some pretty serious architecture design done to make it blend in ).

                      Anyway, we visited Lincoln City and the casino there doesn't even look like a casino. You have to know where it is or follow the signs. I bet they could come up with some pretty neat and unique designs for a Hawai`i casino.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Most residents don't want more hotels

                        Originally posted by Miulang View Post
                        P.S. I suppose there are people who would be opposed to such a plan on moral grounds. But these are also probably the same people who drink alcohol and smoke cigarettes, too.
                        Actually, I think it's quite the opposite - it's those who don't drink or smoke.

                        You might want to look into the all the problems that gambling brings. Start with the fact that it's usually those with the least amount of money who gamble in the wild hope of making it big. Those who are reasonably rich don't bother with it since they know it's a looser.

                        As for all the resident going to Vegas, I think it's as much to get off the rock as it is to gamble. What local resident wants to spend their vacation in Waikiki? Again, I think Vegas is more about "doing something different". Right now is someplace else and doing something they can't do at home. Start gambling here, and the residents will find a new destination for "doing something different". So I think the argument for gambling here to keep the money in Hawaii is a weak one.
                        Last edited by GeckoGeek; December 10, 2006, 01:11 PM.

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                        • #13
                          Re: Most residents don't want more hotels

                          Originally posted by Miulang View Post
                          I have an idea for increasing tourism jobs without having to build more hotels...legalize casino gambling in Hawai'i. Let the Native Hawaiians earn some income by setting up casinos on DHHL land. This would be good for Hawai'i in several ways:
                          Gambling casinos, Miulang ? I think we could do better than that here. I certainly would not support any gambling establishments in Hawaii. I don't want Hawaii turning into another Vegas.

                          We could actually kick all the good old boys out of government, streamline the bureaucracy, try to attract real good, high paying jobs here. The real trouble here is the politics of no, and too much union/ plantation politics still prevalent in Hawaii.

                          Take a look at the people opposed the development of Mauna Kea and Haleakala for telescopes. Then you'll see a glimmer of why we can't diversify our economy. Things like the latter will have to change before we can ever
                          wean ourselves away from tourism.
                          Check out my blog on Kona issues :
                          The Kona Blog

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                          • #14
                            Re: Most residents don't want more hotels

                            Originally posted by Konaguy View Post
                            Gambling casinos, Miulang ? I think we could do better than that here. I certainly would not support any gambling establishments in Hawaii. I don't want Hawaii turning into another Vegas.

                            We could actually kick all the good old boys out of government, streamline the bureaucracy, try to attract real good, high paying jobs here. The real trouble here is the politics of no, and too much union/ plantation politics still prevalent in Hawaii.

                            Take a look at the people opposed the development of Mauna Kea and Haleakala for telescopes. Then you'll see a glimmer of why we can't diversify our economy. Things like the latter will have to change before we can ever
                            wean ourselves away from tourism.
                            I was just trying to brainstorm on ways the State could reconcile the results of the HTA poll where people said they didn't want any more hotels built but did want more tourism oriented jobs, nothing more, nothing less.

                            Outside of LV, Atlantic City and formerly Biloxi, MS before Hurricane Katrina, most places with Indian casinos have actually done a decent job of making the architecture blend in with the surroundings. Read about some of the Indian tribes in WA and OR who have casinos on their land. They all believe they are one step closer to controlling their own destinies by using the profits from the casinos to help their own people. This means they have to rely less on your and my tax dollars to help them economically. You're against this?

                            If you allow casino gambling, I would only allow them to be built on DHHL land, and only if the kanaka maoli wanted to get into that business (they actually might not, but let them decide this for themselves).

                            Stillaguamish Tribe (WA)
                            Tulalip Tribes (WA)
                            Umpqua Tribe (OR)

                            Hawai'i would probably become an even more desirable tourist destination than it is now because it would provide another venue for tourists who get bored with Waikiki or the natural beauty of Hawai'i. As for the argument that gambling casinos would create more gambling addicts, this wouldn't happen because, just like smoking, people are not forced to gamble. Even now, there are all kinds of illegal gambling activities (cockfights, etc.) which are not bringing any revenues into state coffers. And I actually think that State Lotteries are even more addictive for low income people than gambling casinos are.

                            Are locals going to LV primarily to get off their island? I dunno. Maybe one of the local papers could conduct a poll and see what their readers say about whether or not they would go to a gambling casino in Hawaii. I do know that lots of LV residents gamble (but not on the Strip, which is where most tourists go).

                            The ole boys will all die off eventually, to be replaced by a new set of ole boys: power corrupts--absolutely. Legislators who go into office with the best of intentions eventually get tempted by the perks. The only way around that is to set strict term limits so politicians can't get too comfortable.

                            Who is making the most noise about further development of Mauna Kea and Haleakala? Not the liberal tree hugging do-gooders. The people with the loudest voices are the kanaka maoli. Mauna Kea and Haleakala hold extreme cultural and religious significance for the First People of Hawai'i. If you are a church going Christian, would you want somebody to invade your church's property to put up a condo or office building without your permission? I don't think so.

                            Miulang
                            Last edited by Miulang; December 10, 2006, 03:10 PM.
                            "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

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                            • #15
                              Re: Most residents don't want more hotels

                              I'm sorry, I cannot support casino gambling here, even on DHHL land. Building casinos on DHHL land would go against the purpose of DHHL. It was supposed to be for Hawaiians getting a homestead. Yes DHHL has leased land out to commercial entities. But for the sole purpose to finance the enormous cost to build infrastructure on other DHHL lands.

                              On top of that there is simply too many legal issues with casinos.It would further mainlandize Hawaii. I've seen some of those Indian Casino's up in Washington. They look like they came straight out of Las Vegas (re: Tualip Tribe by Marysville).

                              My point is politics of NO, along with the fact Hawaii has a horrible business climate, onerous government bureaucracy/regulations, plantation politics and unions still wield a lot of control over here. Thus stifling innovative, diversifying industries like the telescopes on Haleakala and Mauna Kea. Maui High Performance Computing Center would certainly not exist if the Air Force did not have facilities up on Haleakala.

                              If allowing Casinos in Hawaii comes to a referendum vote, I'd vote no.
                              Last edited by Konaguy; December 10, 2006, 04:06 PM.
                              Check out my blog on Kona issues :
                              The Kona Blog

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