Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 4

[joshuatree]

Re: More Responding to Superfolly hype

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--So what if more people from Oahu go to the other islands vs the other way around?-- jtree

Where are these Oahu island-hoppers going to stay when they go off Qahu? With relatives? In timeshares? Vacation rentals? Hotels? And yet these would-be island-hoppers want to take their personal vehicle on the ferry to save money it would otherwise take to rent a vehicle? When time is money nothing could be more fun than for one (and one's children for some of us) to be paying to mingle for a few hours with hundreds of strangers eager to go below deck and rev up their engines to drive out of the belly of the beast, especially after a few rounds at the bar?

Again, no different than the current system. Where do Oahu island-hoppers stay right now when they take a flight over? Probably one of the choices you've listed - timeshares, vacation rentals, hotels, relatives, friends, etc.

Maybe bringing your own vehicle may decimate the rental companies. But the SF will bring business ops in other areas such as the new eco-friendly car wash I believe Miulang mentioned in Kahului. I don't see neighbor island gas stations losing business because for every rental gone, a personal vehicle takes its place.

Driving out of the ship's hold drunk after being at the bar? Well, what's to say someone hits the bar at the airport before the flight and then gets to destination with a rental while intoxicated? All are very real possibilities but again, the risk posed by SF is no greater or lesser than what we already have.

[Miulang]

Re: More Responding to Superfolly hype

Again, no different than the current system. Where do Oahu island-hoppers stay right now when they take a flight over? Probably one of the choices you've listed - timeshares, vacation rentals, hotels, relatives, friends, etc.

There is a perception (that I don't agree with) that some people who bring their cars over to Maui from Honolulu will forgo staying in a hotel, condo or ohana's house and try to camp on a beach in their car to try to save even more money. Generally, the Maui County cops are pretty diligent about rousting illegal campers from the limited beach camping areas (and there are really only a couple of beaches where camping is legal anyway) and they would probably be knocking on car windows if they saw a car parked overnight along side the road. Most of the other State and County beaches are for day use only (and some even are gated) so you couldn't park there overnight without arousing suspicion. So if Honolulu people want to camp at Kanaha Beach (Kahului), they would need to apply for camping permits in advance from the County. Right now, those permits are $3/person/night, and I think there's a max stay of 4 nights. You have to apply to the County for permits.

Upcountry, you used to be able to camp at Polipoli Springs, but I think that whole area may be closed right now due to the devastating forest fires late last year. There's also a campsite at Hosmer Grove, right outside Haleakala National Park, and there's a few cabins at Kipahulu outside of Hana, but I don't know if these are open right now because of the road situation.

Dunno if the Kahului WalMart would allow people to camp there for free (on CONUS, the WalMarts welcome people in campers to stay in their parking lots).

In any case, if there are any Honolulu folks considering car camping on Maui, I would strongly recommend that you plan carefully and in advance or you might be disappointed when that last minute weekend getaway to Maui turns into something less than optimal.

Miulang

[LikaNui]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 4

Maybe the third time will be the charm:

"I have two questions, primarily for Miulang (but I'd be interested in hearing other people's replies):

"1) Have you ever had a lengthy personal discussion with any SuperFerry official(s)? and

"2) Have you ever attended a public meeting in which the SuperFerry officials participated?

Simple "yes" or "no" answers are preferable, please."

[Keanu]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 4

I spoke to John Garibaldi a bunch of times at the Capitol as my former boss was Chair of the House Committee on Commerce and Consumer Protection for a bunch of years. John's a nice guy, I even gave him some hair tips.Having said that, I still don't like the Superferry.

[waioli kai]

Superfolly's Oahu footprint vs. non-Oahu enterprises and taxpayers

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>> The ferries’ (sic) business-friendly design includes high vehicle decks to accommodate large commercial vans and trucks, as well as refrigerator truck power outlets for fresh produce and dairy trucks (at no extra charge). <<

"Business friendly" indeed! Non-Oahu trucking outfits are going to love it? Non-Oahu lumber, furniture, produce outlets, farmers markets, flea markets are going to love it? Non-Oahu island county taxpayers are going to love it? Understaffed non-Oahu county police departments are going to love it? Overtaxed non-Oahu residents with already stressed, overburdened and underfuded non-Oahu social and physical infrastructures are going to love it?

How soon until Oahu-registered (via Honolulu County tax collections) private and commercil vehicles are sporting public relations stickers while driving over Oahu's neighbor islands' roads saying something to Oahu's neighbor island countys' taxpayers like: "Oahu is beautiful too. You're welcome to ferry over and use the roads Honolulu County taxes can buy." Is a 100 to 1 going to be too small a ratio of Oahu residents/vehicles to non-Oahu residents/vehicles flying/skimming interisland to resume their "H-4 experience"?

[waioli kai]

more snipets from HSF Holding Inc. Re: Superfolly's Oahu footprint vs. non-Oahu

More snipets from HSF Holding Inc.'s private trUSt:

-- A government-issued photo ID is required for every passenger who boards the ferry, whether as a walk-on, a driver, or a passenger in a vehicle[/FONT].--

A goverment? Any one government in particular or will any do?

--A valid certificate of ownership signed by the previous owner may be substituted for the current cerfiticate of registration for a vehicle purchased within 30 days of transportation.--

'May I see your bill of purchase please? Looks good enough to me. Go aboard."

--Passenger Deck: Where up to 866 people lounge in comfortable seats, move around the cabin or just enjoy the view (**unless they are crossing at night or inclimate weather, or there is just nothing to view but the seawater) during their crossing.--

-- ...where up to 866 people can lounge in comfortable seats, gather around tables to “talk story,” move around the cabin or just enjoy the view**.--

as a half dozen planes have in the meantime already arrived at the ferry's destination

--The aft cabin will feature another bar...--

where the average passenger is not likely to bump into:

John F. Lehman, Jr., founding partner of J.F. Lehman and Co., an investment group, and chairman of Hawaii Superferry and HSF Holding Inc.

David Cole, chairman and CEO of Maui Land & Pineapple Co.

John Dean, managing director of Tuputele Ventures fund, a small venture capital fund focusing on Hawaii and Silicon Valley.

Warren Haruki, president and CEO of Grove Farm and Lihue Land Co.

John Garibaldi, president and CEO of Hawaii Superferry.

Timothy Dick, vice chairman of Hawaii Superferry.

Terry White, executive vice president-operations of Hawaii Superferry

John Shirley, a consultant for J.F. Lehman

George Sawyer, founding partner of J.F. Lehman

Louis Mintz of J.F. Lehman.

Alex Harmanof of J.F. Lehman.

Tig Krekel, vice chairman of J.F. Lehman.

http://911review.org/Sept11Wiki/JfLehmanAndCo.shtml

http://www.newsmeat.com/fec/bystate_...st=Lehman]John

http://honoluluweekly.com/cover/2006/07/ship-of-fools/

[WindwardOahuRN]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 4

So I take it you won't be on the maiden voyage...

[waioli kai]

Conned us with Hawaii Superfolly

So I take it you won't be on the maiden voyage...

Not from CONUS. Not from Honolulu.... meanwhile

[waioli kai]

other JF Junior &amp; Company a$$et$ Re: Hawaii Superfolly - Chapter 4

.... meanwhile

>> Atlantic Marine is bought by JF Lehman for $170m.

ATLANTIC Marine, the privately held US shipbuilding and shiprepair group, has been sold to JF Lehman Company, a private equity firm controlled by the eponymous former Navy Secretary in the Reagan administration in the 1980s, writes Rajesh Joshi in New York.

The sale reportedly closed...Sept 2006 <<

added to

>> $200 million acquisition: JF Lehman & Co, Thomas Weisel Partners LLC, Thales Group, BNP Paribas SA, CIBC Inc

JF Lehman & Co and Thomas Weisel Capital Partners have acquired Thales Instruments from the Thales Group. BNP Paribas and CIBC Inc provided a senior secured credit facility in relation to the acquisition. Value: &#163;85 million
Closed: November 02 2001

and why not

>> LONDON, German-American DaimlerChrysler DCXGn.DE has received five private equity led bids for its 1.8 billion euro ($2.04 billion) aeroengine business, The Financial Times reported on Friday.

U.S. private equity firm JF Lehman, which had allied itself with Morgan Stanley MWD.N , has now joined forces with U.S. private equity group Kohlberg Kravis & Roberts to bid for MTU Aero Engines, the newspaper reported without citing its sources.

They join four others, including UK-based Doughty Hanson, the Carlyle Group, of the United States, and Blackstone Partners, it reported.

An unnamed fifth party is also thought to have submitted an offer, the newspaper said.

DaimlerChrysler, which wants to sell MTU Aero Engines to concentrate on its core autos business, has asked investment bank JP Morgan JPM.N to look for a buyer... << reuters.com (7/31/2003)

Something for all US not Hawaiians.

[WindwardOahuRN]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 4

Ah, whatever. It will work for some, not for others.

Bear in mind that the petition quest pretty much fell flat on its face. It appears that a majority of the population of all the islands wants to give it a try.

Judging from my hair salon, a very local establishment, there is much interest in the venture.

And, judging from past experience, hair salons are a very reliable indicator of public sentiment.

[Composite 2992]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 4

Maybe the Superferry will be a hit.

Maybe it'll fail catastrophically.

If some company wants to invest millions of dollars in a massive venture that won't spell an end to the world as we know it, and might even have some benefits, I say "go for it."

Want to save the world? Install a solar power system in your home. Walk or ride a bike to work. Take mass transit. Sweep the streets of debris that end up in the ocean via our storm drains. Clean out the drainage canals. Whatever.

But raising a lot of dust and noise about two ships isn't going to do it. Especially if other forms of transit already make as much or more negative impact as the proposed system will have.

By the way, airplanes do a whole lot more to harm the Earth's ecology than cars or trucks. The skies were unusually clear after 9/11. It's an established scientific fact. Jet traffic essentially creates a thin reflective veil around the Earth, and has a significant effect on the amount of solar radiation that reaches the Earth's surface.

So maybe the Superferry's ability to reduce some of that air traffic might be a blessing instead of a curse.

[waioli kai]

imperialUSt$' mentality ,, Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 4

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--If some company wants to invest millions of dollars in a massive venture that won't spell an end to the world as we know it, and might even have some benefits, I say "go for it." --composite

Employing such a precondition would have prohibited nothing that has ever happened since the beginning of recorded history and would prohibit nothing that could ever happen in the future that would be short of "an end to the world as we know it".

Perhaps you could define who is/are your "we". Your idea of "we" reads as more likely aligned with the mentality of imperialUSt$ for whom it has so far been a fundamental perception that "Nothing we do to others is going to bring about an end to our world , instead, it is quite the opposite: our world can only benefit and thrive from our investment$ ventures* in the lands of others."

*For Hawaii, investUSment$ ventures such as whaling and sandlewood harvesting, sugar, pineapple and cattle plantations, navy and military bases, tourists resorts, tour helicopters, freeways, superferries, real estate brokerages, development and construction companies, shopping/consumer mega-complexes, .... and what remains of Hawai'i that is not subject to existential jeopardy by the likes of "we"/US?

[Composite 2992]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 4

"Employing such a precondition would have prohibited nothing that has ever happened since the beginning of recorded history and would prohibit nothing that could ever happen in the future that would be short of 'an end to the world as we know it'".

Well, nuclear weapons is one development that wouldn't have happened.

Then there's the machine gun and heavy bombers to firebomb entire cities.

There's lots more but this is already going far off topic.

The Superferry is just another mode of transportation. While it might seem threatening and remarkable to some right now, there will come a time when it'll become part of everyday life. People will realize that the Superferry is not the apocalypse afloat.

We have an economic democracy in which people cast daily votes with their wallets. Don't like a business? Vote "no" and stay away from it. If enough people agree with your views, the business whithers away. Imperialist America may not be ideal, but what are the options?

Old Hawaii was not paradise. That myth needs to go away. Society lived mostly in harmony with its environment but only because edicts were strict and enforcement was harsh. As for the sad story about sandalwood, that was about powerful Hawaiians abusing defenseless Hawaiians. Haoles only bought the stuff. Hawaiians forced their own kind into slave labor.

Sugar, pineapple and cattle: who gave these barons the huge tracts of land?

In the kingdom of Hawaii all the authority was in the hands of a few. But that power was tenuous in the larger realm of world politics. If the US hadn't taken these islands, then some other power would have. The Hawaiian people didn't have the resources, manpower or technology to resist existing foreign powers. Kamehameha might have unified the islands but he didn't do it with the point of a spear. He did it with foreign help and a lot of gunpowder.

If you think imperialist America is evil, imagine if Hawaii had fallen under a Russian flag.

But I digress. Back to the point:

Compared to every other mode of transportation that is already active in our state, the Superferry's contribution to interisland traffic and commerce is a small percentage compared to the whole picture. And that's the point that many here are trying to make. The Superferry is not as big a deal as some have tried to make of it. And ultimately, the people will decide much of its fate.

[Keanu]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 4

Old Hawaii was not paradise. That myth needs to go away.

How do you know this? did you live during this time? did you speak with people who lived during this time? What one considers paradise is merely subjective.

If the US hadn't taken these islands, then some other power would have.

Typical baseless myth that some people try to perpetuate in order to glorify America's theft.

[Composite 2992]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 4

How do you know this? did you live during this time? did you speak with people who lived during this time? What one considers paradise is merely subjective.

Typical baseless myth that some people try to perpetuate in order to glorify America's theft.

Baseless myth? These are historical facts established through multiple recorded accounts! This was all was taught to kids in elementary and intermediate school. It can be found in academic texts.

And while the concept of paradise might be subjective, my version of paradise doesn't include forced labor.

[long off-topic post deleted]