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Thread: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 4

  1. #101

    Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 4

    Quote Originally Posted by LikaNui View Post
    Excuse me, but those barges are already here! Cruise on down to Honolulu Harbor and check 'em out.
    Um, Lika? They may be on Oahu, but they still ain't delivered to Maui or Kauai. YOU guys see them on Oahu, but the folks on Kauai and Maui don't. And I'm really kinda surprised that you're bashing two of the leading pro-business publications in Hawai'i.

    Miulang
    Last edited by Miulang; February 17th, 2007 at 07:39 PM.

  2. #102
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    Angry Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 4

    Quote Originally Posted by Miulang View Post
    And I'm really kinda surprised that you're bashing two of the leading pro-business publications in Hawai'i.
    Okay, now you've REALLY pissed me off, Miulang. I most clearly did NOT "bash" those publications! Your comment is slanderous and I demand an immediate public retraction and apology from you. You are totally out of line here.
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  3. #103
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    Angry Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 4

    Still waiting for that public retraction and apology for Miulang's slanderous statement...
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  4. #104
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    Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 4

    While I wait for Miulang’s apology and retraction…
    The Advertiser has been running a feature called The Hot Seat, which are weekly live online chats with various “elected leaders and people in the news”. Anyone can log in and participate in the chats, and ask questions.
    Last week’s guest was John Garibaldi, the President of the SuperFerry. An excerpt of that Hot Seat session was published at this link in today’s Advertiser, and it addresses (again) many of the questions the anti-ferry gang have asked. It’s also interesting to see that most of the questioners from the public seem to be in favor of the SuperFerry.
    You may also click on this Hot Spot link for the complete transcript of the session.
    (And props to our own JoshuaTree for participating in it!)
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    That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

  5. #105

    Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 4

    You were the one who was defaming the writers for Hawai'i Reporter and PBN, not me:

    That's why those reporters are still low-paid reporters. If they did know how to do a successful business model, they'd be rich... instead of reporting about people who ARE rich and ARE successful in a variety of businesses.
    I was merely summarizing what I read in both the Hawai'i Reporter and PBN. And I said nothing slanderous about YOU, Lika. I never personally attack anyone, not even when backed into a corner. I will debate with anyone on the issues, but I will not resort to name calling, because that gets no one anywhere. We can agree to disagree and just leave it at that. Maybe in this thread, others who have been ambivalent will be driven to do something (either advocate for or against HSF, it doesn't really matter), and that is my intent, but I do think it's important for people to express their own opinions, so I respect you for that.

    Miulang

    P.S. HSF will be holding a public forum on Feb. 21 on Maui to show the public exactly how the operation will work on Maui. Hopefully lots of people will attend and have their concerns addressed and maybe then the antis on Maui will shut up and go away.
    Last edited by Miulang; February 18th, 2007 at 10:31 AM.

  6. #106
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    Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 4

    Miulang, you're lying again. In post #101 you wrote:
    "I'm really kinda surprised that you're bashing two of the leading pro-business publications in Hawai'i." You did NOT say then that I was bashing the reporters (which I also wasn't), and which you now wrongly claim is what you said... you very clearly said originally that I was bashing the "publications".
    And since you refuse to retract or apologize, even when confronted with the truth, consider this a formal complaint to the Adminstrator about your slanderous comment.
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    That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

  7. #107

    Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 4

    Quote Originally Posted by LikaNui View Post
    Miulang, you're lying again. In post #101 you wrote:
    "I'm really kinda surprised that you're bashing two of the leading pro-business publications in Hawai'i." You did NOT say then that I was bashing the reporters (which I also wasn't), and which you now wrongly claim is what you said... you very clearly said originally that I was bashing the "publications".
    And since you refuse to retract or apologize, even when confronted with the truth, consider this a formal complaint to the Adminstrator about your slanderous comment.
    in your very own words: /splutter/ Explain your intent in describing the reporters for PBN and Hawai'i reporter in the fashion that you did, then? Was it just out of exasperation? And if it makes you happy, here's my apology: Lika, I apologize profusely for using words that were interpreted by you in a manner that was not intended by me. Danged if semantics aren't the cause of most of the world's problems!

    Miulang

  8. #108

    Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 4

    At last night's public hearing on Maui, Terry O'Halloran explained to a smaller than normal (for Superferry hearings, anyway) crowd the docking and loading and unloading procedures that will be used by HSF. HSF is making a slight modification to its check in/loading times to try to avoid the peak a.m. traffic times on Hana Hwy.

    The barge that will be the "dock" at Kahului Harbor will not be moved into place until June.

    Maui County is still proceeding with plans to do an EIS for harbor use by all potential customers for the year 2030.

    The next Kahului Harbor master plan, out to 2030, is being prepared and a draft environmental impact statement will be released about the time Superferry starts business.
    Miulang
    "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like. --Mark Twain

  9. #109
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    Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 4

    Opponents are backpedaling, and the SuperFerry is moving steadily forward, per the wishes of a clear majority of Hawai`i's residents.
    The Advertiser's front page, top story today is at this link with a headline of NEW STUDY WILL NOT DELAY SUPERFERRY and the story includes these bits:

    "The Hawai'i Superferry would be able to launch in July as planned while the state conducts an environmental study on its potential effect on state harbors, under a compromise agreed to by the state Senate yesterday.
    "Neighbor Island senators backed off a demand that the Superferry conduct an environmental impact statement even if it delayed the July launch."
    (...)
    "We've always felt that you cannot require one private company or entity to do an EIS, and not require that for others," said Scott Ishikawa, a Transportation Department spokesman.
    "Other interisland transportation companies, such as Young Brothers, did not have to do an environmental review."


    The story is also in today's Star-Bulletin at this link and includes these bits:

    "Hawaii Superferry opponents in the state Senate backed off attempts to halt the ferry service until an environmental impact statement can be done.
    "Instead, senators yesterday called for the state to complete an EIS while the Superferry is allowed to start service between Honolulu and Maui in July."
    (...)
    "The strong supporters realized that it was in everyone's interest to move the issue forward. With all the court challenges, just holding up the Superferry was not what we wanted to do," said Senate President Colleen Hanabusa (D, Nanakuli-Makua)."


    Full details of both stories are at the links, of course.
    Last edited by LikaNui; March 7th, 2007 at 06:36 AM.
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  10. #110

    Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 4

    Nice to see a reasonable compromise being reached.

  11. #111
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    Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 4

    Quote Originally Posted by joshuatree View Post
    Nice to see a reasonable compromise being reached.
    Indeed it is.
    There was a good editorial Wednesday in the Advertiser at this link about how politics is the basis for the recent legislation against the SuperFerry -- which the editorial calls "an obstructionist strategy" -- includes the following:

    "This is not how good planning is supposed to work. This is, however, how politics does work."
    (...)
    "It's a bad idea, not because the concerns about the environment are unreasonable, but because it's a needlessly draconian action where more workable solutions exist. Beyond its irrationality, the bill attempts an end-run on a process of decisions and appeals."
    (...)
    "It comes at the eleventh hour, years after the state's finding (upheld by the court) that an EIS is not required for the launch of the passenger-cargo-vehicle service between O'ahu and Maui, ultimately to link all major islands. This maneuver will waste inordinate amounts of taxpayers' money, including millions of dollars invested in harbor improvements that were approved, in part, because the Superferry was anticipated."
    (...)
    "It isn't necessary. Much of the study that an EIS would compel has already been done in the form of environmental assessments. There is nothing to stop the state from examining the data from these reports to mandate improvements that are necessary to protect public interests."


    Boldface highlights added by yours truly.
    The full text of the editorial is at the link provided above.
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    That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

  12. #112

    Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 4

    Quote Originally Posted by LikaNui View Post
    The Advertiser's front page, top story today ... with a headline of NEW STUDY WILL NOT DELAY SUPERFERRY
    Then you get today's S-B, with a headline of Revised bill could delay Superferry. Ai-ya.

    I was on a Hawaiian-music discussion website today, and someone there was pushing people to write letters against the Superferry - wrong time and place, imo, no matter where you fall on the issue.

  13. #113
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    Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 4

    Quote Originally Posted by Leo Lakio View Post
    Then you get today's S-B, with a headline of Revised bill could delay Superferry. Ai-ya.
    Yes, that article can be found at this link for those want to read it.
    The issue, as with so very many pieces of legislation, is that the wording of the bill wasn't thought through clearly and is therefore confusing and subject to interpretation.
    Regarding that confusion, the article says:
    "It was clear what the Senate intent was," Sen. Gary Hooser (D, Kauai) said."
    The problem is interpreting that "intent". Why didn't they just word it properly in the first place instead of leaving it open to interpretation?
    The article also includes:
    "The only Democrat to vote against the Superferry bill yesterday in the Senate was former Senate President Robert Bunda, who said the objections to the private ferry were "based on politics."
    "Singling out the Superferry for special impact statements is not the right thing to do," Bunda said.
    "Republicans also objected to the bill. Sen. Sam Slom said the Superferry has "jumped through hoops" to comply with legislative criticism
    ."

    Political games, with the citizens and the SuperFerry itself as the victims of the 'game'. Pfffbbbtttt.
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    That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

  14. #114

    Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 4

    At least the State is owning up to some of the responsibility for this debacle by paying for the cost of the EIS that needs to be done anyway for the entire harbor in preparation for the Harbor Master Plan for the Year 2030, rather than saying that HSF has to bear the cost of doing one (and thereby getting rid of the perception that HSF was being singled out).

    HSF should welcome this EIS because it will prove (or not) everything that they've claimed thus far, and since it is a general EIS for the entire harbor, it means that YB and NCL would have to provide mitigation for their parts of the harbor if the EIS found deficiencies.

    I think after the initial rush because of its novelty, traffic on HSF will dwindle dramatically except on the weekends. Whether that will be enough to keep HSF afloat (pun intended) remains to be seen.

    I thought it was humorous that one of the senators made a comment that if HSF does fall flat, the Feds will have to assume the liability for the failure and that the barges could be reused for other purposes, since the Federal government is the primary financing agency for this project, nevermind that the State is sinking $40 million in this project too.

    Miulang

    P.S. Speaking of EIS for Kahului Harbor, here is a story in today's Maui News about some of the proposals for modifying usage of the harbor for the year 2030. The HSF dock may get moved to the west side of the harbor, away from YB operations.
    Last edited by Miulang; March 9th, 2007 at 01:32 PM.
    "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like. --Mark Twain

  15. #115
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    Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 4

    Quote Originally Posted by Miulang View Post
    I think after the initial rush because of its novelty, traffic on HSF will dwindle dramatically except on the weekends.
    Why on earth would you think that?!??
    In dozens and dozens of your posts in this thread, Miulang, you've written the "I guess" and "Maybe" and "Perhaps" suppositions in your never-ending attempt to make the SuperFerry look bad... and not a single one of your 'guesses' has yet to come true. You're like the little boy who cried "Wolf!" and, like that little boy, you've reached the point where your credibility simply can't be believed on this issue.
    And you've been told before that you're pulling a "Chicken Little" with your endless "The sky is gonna fall! The sky is gonna fall!" Enough, already.
    And why do you think there won't be passengers on weekdays, anyway? Do you think locals will only use it on weekends? Do you think tourists will only use it on weekends? (And if so, why?)
    Why would traffic dwindle at all, much less "dramatically"?
    Sheesh.
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  16. #116
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    Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 4

    Quote Originally Posted by LikaNui View Post
    The issue, as with so very many pieces of legislation, is that the wording of the bill wasn't thought through clearly and is therefore confusing and subject to interpretation.
    Regarding that confusion, the article says:
    "It was clear what the Senate intent was," Sen. Gary Hooser (D, Kauai) said."
    The problem is interpreting that "intent". Why didn't they just word it properly in the first place instead of leaving it open to interpretation?
    And in case anyone hasn't figured out the obvious, it is those kind of intent/interpretation problems that practically guarantee lawsuits from one side or the other... or both.
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    That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

  17. #117

    Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 4

    Quote Originally Posted by LikaNui View Post
    And why do you think there won't be passengers on weekdays, anyway? Do you think locals will only use it on weekends? Do you think tourists will only use it on weekends? (And if so, why?)
    Why would traffic dwindle at all, much less "dramatically"?
    My prediction will be traffic volumes that mimic what the current traffic volume patterns are for the interisland airlines. And it be interesting to see how much of the interisland airline pie the ferry can grab.

    It also be interesting to see how business shipping patterns will be affected. Less business for YB? The same? What about for Aloha Cargo?

  18. #118
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    Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 4

    Quote Originally Posted by joshuatree View Post
    My prediction will be traffic volumes that mimic what the current traffic volume patterns are for the interisland airlines.
    Now there's a prediction I agree with, based on simple logic and common sense.

    And it be interesting to see how much of the interisland airline pie the ferry can grab. It also be interesting to see how business shipping patterns will be affected. Less business for YB? The same? What about for Aloha Cargo?
    Gee, I wonder if the inter-island airlines and the shipping and barge companies had anything to do with trying to throw roadblocks at the SuperFerry? Or in financing those few who are trying these last-minute, underhanded, and political ploys?
    Ya know, there may well be violations of the RICO Act there. Hmmmm...
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    That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

  19. #119

    Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 4

    Quote Originally Posted by LikaNui View Post
    And why do you think there won't be passengers on weekdays, anyway? Do you think locals will only use it on weekends? Do you think tourists will only use it on weekends? (And if so, why?)
    Why would traffic dwindle at all, much less "dramatically"?
    Sheesh.
    If passengers are coming over "just for the weekend", they'd have to leave on Friday a.m. for the Neighbor Islands in order to have a "full" weekend because of the schedule. Returning home, they'd have to leave Monday morning because of the way the runs are scheduled. It doesn't make economic sense for weekend passengers with cars. It makes sense for people wanting to visit for a week or more. I doubt many "tourists" will use it because one of the major reasons why the ferry will be popular is for taking cars to other islands. I seriously doubt many "tourists" (e.g. from the West Coast) would want to use the ferry to island hop. Takes too long and with the airfares being what they are, it'd be cheaper and take less time to fly between the islands and the currently proposed routes aren't very convenient. Also, most "tourists" according to the latest HCVB stats, now visit only one island, and the majority are going to the Neighbor Islands, now that there are direct flights from the West Coast.

    So the majority of passengers will be locals who have cars who want to avoid paying for extra baggage on airplanes and who are staying for longer than a weekend. (Same thing happens on the Moloka'i Princess ferry...the locals who use it take HUGE boxes and coolers on board the ferry because there's no limit on baggage...saw it happening at K'kai Harbor. I was amazed at the stuff those passengers hauled aboard).

    Since service hasn't started yet, Lika, EVERYTHING is up for conjecture. Even what you say is up for debate (including your stated "fact" that the majority of residents on all islands are for the Superferry). I'm just damned glad that the EIS is happening and that the State is paying for it, and not because of Superferry, but because of the serious concerns about delivery of critical shipments for the RESIDENTS of Maui. If you took the time to read today's story in the Maui News, you will understand why people of Maui are so concerned about how the space in that harbor is used: they get their fuel, their food, and other critical supplies plus the NCL tourists and soon HSF passengers, all through that one harbor. If any of the proposed plans for the Year 2030 is approved after the EIS, there will be significant disruption for all users of that harbor, and for quite a long while if parts of the harbor need to be dredged.

    Miulang


    P.S, It's actually BETTER for people to travel to the Neighbor Islands on the weekends because commuter traffic will be less impacted than during the week.
    Last edited by Miulang; March 9th, 2007 at 05:59 PM.
    "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like. --Mark Twain

  20. #120
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    Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 4

    Quote Originally Posted by Miulang View Post
    If passengers are coming over "just for the weekend", they'd have to leave (...)
    [/sigh] And do you have any idea how many folks here frequently take long weekends?
    Further, almost everyone I know has family on the various outer islands, and they plan to use the SuperFerry a LOT to visit their families OFTEN. They do not plan to take cars, as their families will be picking them up and dropping them off, just as they will do when their families visit them.

    I doubt many "tourists" will use it because one of the major reasons why the ferry will be popular is for taking cars to other islands.
    Pure speculation. Again. And twice in one sentence, even.

    I seriously doubt many "tourists" (e.g. from the West Coast) would want to use the ferry to island hop.
    Pure speculation. Again.

    Takes too long and with the airfares being what they are, it'd be cheaper and take less time to fly between the islands
    Airfares will not be ridiculously low for long, unless of course an airline is intentionally looking to file bankruptcy. And those ridiculously low airfares also come with a lot of conditions that most people can't meet.

    and the currently proposed routes aren't very convenient.
    Gee, did someone suddenly build tens of airports on each island?

    So the majority of passengers will be (...)
    Pure speculation. AGAIN.

    If you took the time to read today's story in the Maui News, you will understand why people of Maui are so concerned
    How MANY people on Maui are concerned? Your statement implies that ALL the people of Maui are concerned, yet it could be just two people, or 20 people, or 200, or 2,000.
    My signature line (below) is a proven fact -- A miniscule one-half of one percent of the total adult population of Hawai`i was concerned enough to sign the various petitions.
    Proven facts trump biased speculation every... single... time.
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  21. #121
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    Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 4

    Quote Originally Posted by LikaNui View Post
    Airfares will not be ridiculously low for long, unless of course an airline is intentionally looking to file bankruptcy. And those ridiculously low airfares also come with a lot of conditions that most people can't meet.
    Well, well WELL!!!
    I just called Hawaiian Air at 1-800-367-5320 and spoke to a reservations agent named Mary Belle (or Maribel). I asked her about the $29 one-way flights from Honolulu to Maui and she said there were certain restrictions and not many of those seats were available.
    I asked her "How many $29 seats are available on each flight?"
    She laughed out loud.
    "You're the first person to ever ask that," she said. "We've all been wondering when someone would figure it out, because THERE ARE ONLY SEVEN $29 SEATS ON EACH FLIGHT!"

    But on SuperFerry, every single ticket costs the same.
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    That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

  22. #122

    Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 4

    With all the wild and unverified spectulation regarding the negative impact of the Superferry, it should be banned. I also think aircraft and cars should have been banned from Hawaii from the start.

    Hawaii should have restricted travel to the Lurline and other ships. Air travel made it much too convenient to get here and look a the effects: overpopulation.

    If it weren't for airplanes and cars, Hawaii would continue to be one of the most isolated spots on Earth and we wouldn't need H1, H2 or H3. Waikiki would have just two hotels alongside a bunch of privately owned homes. Rail transit would be a trolley drawn by horses and not cost billions of dollars. And we wouldn't be experiencing a pedestrian and auto fatality every other day.

    The Superferry is too new and too different. It might be too successful and do bad things to local traffic. It might fail and cost us a lot of money. It'll kill whales and displace canoe paddlers. Let's require an EIS for every single new vehicle or vessel that's brought into this state. Let's start with the Hummer! And don't forget those gigantic cruise ships that dwarf Aloha Tower!!

    Put a stop to anything different or innovative. Ban them all!

  23. #123
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    Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 4

    Good god, this is getting lame.

    As a person who is from Maui, and goes there quite frequently, and has family there, the ferry can only be seen as a good thing. We all can't wait for it to start.

    "Oh, but the traffic, and the foreign species," and the whateverelse you wanna weep and wail about...

    Get real... barges ship cars inter-island all the time. I've shipped countless cars, and never once were they "inspected" for critters. Drive that thing on - who gives a rip about mud. So that arguement is moot. The only thing that might change is how banks "require" that you get "permission" to ship cars on loan interisland. Which has always been a semi-retarded requirement since you can drive a car which is on a loan anywhere in the 49 other states without "permission" from the bank.

    Next, traffic. "Oh geez, all the increased traffic..." Um, we'll be driving our own cars and not renting... ever think about that? It's my car and not a rental... the rental will be in the lot, and my car will be going up Haleakala Hwy. I don't see an increase in traffic.

    It's a sad commentary that this EIS is being waved around. It's even more sad that people are jumping on the band wagon. The ferry did everything it was legally required to do. And now this garbage? Come on.

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    Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 4

    Composite2992 -- you had me going there for a minute, until I realized that your post was completely tongue-in-cheek. Very amusing. Well done.
    And JoshuaTree and Dick, thank you for also being voices of logic and reason.
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    That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

  25. #125

    Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 4

    The EIS IS HAPPENING. Period. No way it's not going to happen. Too bad if HSF is threatening to delay the start date, because the Legislature is certainly not saying that they will do anything to prevent HSF from starting in July.

    Dick: Where do you think people waiting to pick up their ohana are going to be able to park? Certainly not in the same area as the cars waiting to board the ferry! If you've ever been down at Kahului Harbor when the Pride of Aloha docks, you will see the massive congestion from rental cars and taxis crammed into that small area. Like the cruise ship passengers, there will be a a bit of a walk for foot passengers to get anywhere, and in its current configuration, there will be competition between pedestrians and cars. And you guys in Honolulu know what happens when pedestrians and cars have to share the same road.

    I notice that many of the pro-people are Honolulu residents with ohana on the Neighbor Islands. Good for you that you'll be able to take your cars with you. How many times a year do you think you'll be making that trip?

    Miulang
    "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like. --Mark Twain

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