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Thread: Hate Crime?

  1. #226

    Default Re: Hate Crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by kamuelakea View Post
    To the first, no it would be a lie. I excuse mainlanders for being igorant of the difference between a Hawaiian and a Hawaii resident, I don't excuse Hawaii residents who are so shamelessly trying to rip off the Native Hawaiian identity.

    That's like saying you shouldn't expect most Americans to know the difference between a modern United States American and a Native American Indian. We would call them fools.

    To the second, if you are less than 50% of any race then IMHO you really should stop letting that ethnicity be your answer to "What are you?". Its dishonest and minimum and in the case of Native Hawaiians, its psychological genocide. Why not just be honest and say you're, mixed race, cosmopolitan, poi dog, just American etc.? Why list Hawaiian if 31 out of 32 of your Great Great Grandparents were NOT Hawaiian. Silly.
    How is it a lie when the State is called Hawaii, therefore, the residents of that state is referred to as "Hawaiians"? Much like residents of California are Californians or Texas with Texans? Of course, knowing the history and the existence of the Kingdom of Hawaii, it isn't the wisest thing for a non Kanaka Maoli to say he/she is "Hawaiian". But it's not a lie. I already pointed out the cause of all this grief, that the State is named the same as the Kingdom. There is no issue with Americans and Native American Indians because those Indians never called themselves Americans, they had names that the US never used to name a state - Sioux, Cherokee, etc. And learning here that Kanaka Maoli rather refer to themselves as Kanaka Maoli, perhaps a greater push on the term "Kanaka Maoli" would help eliminate this problem?

    To the second, how is it silly if 31 of your 32 ancestors were Japanese and 1 was Hawaiian? Would the term Japanese Hawaiian be wrong? Does that not indicate mixed race, cosmopolitan, poi dog, etc? And why did you use poi dog? Wouldn't you be upset that person used a Hawaiian word like poi to describe themselves?

  2. #227
    kamuelakea Guest

    Default Re: Hate Crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by Miulang View Post
    Most of the time, it's not so much an expat wanting to refer to themself as "Hawaiian" as it is having a nonlocal person mistakenly identify an expat as "Hawaiian" (when they are not) and the expat's frustration at trying to explain the difference between being "from Hawai'i" but "not being Hawaiian" and a Native Hawaiian.
    Miulang
    I know what you mean and agree that it can become a 2 way problem. Especially in the college environment, the Hawaii kids end up being called "The Hawaiians" by the mainlanders. So what you say is true.

    However, if you feel like answering the question, I don't think saying, "I'm Chinese, not Hawaiians, Hawaiians are native peoples similar to Native American Indians" is that difficult. It would get the point across everytime.

  3. #228

    Default Re: Hate Crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by kamuelakea View Post
    However, if you feel like answering the question, I don't think saying, "I'm Chinese, not Hawaiians, Hawaiians are native peoples similar to Native American Indians" is that difficult. It would get the point across everytime.
    I tried that, and I still used to get (when I lived in Boston): "Well, if you were born in Hawai'i, then you MUST BE Hawaiian!" It was like a broken record. No matter how I put it, I would forever be "Hawaiian" in their eyes. At that point, I just gave up.

    Miulang
    "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

  4. #229

    Default Re: Hate Crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by Miulang View Post
    I tried that, and I still used to get (when I lived in Boston): "Well, if you were born in Hawai'i, then you MUST BE Hawaiian!" It was like a broken record. No matter how I put it, I would forever be "Hawaiian" in their eyes. At that point, I just gave up.

    Miulang
    Exactly.

    I had the same problem when I first arrived to the mainland. Everybody said "you're Hawaiian!" and I replied, "no, I'm Local." I would try to explain the difference between Native Hawaiians and Locals, how Hawaiians are considered Locals but not every Local is Hawaiian, etc. At the end of my mini-lecture, people would always say, "but, most Hawaiians are Asian, right?" After about 2 years of that I just gave up. If they want to think of me as "Hawaiian" then that's what I am. Personally, I don't see what's so complicated about it, but the typical mainlander can't/unwilling to wrap their brain around the subject.

    In Portland, I'm "Samoan" (and I don't have any Polynesian blood) until I told them that I am "Asian" (actually I am mixed but whatever), so now I am Asian. Maybe that is a step up from Los Angeles. Possibly.

    So I can relate to the "Hawaiians" aka Locals who might have given up as well and just became Hawaiian. If you can't beat them, join them.

    But I think that Kamuelakea's own bias/racism against Local Asians sure came out, don't you think?

  5. #230
    kamuelakea Guest

    Default Re: Hate Crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by mungbeansoup View Post
    Exactly.

    I had the same problem when I first arrived to the mainland. Everybody said "you're Hawaiian!" and I replied, "no, I'm Local."


    So I can relate to the "Hawaiians" aka Locals who might have given up as well and just became Hawaiian. If you can't beat them, join them.
    What is "Local" to a mainlander? Local means anyone who lives in a particular zipcode. Of course they are confused because you are confused.
    Why so hard to just say, I am CHINESE, or repeat after me Mungbeansoup, I am JAPANESE, I am PORTUGUESE, I am FILIPINO. See? Not too hard. Time to stop the charade. Time to honor your true ancestors. Time to get in touch with yourself.

    You are another faux-neo-Hawaiian-Wannabe. Get over it mungbeansoup, you will die never being Hawaiian no matter what you pretend to be.

    I know your kind well mungbeansoup because I used to be like you. But now I am free at last, free at last, lord almighty free at last!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

  6. #231
    kamuelakea Guest

    Default Re: Hate Crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by Miulang View Post
    I tried that, and I still used to get (when I lived in Boston): "Well, if you were born in Hawai'i, then you MUST BE Hawaiian!" It was like a broken record. No matter how I put it, I would forever be "Hawaiian" in their eyes. At that point, I just gave up.

    Miulang

    You guyz just don't try hard enough. Use the Indian analogy. Everybody knows what an Indian is and everybody knows they didn't come on the Mayflower with the Pilgrams but were in North America for thousands of years before anyone else.

    Easy. Repeat after me Miulang.

    Stranger: Are you Hawaiian?

    Miulang: No, no, I am of Chinese decent, I am not Hawaiian. Hawaiians are to Hawaii what Indians are the lower 48 or Eskimos are to Alaska. I lived in Hawaii but I am not a Hawaiian.

    See?

    Most people will get that. I tell people that all the time as I explain the make up of Hawaii. They get it.

  7. #232

    Default Re: Hate Crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by kamuelakea View Post
    You guyz just don't try hard enough. Use the Indian analogy. Everybody knows what an Indian is and everybody knows they didn't come on the Mayflower with the Pilgrams but were in North America for thousands of years before anyone else.

    Easy. Repeat after me Miulang.

    Stranger: Are you Hawaiian?

    Miulang: No, no, I am of Chinese decent, I am not Hawaiian. Hawaiians are to Hawaii what Indians are the lower 48 or Eskimos are to Alaska. I lived in Hawaii but I am not a Hawaiian.

    See?

    Most people will get that. I tell people that all the time as I explain the make up of Hawaii. They get it.
    Kam, I am NOT Chinese! I have been called Hawaiian, Mexican, Indian, Eskimo, Italian among other things. No matter WHAT I say, I am Hawaiian to those people when I tell them I was born in Hawai'i. The people who I interact with on a constant basis know I'm not kanaka maoli, it's those chance encounters with idiots who I'll never see again that make me mad. What am I supposed to say? Lie and tell them I wasn't born in Hawai'i so they don't keep referring to me as Hawaiian??? That's a double lie, as far as I'm concerned.

    Miulang
    "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

  8. #233

    Default Re: Hate Crime?

    What about an Indian from India living in America and when approached about his/her background, replies, "I'm Indian." Damn that poser right? How dare he/she pretend to be a Native American.

  9. #234
    kamuelakea Guest

    Default Re: Hate Crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by Miulang View Post
    What am I supposed to say? Lie and tell them I wasn't born in Hawai'i so they don't keep referring to me as Hawaiian??? That's a double lie, as far as I'm concerned.Miulang
    The simple one, two punch of: I am (FILL IN THE BLANK), I am not Hawaiian, and Hawaiians are like Indians.

    Now if the dummy doesn't get it, then you have 2 choices, walk away or take this as an opportunity to educate people on the plight of Native Hawaiians. Because Hawaiians are not like Indians in that they don't enjoy the same recognition and independence.

    So if they are really that dumb and if they irritate you that much, then by all means take them to the next steps.

    Tell them about the Hawaiian nation, independent, peaceful, with numerous treaties with many governments including the United States. Tell them about the overthrow, tell them about Cleveland, tell them about the apology bill, tell them about the social and economic and cultural plight of the Native Hawaiians.

    For the uneducumatables, I tell them, you ever see Isreal Kamakawiwaole? Have you ever seen Duke Kahanamoku? If they say yes, I say, that is a Hawaiian, not all the immigrants you see running around the islands today. If they don't recognize those names I say, "Have you ever seen a Samoan?" They all say yes. Then I say, that's kind of what a Hawaiian looks like, only Hawaiians are better looking. I add in Hawaiians are Polynesians, not Asians.

    Then they will get it, garanzzzzzz. I don't stop until they get it. No can Ack wid me.

    Bottom line is that your intelligent friends will get it with the first response and idiots who don't deserve the history lecture.

    Either way, productive.

    I don't know why you guys have so much difficulty with this because I encounter the same questions but rarely (It does happen) have difficulty getting people to understand the difference between a Hawaiian and an immigrant.
    Last edited by kamuelakea; March 11th, 2007 at 04:17 PM.

  10. #235
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    Default Re: Hate Crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by joshuatree View Post
    What about an Indian from India living in America and when approached about his/her background, replies, "I'm Indian.".
    I saw a newswoman add to this very response, "Dot, not feather". Too funny.
    “First we fought the preliminary round for the k***s and now we’re gonna fight the main event for the n*****s."
    http://hollywoodbitchslap.com/review...=416&printer=1

  11. #236
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    Default Re: Hate Crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by kamuelakea View Post
    I'm assuming that you are 100% japanese. I can do that based upon the fact that AJA's didn't start out marrying until the last 25 years or so.

    *cyn scrunches her brow, peers over the computer monitor at eric, now 35 years old and born of a sansei father and a okinawan-palauan-japanese-spanish-portuguese-english-korean mother, who is in her fifties*

  12. #237

    Default Re: Hate Crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by kamuelakea View Post
    The simple one, two punch of: I am (FILL IN THE BLANK), I am not Hawaiian, and Hawaiians are like Indians.

    Now if the dummy doesn't get it, then you have 2 choices, walk away or take this as an opportunity to educate people on the plight of Native Hawaiians. Because Hawaiians are not like Indians in that they don't enjoy the same recognition and independence.
    .
    And see, that's the point, Kam. Kanakas are NOT like Native Americans because they have even fewer rights than most tribes do! So to say Hawaiians are like Indians doesn't make sense either. So you're telling me I should say something like : "Real Hawaiians are like Native Americans except they don't have the same rights and privileges that Indian tribes do?" Unfortunately, most people in this country don't recognize shades of gray, Kam. You either "are" or you "aren't". Our educational system is woefully inadequate in teaching kids that it's never only one way or the other, especially when you refer to people of multiple ethnicities.

    And I try mightily to educate people about the history of Hawai'i, but most people don't get it.

    Miulang
    Last edited by Miulang; March 11th, 2007 at 05:52 PM.
    "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

  13. #238
    kamuelakea Guest

    Default Re: Hate Crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by ericncyn View Post
    *cyn scrunches her brow, peers over the computer monitor at eric, now 35 years old and born of a sansei father and a okinawan-palauan-japanese-spanish-portuguese-english-korean mother, who is in her fifties*
    I said most, not all. Tell me you are not a minority in Hawaii? How many over 35 years old part-Japanese from Hawaii born Japanese parents do you know?

    I know some, I know 1000 to 1 the number of part Chinese, part Portuguese, part Hawaiian part English part German. I gotta test my memory to come up with the part-Japanese.

    So you can keep scrunching your eyes but you're going to get those permanent crows feet wrinkles when you're 50.

  14. #239
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    Default Re: Hate Crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by kamuelakea View Post
    I said most, not all.
    you definitely did did not say "most". this is what you said:

    Quote Originally Posted by kamuelakea View Post
    I'm assuming that you are 100% japanese. I can do that based upon the fact that AJA's didn't start out marrying until the last 25 years or so.
    while you didn't say "all," you made an assumption about craig and declared it to be based on "fact." i'm not going to make any statements on craig's ethnic background, but i easily proved your "fact" wrong with the simple act of looking across the couch at my boyfriend.

    as for your more recent comment:

    Quote Originally Posted by kamuelakea View Post
    How many over 35 years old part-Japanese from Hawaii born Japanese parents do you know?
    brah, i know planny. i went to a high school known for its relatively high concentration of students of japanese and chinese descent, and each graduating class numbered about 200. practically all of the kids i went to school with were local born, and many of them were not only themselves mixed-japanese (including japanese-hawaiian), but had parents who were part-japanese. given my own age, many of those former schoolmates are now over thirty-five.

    additionally, eric's dad's family is from the north shore, where there are a good number of hawaii-born native hawaiian-japanese of his parents' age. if that actual fact seems inconceivable to you based on your "fact", then i could make the mistake of assuming you also don't know what "sansei" means but i don't have the habit of making an ass of myself.

    Quote Originally Posted by kamuelakea View Post
    So you can keep scrunching your eyes but you're going to get those permanent crows feet wrinkles when you're 50.
    crow's feet at fifty? i would have flinched if you said "crows feet at thirty," which i, by grace of my filipina genes, do not yet have. warning me against crow's feet at fifty is as impotent as warning me that if i stick my tongue at you, my face is gonna get frozen that way.


  15. #240
    kamuelakea Guest

    Default Re: Hate Crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by ericncyn View Post
    brah, i know planny. i went to a high school known for its relatively high concentration of students of japanese and chinese descent, and each graduating class numbered about 200. practically all of the kids i went to school with were local born, and many of them were not only themselves mixed-japanese (including japanese-hawaiian), but had parents who were part-japanese. given my own age, many of those former schoolmates are now over thirty-five.

    You simply aren't looking around. Again. Look at your graduating class or anywhere else in Hawaii. The number of part-chinese/part-haole/part-hawaiians/part-portuguese each outnumber the amount of part-Japanese 1000 to one.

    You don't know Hawaii and especially Hawaii's recent history. It is a fact that Hawaii's Japanese married out the least (of the large ethnic groups) from when they arrived until recently (maybe the 1980s) and probably on a percentage basis still marry out the least. Come on, this is so obvious, it isn't worth argueing about. If you don't see the differnce, you are blind to reality.

    If I invite all of the Craig Watanabe's in Hawaii to a party, most, maybe even all, would be pure Japanese. That's just da facts honey gurl.

    As for Filipina's, I agree, they age very well and tend to look 10 years younger than they are up to a certain age. But have you ever noticed that most 60 year old filipinos look just as old as any other race 60 year old? What happened? When did they change? That means that they look great right up to about 50 and then, WHAM, father time seems to catch up fast. Just what I've noticed.

  16. #241
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    Default Re: Hate Crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by kamuelakea View Post

    For the uneducumatables, I tell them, you ever see Isreal Kamakawiwaole? Have you ever seen Duke Kahanamoku? If they say yes, I say, that is a Hawaiian, not all the immigrants you see running around the islands today. If they don't recognize those names I say, "Have you ever seen a Samoan?" They all say yes. Then I say, that's kind of what a Hawaiian looks like, only Hawaiians are better looking. I add in Hawaiians are Polynesians, not Asians.

    Come on bro...take a look at the old historical photographs. I see my brothers and sisters....Hawaiians are just a beautiful as the Samoans.

    As for Filipina's, I agree, they age very well and tend to look 10 years younger than they are up to a certain age. But have you ever noticed that most 60 year old filipinos look just as old as any other race 60 year old? What happened? When did they change? That means that they look great right up to about 50 and then, WHAM, father time seems to catch up fast. Just what I've noticed.
    Ive noticed that too. WHAM+some!!!! *i joke i joke*

  17. #242
    kamuelakea Guest

    Default Re: Hate Crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by PoiBoy View Post
    Come on bro...take a look at the old historical photographs. I see my brothers and sisters....Hawaiians are just a beautiful as the Samoans.

    Kalamai brah. But its true. Hawaiians are beautiful people. Check out the portraits of da Kings. Hansome buggahz. Too bad almost extinct. I can only say that cuz this is an anonymous internet board so da sole's can't kick my okole. But I think even da sole's admit, Hawaiians are bettah looking. But eh, no huhu, Samoans are better looking than da Fijians. Something wid da afro.

  18. #243
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    Default Re: Hate Crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by kamuelakea View Post
    Kalamai brah. But its true. Hawaiians are beautiful people. Check out the portraits of da Kings. Hansome buggahz. Too bad almost extinct. I can only say that cuz this is an anonymous internet board so da sole's can't kick my okole. But I think even da sole's admit, Hawaiians are bettah looking. But eh, no huhu, Samoans are better looking than da Fijians. Something wid da afro.
    Why you got to bring up the Fijians? Don't forget Hawaiians have Melanesian koko in them too.
    But yah, ive seen some historical photos of some fine Hawaiian wahine. *not those stupid postcards*
    And don't fall for that stereotypical Samoan look in the u.s. We come in all different shapes,sizes, and shades of brown. That western diet is no good for us island folk.


    Portrait of Queen Kapuolani

    http://sirismm.si.edu/naa/97/oceania/04884900.jpg

    http://sirismm.si.edu/naa/97/oceania/04902700.jpg

    http://sirismm.si.edu/naa/97/oceania/04901600.jpg

    http://sirismm.si.edu/naa/97/oceania/04924100.jpg
    Last edited by PoiBoy; March 11th, 2007 at 11:42 PM.

  19. #244

    Default Re: Hate Crime?

    At the world famous Triple Crown surf meets on the North Shore of Oahu, when the commentator is commenting on the surf action for the crowd, the usually caucasian and sometimes hispanic/brazilian announcers almost always refer to all the Hawaii boys as "Hawaiians" whether or not they have native blood. They'll say like, "Hawaiian Shane Dorian with a nice tube ride!"

    I think the only Sunny Garcia, Fred Patacchia maybe? Kekoa Bacalso? Joel Centeio? Probably have Kanaka blood. I forgot Makua Rothman is most definitely kanaka.

    Is this about being politically-correct again?! Sheesh

    PS--Kamuelakea and PoiBoy, das uns wat U said about Samoans and Filipinos. Cyn, you got a CRAZY bloodline! (Crazy as in COOL!) Aloha.
    Last edited by Kahalu'u Kid; March 12th, 2007 at 12:21 AM.

  20. #245

    Default Re: Hate Crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kahalu'u Kid View Post
    I forgot Makua Rothman is most definitely kanaka.
    :::Musing, smiling, sighing, giggling, rolling eyes:::

    Hapa-Hasidic? Kanaka-conservative? Shalom aleichem and aloha nui loa?

    You just have to laugh, sometimes...

    Happy Pesach to all the Rothmans of Hawaii!

    No, I am not Jewish, but I grew up in a TRUE melting pot. If nothing else, it makes me more prone to giggling at such inanity.
    Last edited by WindwardOahuRN; March 12th, 2007 at 12:39 AM.

  21. #246
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    Default Re: Hate Crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by kamuelakea View Post
    I'm assuming that you are 100% japanese. I can do that based upon the fact that AJA's didn't start out marrying until the last 25 years or so.

    I am assuming that your wife is not 100% Hawaiian since there are only 1000 or so left.

    So if your kids say they are races X, Y, X and Hawaiian, that's not lying or stealing. If your kids say they are Hawaiian (only), then they are being less than accurate and in my opinion, disrespectful to their other ancestor's ethnicities, if there are others.
    So this man who corrected his "Hawaiian Wahine" friend was accurate if both of them really were of mixed ethnicity right?

    100% Hawaiian...there was a time when that meant Kanaka Maoli. Too bad for the Trask sisters, they don't count I guess...you know being only part Hawaiian.

    Now that first statement about AJA's not starting out marrying until the last 25 years or so. Hah?

    Better stop assuming cuz that just don't sound right, either that or pass whatever you're smoking. That statement would mean all AJA's 25-years and older are bastards and that's a lot of em.

    But Kamuelakea, you're right...it is just your opinion so I'll respect that regardless of mine.
    Last edited by craigwatanabe; March 12th, 2007 at 01:51 AM.

  22. #247
    kamuelakea Guest

    Default Re: Hate Crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by PoiBoy View Post
    And don't fall for that stereotypical Samoan look in the u.s. We come in all different shapes,sizes, and shades of brown. That western diet is no good for us island folk.

    Samoan: Exhibit A http://www.rugbyheaven.smh.com.au/ff...-tuiavii,0.jpg


    Fijian: Exhibit B

    http://www.justpacific.com/fiji/fiji...cal-fijian.jpg


    Hawaiian: Exhibit C

    http://www.exit50.com/images/April2005/_dukesurfer.jpg


    As a group, polynesians are all the most beautiful race on Earth. But you gotta admit, Hawaiians da mos handsome.

  23. #248
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    Default Re: Hate Crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by sinjin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by joshuatree View Post
    What about an Indian from India living in America and when approached about his/her background, replies, "I'm Indian."
    I saw a newswoman add to this very response, "Dot, not feather". Too funny.
    When asked about their backgrounds, my nephews often respond, "Hawaiian, poi kine, not Spam kine."

    I'm glad that the mo'olelo of Haloa and the origin of kalo stuck with them.
    Ā Ē Ī Ō Ū ā ē ī ō ū -- Just a little something to "cut and paste."

  24. #249
    kamuelakea Guest

    Default Re: Hate Crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by craigwatanabe View Post
    Now that first statement about AJA's not starting out marrying until the last 25 years or so. Hah?
    First start with more distant history;

    http://www.expo98.msu.edu/people/Phelan.htm

    This is from an essay written in 1921. Probably driven by racism to some extent but the description of Japanese in Hawaii pretty accurate for the time.

    The Japanese began migrating to Hawaii in 1885. During all this time Hawaii has maintained a compulsory school-system modeled upon the American system. If there is any evidence of the Japanese having become Americanized, it is yet to be discovered. They do not associate with white people to any extent, nor do the white people show any disposition to associate with them.

    Some of the factors against the Americanization of the Japanese—if such a thing is possible under any conditions—have been the maintenance, by the Japanese, of their own schools and the support of religious organizations and Japanese vernacular newspapers. These schools, newspapers, and churches have exercised a most potent influence upon the Japanese, and they have always taught, written, and preached loyalty to Japan and reverence to her institutions and culture. All Japanese children attend the Japanese language schools, which are conducted by Japanese teachers sent out from Japan. It is true that the legislature of Hawaii recently undertook partially to control these schools; but it failed.

    And yet, how many marriages have there been between the Japanese and other races? It is safe to say that they can be counted on the fingers of both hands.

  25. #250
    kamuelakea Guest

    Default Re: Hate Crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by craigwatanabe View Post
    Better stop assuming cuz that just don't sound right, either that or pass whatever you're smoking.
    From the Encyclopedia Brittania
    http://www.1911encyclopedia.org/Hawaii

    In early days a limited number of Chinese settled in the islands, intermarried with the natives and by their industry and economy generally prospered. About 750 of them were naturalized under the monarchy. The consent of the Japanese government to the immigration of its subjects to Hawaii was obtained with difficulty in 1884, and in 1886 a labour convention was ratified. Subsequently the increase of the Japanese element in the population was rapid. It rose from 116 in 1884 to 12,360 in 1890 and 24,400 in 1896. Most of these were recruited from the lowest classes in Japan. Unlike the Chinese, they show no inclination to intermarry with the Hawaiians.

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