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Thread: Legalize Poker and Pakalolo

  1. #1

    Default Legalize Poker and Pakalolo

    Anyone else believes in the concept of the freedom of choice? Especially if that choice does not harm the rights of others. I don't like casino gambling like Vegas. Don't these people know that the odds are in the casino's favor? Probability wise no player in the long run is supposed to be a winner in casino games. However, poker is a gambling game that in the long run the winners are determined not just by luck but by skill. The house just takes a rake or percentage for hosting the game to players. Notice how they show people playing hours of poker on T.V.? No one is airing hours of people playing black jack, slots, or craps.

    Then how about pakalolo. Did you know that Hawaii due to its location and geographic conditions provide one of the best spots in the world to grow pakalolo? If the Federal Govt. decided to legalize pakalolo, I think without a doubt Hawaii would be one of if not the biggest benefactor of that shift in policy. So right now we are one of the biggest losers to it being illegal. However, the state from their perspective could send the message here to the citizens that we recognize the legalization of pakalolo as a way to for Hawaii to achieve independent economic benefit. Plus with all the States offering some form of legal pakalolo for medical reasons and also allowing a care taker or co-op to grow and provide pakalolo for these patients in need, why couldn't Hawaii right now play a role? Even if the Feds won't allow it, our State govt. should let its intentions to everyone be known that its preparing and working toward pakalolo's eventual legalization.

    Don't let the Feds intimidate us by cutting federal funding for highways or military spending, etc. We're not fools, they'll still spend money for the military here, we're a strategic location remember? And even if they did cut it, I'm sure it won't be missed by a lot of residents. Maybe due to the increase in revenue to the State from pakalolo, would make up for any lost federal funding? Forget high-tech, if you understand economics, you have to ask yourself if Hawaii has a comparative advantage there? I don't think so. But I definitely think that if we had to compete with the rest of the world, we do have a comparative advantage with pakalolo. The State should also consider that if it legalized pakalolo it would not need to waste its law enforcement resources on such as harmless drug and focus more on the ice epidemic. And if the Feds wanted to take a different view, let them spend on all the money cracking down on pakalolo, that means more money spent in the State by the Feds right?

    So please Hawaii residents think about it. If independently we came to the conclusion that pakalolo is no good for society and it should be illegal, then that's fine. But let's not let the reason be because the Feds decided that conclusion for us.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Legalize Poker and Pakalolo

    r u for real??

    What makes you think that we haven't decided on these issues? How long have you lived in Hawaii?

    pax

  3. #3

    Default Re: Legalize Poker and Pakalolo

    I'm for real. Lived here all my life. If alcohol is legal, I don't see why pakalolo shouldn't be. You don't see anyone saying alcohol has a medicinal purpose except maybe a drink or two a day helps prevent heart attacks.

    You ever inhaled before? Maybe you never experienced it.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Legalize Poker and Pakalolo

    Me? I am into math. And it is no secret that mj doesn't advance one's living. Plus, I grew up homestead; I know a lot more about pakalolo and all of its effects than I ever cared to.

    These two issues have been bandied about politically for decades, and on a local level. That you frame your question in "why the feds and why not us decide" made me wonder where the heck you been.

    pax

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Legalize Poker and Pakalolo

    Quote Originally Posted by Pua'i Mana'o View Post
    [...]These two issues have been bandied about politically for decades, and on a local level.[...]
    And, they've been bandied about in this forum. Possibly GW can do a search.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Legalize Poker and Pakalolo

    I see you're point. Some Braddahs grow out of it and preach to the younger ones. But the fact is people will do vices anyway, legal or not. Pakalolo, Gambling, Prostitution, and Ice still goes on. Can you stop it? Better to regulate it and tax it. Would you not rather see people from your community sharing a joint instead of drinking beers? If legal it would be cheaper than beer, everyone would have some plants in the back yard. And people are less violent stoned than drunk. Maybe even less broken glass on the sidewalks. Of course though, stiff penalties for anyone who promotes to children.

    Plus we sell hemp products in the U.S. But the hemp is imported because no one can legally grow them here. Hawaii could look at hemp as an industry but pakalolo needs to be legalized first.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Legalize Poker and Pakalolo

    Quote Originally Posted by tutusue View Post
    And, they've been bandied about in this forum. Possibly GW can do a search.
    Sorry about that. I did not check that out. But, I probably wanted to debate it anyway. Since its an issue I feel strongly about.

    Now, I can let it drop.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Legalize Poker and Pakalolo

    Quote Originally Posted by GnosticWarrior View Post
    If the Federal Govt. decided to legalize pakalolo, I think without a doubt Hawaii would be one of if not the biggest benefactor of that shift in policy.
    May be but I'm not sure I could bring myself to buy pot from Philip Morris.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Legalize Poker and Pakalolo

    Quote Originally Posted by GnosticWarrior View Post
    Sorry about that. I did not check that out. But, I probably wanted to debate it anyway. Since its an issue I feel strongly about.

    Now, I can let it drop.
    No need to let it drop. It's just that the other thread would've been a good place to carry on the discussion. Who knows...maybe admin will end up merging the 2 threads?

  10. #10

    Default Re: Legalize Poker and Pakalolo

    Quote Originally Posted by GnosticWarrior View Post
    I see you're point. Some Braddahs grow out of it and preach to the younger ones.
    some of us grew up not able escape it, because adults in our lives used it. My pov of view isn't based on personally overcoming usage demons and it would be stupid to assume otherwise than those who feel strongly about keeping such substances illegal include a core demographic of those who grew up around users/abusers.

    Math doesn't lie: communities that accept its usage also top many of the negative social indicator lists. It keeps my people down--my blood, my neighbors-- and I will do everything in my own power to lobby for its continued status. Regardless if you want your buzz or not.

    So let's do the cold math:

    First phase of the equation is: (J+D+S)=X

    It takes x hours to seek out drugs, x being the sum of several factors, including j: physical jonesing; d: finding dumbass friends who deal it or knows a dealer and you have to cultivate those relationships to buy the shit and s:stealing $$ to pay for it, whether you steal it from your folks, or steal it from your own savings earmarked for something more substantive like college or a car or a house down payment or a new xbox360.

    Let's review this first phase:

    -J is mind intensive and goes from hours to years in a snap.
    -D is time intensive and also goes from hours to years in a snap, plus there's always its annoying subset, Drama.
    -S is expensive no matter how you look at it, and the worst price you pay is the ****ed-up habit development of immediate gratification instead of growth through sacrafice. This latter component is CRITICAL in becoming a good man!

    Second phase: PH -(-PT) = H

    PH is Proactive High. This is the time spent getting high from first toke to post-munchies. It always lasts hours. Sometimes, it is the whole waking part of your day. How many days have you spent in PH phase? PT is Productive Time, that which you would be using productively to get ahead, more knowledge, working out, getting a better job? Your PH not only replaces your PT in real time, but also subtracts its value because when it becomes a preferred habit, you would rather do PH than PT, hence the High is the physical time of being stoned minus the potential to do something better with yourself.

    How is this harmonious with either capitalist principles of success or spiritually-successful living? No preaching, no bs, a genuine round worth thinking about.
    Last edited by Pua'i Mana'o; March 17th, 2007 at 09:41 AM. Reason: edited because I suspect I am talking to a young adult and hope to reach him.

    pax

  11. #11

    Default Re: Legalize Poker and Pakalolo

    tutusue,

    Sorry, was not thinking again. I still a newbie to this message board thing.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Legalize Poker and Pakalolo

    nohoboy,

    Even if PM was controlling it, it would still be grown in Hawaii. Just like Dole with the Pineapples. But the reason its not legallized is because no one can patent it and control it. Anyone living here, could easily grow their own smokes.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Legalize Poker and Pakalolo

    Quote Originally Posted by GnosticWarrior View Post
    nohoboy,

    Even if PM was controlling it, it would still be grown in Hawaii. Just like Dole with the Pineapples. But the reason its not legallized is because no one can patent it and control it. Anyone living here, could easily grow their own smokes.
    ...and make their own swipe, and cook their own meth...

    pax

  14. #14

    Default Re: Legalize Poker and Pakalolo

    Pua'i Mana'o,

    I see your personal perspective. For me, from a Japanese family background my dad smoked. He hid it, lied about it. I did not like the lying part. So when I would go to my Hawaiian friends parties and all the Ohana, father, son, uncles, aunties all smoking a joint, I was like yeah! This is how it should be.

    But a parent should not be that friendly and smoke with thier underaged kids just because that's how it was for them, so I can understand why you're against it. And for the record I have uncles that started off sniffing paint, smoking weed, then went on to acid, cocaind, then ice and went to prison. Prison was the best thing for them. Only way they could break that life.

    And yes being stoned is mostly just wasting time. However, it is a gateway drug and prepared my mind for shrooms. Don't know if I would have freaked out the first time I did it. Now that is a psychadelic! But it make you conscious. I am currently having some cool discussions over at the shroomery.org. I don't know if its because of how we all can relate to each other having done it?

  15. #15

    Default Re: Legalize Poker and Pakalolo

    Quote Originally Posted by GnosticWarrior View Post
    Would you not rather see people from your community sharing a joint instead of drinking beers?
    The answer is no. If you're not suffering from some physical ailment that doctors believe pot will help alleviate, why do you need to share a joint?

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Legalize Poker and Pakalolo

    Quote Originally Posted by Pua'i Mana'o View Post
    Me? I am into math. And it is no secret that mj doesn't advance one's living. Plus, I grew up homestead; I know a lot more about pakalolo and all of its effects than I ever cared to.

    These two issues have been bandied about politically for decades, and on a local level. That you frame your question in "why the feds and why not us decide" made me wonder where the heck you been.
    Yes, the state legislature habitually revisits the ideas of legalized gambling and mj posession/growing/use. But there is no final decision. Although there are pitfalls in overindulging in either of these vices, the same falls true for cancer sticks, fire water and prescription pills.

    Yes, it's no secret that mj has been scientifically proven to improve appetite, quell nausea, prevent glaucoma and provide anti-carcinogenic factors. It's also a social truth that nations/states that prohibit/demonize the milder vices fall victim to symptoms of their abuse.

    We can look to few countries for lessons in proper handling. Germany has a legal drinking age of 15, but a minimum age of 18 for driver licensing. This results in better drivers and and a lower incidence of DUIs. Parents give their children non-alchoholic beer from the time they are toddlers and people grow up knowing the proper way to enjoy alchohol in moderation.

    Then there's Amsterdam. Famously known to have cafes where you can enjoy your mj with a cup of joe. What many people don't know is that the city is one of the prime economic centers of Europe and is home to the oldest stock exchange on the planet.

    I personally know someone who parlayed the profits from a successful backyard Honolulu mj growing & selling operation into legitimate real estate investments. She is far from your stereotypical shiftless porch paperweight.

    I'm not saying legalized poker and mj are the magic bullet for Hawaii. But one would do well to keep an open mind to the benefits of such an arrangement.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Legalize Poker and Pakalolo

    Pua`i (as usual) is winning the argument here, by sheer strength of intellect, but while I agree with her on just about every point, I can't make the leap to her conclustion. The original poster's argument is weak, but I agree with the conclusion. So unfair.

    Yes, marijuana is a waste of time and it leads to all kinds of crime. Still, if I've got the time and the legitimate means to pay for the goods, I don't understand why I can't waste either of them as I see fit. I work too dang hard for my $39,000 per year and if, after my 15.5 hours per day of hard work, I'd like to light up, deal a few hands of poker, and watch America's Funniest People, I don't see what business it is of anyone else's.

    Once I let the behaviors lead me to real crime, then yeah, let the state come in and punish me for the crimes I've committed.

    ps: I neither smoke nor gamble.
    Last edited by scrivener; March 17th, 2007 at 02:11 PM. Reason: "i want to be there, in my city by the bay..."
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  18. #18

    Default Re: Legalize Poker and Pakalolo

    Quote Originally Posted by scrivener View Post

    Yes, marijuana is a waste of time and it leads to all kinds of crime.

    Wait...where are the statistics to prove that statement ? That seems like a blanket statment about all drugs, but I think that out of all illegal drugs, it pertains to pot the least.

    Most real stoners are too lethargic to do the kind of crimes that drugs are usually responsible for, like B&E and petty theft.

    Meth, dust, and cocaine cause that kind of behavior more because they are amphetamines, pot is not. Like I always say, you never see a bar room full of stoned people get into a fight. The same cannot be said for alcohol.

    I'm more in agreement with MixedPlateBroker.

    While pot still has it's negative sides, I think lumping it in with the likes of coke,speed,heroin and even alciohol is ignorant. It's a different drug.
    Unless laughing,sleeping, and eating alot of potato chips is considered anti-social behavior, I don't think pot can be considered the same as these other drugs.

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Legalize Poker and Pakalolo

    It's already legal to play poker in Hawaii, as long as it's in the privacy of someone's home and there is no "house" taking a cut.

    In my opinion, marijuana is no worse than alcohol or tobacco, and there are just as many vocal supporters of its legalization as there are opponents.

    If the government would legalize pot, the tax benefits would be realized immediately. MILLIONS of tax dollars would be generated, and you can bet tourism would be affected in a positive manner.

    Those rich folks that come here to stay in Waikiki? Yup, there are smokers among them, too.

    Not a smoker myself, nor do I play much poker. But I'd rather have legal gambling and legal marijuana instead of batu and an ever-worsening homeless situation.

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Legalize Poker and Pakalolo

    "(J+D+S)=X" is actually an argument for legalization of mj. All those letters become moot if one can easily walk to their corner bodega and pick up a sack of Kahaluu sticky for less than the price of a pack of Kool menthols.

    PJ is right. Legalizing/regulating/taxing marijuana growth/sale/use would generate millions of dollars for the state. Money which could be used to help fight the scourges of batu, fatal vehicle-pedestrian interactions and illiteracy.

    Maybe where the feds need to draw the line on drugs is to outlaw all the physically addictive, scientifically-proven harmful substances that have no medicinal value. That would make mj, which has been shown to be only psychologically addictive, perfectly legal. Cigarettes on the other hand (see "nicotine withdrawal"), would no longer be welcome on store shelves.

    I don't think Pua'i has anything to worry about though. Thanks to the deep pockets of lobbyists for companies such as R.J. Reynolds & Phillip Morris, fed-legalized mj is about as viable as a switch from fossil fuels to renewable energy.

  21. #21

    Default Re: Legalize Poker and Pakalolo

    I wonder how many of the coffee and mac nut farms on the BI would become marijuana farms , or include marijuana in their crops , if it were legalized in Hawaii.
    I bet all those subdivisions in Puna would get bought up real fast for farms if it were legalized.

    The Tax dollars could probably end the homeless problem in Hawaii, as well as improve education (2 things I see alot of people posting about on this board), if the Gov't would send the money in that direction.

    The same could be said for California, another prime state for pot growing.

    Here in Cali, it's legal for medicinal purposes, so that's a start.

    Just for the record. I'm no pothead. I use it when I'm really stressed out and can't sleep. Puts me right out. I resort to using it for this reason about 2-5 times a year,so for me, I consider it "medicinal use".

    That being said, I grew up in the 70's smoking pot here and there, but never tried any of the other drugs that it's supposedly a "gateway" to, so I don't really agree on the "gateway drug" argument either.

    People who have addictive personalities get addicted to drugs and alcohol, the latter of which, I believe has been scientifically proven to be genetically predisposed to some people.
    Addictive personalities also overeat, gamble, shop and all kinds of other stuff that is legal (in some states)

    In my opinion pot has been badly stigmatized. I mean, how else could alcohol be legal and pot, ILLegal ? Look at the all the effects alcohol has on people, the dui's, the violence while under the influence. The physical addiction.

    Think about someone who's had too much Jeagermeister or Gin.
    Stoned people just don't get that crazy, they don't vomit when they've had too much. They don't get belligerent.

    You smoke too much pot and you go to sleep. That's it.
    Last edited by tikiyaki; March 18th, 2007 at 06:28 AM.

  22. #22

    Default Re: Legalize Poker and Pakalolo

    Quote Originally Posted by Palolo Joe View Post
    It's already legal to play poker in Hawaii, as long as it's in the privacy of someone's home and there is no "house" taking a cut.

    In my opinion, marijuana is no worse than alcohol or tobacco, and there are just as many vocal supporters of its legalization as there are opponents.

    If the government would legalize pot, the tax benefits would be realized immediately. MILLIONS of tax dollars would be generated, and you can bet tourism would be affected in a positive manner.

    Those rich folks that come here to stay in Waikiki? Yup, there are smokers among them, too.

    Not a smoker myself, nor do I play much poker. But I'd rather have legal gambling and legal marijuana instead of batu and an ever-worsening homeless situation.
    Thanks for the reminder Palolo Joe! Forgot about that social gambling law. I was thinking more inline about having poker rooms like California has. From some of my experiences on the table, trying to make money off the rake or for hosting the game sort of ruins the spirit of the skill factor of poker. I also saw people who would tell me of their addictions to drugs or what not but somehow were still holding on to this one. Wasting their lives on the table and neglecting their families. Scratch that about legalization, keep it social!

    I actually think legalizing MJ is less harmful than poker to society. Don't mean to sound like we are compromising our integrity due to our desperation, but maybe with this homeless situation we have been put in a corner to really explore the truths of Hawaii. Where do we as residents want Hawaii to be and the path we agree to take to get there? Is the current system working for us now? So by choosing a new path, how much worse could it get?

  23. #23

    Default Re: Legalize Poker and Pakalolo

    Quote Originally Posted by tikiyaki View Post
    I wonder how many of the coffee and mac nut farms on the BI would become marijuana farms , or include marijuana in their crops , if it were legalized in Hawaii.
    I bet all those subdivisions in Puna would get bought up real fast for farms if it were legalized.
    You bet, I wonder if anyone is already speculating on it! I think it's just a matter of time. For all those who are against more construction this is the solution. Imagine, seeing a piece of land that had the potential to provide millions or maybe billions in income, with zero concrete, zero electricity?

    I would feel better if Gore was president instead of Bush. But maybe thanks to Bush there is going to be a backlash to their conservative policies as going too far. You already see MJ in alot of movies now. That's another thing, I think we could get support from Hollywood. Whitney Huston's thing at the airport awhile back already brought some attention. MJ in mainstream music is out there more than ever. The dam is going to break soon, and probably people are already positioning themsleves of where the money from MJ will be. Unfortunately for Hawaii though, legalizing MJ is also a threat to some powerful industries, Alcohol and Pharmacuticals. It's a definite power struggle. Any you know what, the Canadians and Californians are doing more to win this struggle. May Hawaii needs to decide if she wants to join in?

    For the record, I'm just talk. If any I remeber maybe giving a small amount to NORML but that's just about it, except maybe for being a consumer from time to time.

  24. #24
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    Default Re: Legalize Poker and Pakalolo

    I think there is a lot to be learned from Marijuana. We have barely touched it in our society. First off we live in a society that is pretty damn anal at best! I mean look, we aloud GW Bush to be elected to two terms in office because conservatives thought he represented their views. Should Marijuana really be treated criminally, or it's use? America needs to take a look on how places like Holland and GB deal with their drug addicts. We could learn from our European brothers a thing or two.
    Medically speaking Pakalolo has a place in our society as far as I'm concerned. It looks like it helps people who are HIV positive, or with Chronic illness. Personally I'm tired of scare tatics used by the DEA on medical doctors who want to percribe medical marijuana to ill patients. Why should they feel threatened if they wanna help terminally ill patients? Again, having a anal retentive Gov. doesn't help our ill here or abroad..

  25. #25

    Default Re: Legalize Poker and Pakalolo


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