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Mr. Abercrombie has the floor

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  • #16
    Re: Mr. Abercrombie has the floor

    Originally posted by alohabear View Post
    On this Kuhio day, remember that even Prince Jonah eventually supported the annexation of the Hawaiian Islands.
    Really?! Wow, you learn something new every day. Was this before or after he served a year in prison for leading a revolution to restore Queen Lili‘uokalani to power in 1895?

    We can’t be so fixated on our desire to preserve the rights of ordinary Americans.

    — U.S. President Bill Clinton
    USA TODAY, page 2A
    11 March 1993

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    • #17
      Re: Mr. Abercrombie has the floor

      Originally posted by TuNnL View Post
      Really?! Wow, you learn something new every day. Was this before or after he served a year in prison for leading a revolution to restore Queen Lili‘uokalani to power in 1895?
      Two years after his release he came to view annexation by the US as preferable to the Republic. He later became an Republican and the Hawaiian rep. to Congress


      This is from the book Hawaii: the Royal Legacy by Allen Seiden
      Listen to KEITH AND THE GIRLsigpic

      Stupid people come in all flavors-buzz1941
      Flickr

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      • #18
        Re: Mr. Abercrombie has the floor

        Originally posted by alohabear View Post
        If you can't change the past, why not support the future? Learn from the mistakes our leaders made in the past and apply it to your wants for the future.
        This comment reminds me of a line from Ziggy Marley's "Tomorrow People" which notes "If you don't know your past, you don't know your future". I think it is important for us to guard the torch of truth and make sure that it is never extinguished.We owe that much to both our Kupuna and our Keiki. Hawaii was ILLEGALLY annexed to the U.S. I think it is important for Hawaiians such as myself to expose the hypocrisy of the U.S. government when the constitutionality of Hawaiian programs are put under the microscope of the U.S judicial system. I'd love for the U.S. Supreme Court to have to rule on the constitutionality of Hawaii's annexation to the U.S.

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        • #19
          Re: Mr. Abercrombie has the floor

          Originally posted by alohabear View Post
          Two years after his release he came to view annexation by the US as preferable to the Republic. He later became an Republican and the Hawaiian rep. to Congress


          This is from the book Hawaii: the Royal Legacy by Allen Seiden
          Kuhio continued to fight for Hawaiian Independence untill he became frustrated with the ineffectiveness of the Independent Home Rule Party. Realizing he could do more for his people as a Republican delegate, that is the role he chose. Had there been other options, he would not have been warm to annexation.

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          • #20
            Re: Mr. Abercrombie has the floor

            Originally posted by Keanu View Post
            This comment reminds me of a line from Ziggy Marley's "Tomorrow People" which notes "If you don't know your past, you don't know your future". I think it is important for us to guard the torch of truth and make sure that it is never extinguished.We owe that much to both our Kupuna and our Keiki. Hawaii was ILLEGALLY annexed to the U.S. I think it is important for Hawaiians such as myself to expose the hypocrisy of the U.S. government when the constitutionality of Hawaiian programs are put under the microscope of the U.S judicial system. I'd love for the U.S. Supreme Court to have to rule on the constitutionality of Hawaii's annexation to the U.S.
            Kinda like my Japanese people that was thrown in camps during WWII. More U.S. government hypocrisy. Germans weren't put in camps, and had land taken away. My grandfather almost went just because he was a leader in the church.
            Listen to KEITH AND THE GIRLsigpic

            Stupid people come in all flavors-buzz1941
            Flickr

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            • #21
              Re: Mr. Abercrombie has the floor

              Never thought I'd quote myself....
              Originally posted by Deep Thought View Post
              Court decisions aside, in a country where, at least on paper, racial discrimination is prohibited is it desirable to allow exceptions based on historic deprivation/discrimination?
              Anyone care to field this? It's really easy to talk about what is wrong in the past. Figuring out what is right for the future is far more interesting though.

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              • #22
                Re: Mr. Abercrombie has the floor

                Originally posted by Keanu View Post
                This comment reminds me of a line from Ziggy Marley's "Tomorrow People" which notes "If you don't know your past, you don't know your future".
                BTW, that rough notion isn't exactly original with Ziggy Marley. Try George Santayana.

                But in this case, try Orwell: "He who controls the past, controls the future; and he who controls the present, controls the past."
                Burl Burlingame
                "Art is never finished, only abandoned." -- Leonardo Da Vinci
                honoluluagonizer.com

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                • #23
                  Re: Mr. Abercrombie has the floor

                  It's been 10 or more posts in a row, and not one person is trying to explain or justify why Hawaiians simply can't compete in the modern world and therefore need specialized entitlement programs, such as those that the good representative is trying to pass.

                  I'm starting to think that Mr. Abercrombie is the ONLY man in Hawaii who thinks Hawaiians are woefully incapable of making it on their own merit. How does this guy continue to get elected? How come Hawaiians do not scream at him for assuming that they simply can't cut it?

                  And then there are the idiots who say that if you give land to Hawaiians, they will just sell it off to the malahini. Well that's not the truth either. Not a single Hawaiian in South Kona is selling their house or land.

                  Maybe it's me, and I'm just not seeing the whole picture. Perhaps Abercrombie is correct, and Hawaiians are truly not capable. In order to be a good liberal, it is essential to identify with inferiority at some level. But how many people would WANT to have the label of inability thrust upon them?

                  It's a crazy world.
                  FutureNewsNetwork.com
                  Energy answers are already here.

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                  • #24
                    Re: Mr. Abercrombie has the floor

                    I don't think that it's because Abercrombie believes Hawaiians are not capable. In my converstaions with him, it's because he's trying to make good a historic wrong and give Hawaiians a level playing field. He believes he's doing the Right Thing.

                    It boils down to legalisms. Are Hawaiians to be a separate racial, cultural and governmental community, like the Many Tribes, or an assimilated ethnic/racial group, like blacks or Irish or Italians or Japanese or whoever?
                    Burl Burlingame
                    "Art is never finished, only abandoned." -- Leonardo Da Vinci
                    honoluluagonizer.com

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                    • #25
                      Re: Mr. Abercrombie has the floor

                      Tim, just a question out of pure curiosity. Do you think Native Americans deserve special rights and recognition or do you think it should be a level playing field with them as well?
                      I'm disgusted and repulsed, and I can't look away.

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                      • #26
                        Re: Mr. Abercrombie has the floor

                        I'm just not much of a racist, Lei. I don't see in color or ethnicity very well. Man's conquest of man is the history of the world. We cannot turn back the clock.

                        Today's reservations are cleaning up on the gambling, cigarettes, gasoline, alcohol trade. Double standards are part of what create animosity and resentments.

                        As time goes by, I think future generations will mingle and intermix to a point where even the Indian casinos will find themselves under attack for special consideration. It is not in the best interest of the future to establish additional race based laws with which to separate the folks. Folks is Folks.
                        FutureNewsNetwork.com
                        Energy answers are already here.

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                        • #27
                          Re: Mr. Abercrombie has the floor

                          Talk about a fragmented, convoluted response. It’s a yes or no question, Tim. Stop being so condescending.

                          We can’t be so fixated on our desire to preserve the rights of ordinary Americans.

                          — U.S. President Bill Clinton
                          USA TODAY, page 2A
                          11 March 1993

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Mr. Abercrombie has the floor

                            No one should have special rights. If you give one group then give them all . How about Japanese interns, relatives of former slaves, Eskimos! Where does it end?
                            Listen to KEITH AND THE GIRLsigpic

                            Stupid people come in all flavors-buzz1941
                            Flickr

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                            • #29
                              Re: Mr. Abercrombie has the floor

                              In deference to TunnL

                              No to special rights
                              Yes to a level playing field

                              I guess it was No/Yes question, which is why it was not a simple question.

                              Apology accepted.
                              FutureNewsNetwork.com
                              Energy answers are already here.

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                              • #30
                                Re: Mr. Abercrombie has the floor

                                Originally posted by Deep Thought View Post
                                Never thought I'd quote myself....

                                Anyone care to field this? It's really easy to talk about what is wrong in the past. Figuring out what is right for the future is far more interesting though.
                                I didn't address your initial question because not only do I object to the inclusion of the word "desirable" but I think the question itself is irrelevent as it relates to Hawaiians only programs.

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