Mr. Abercrombie has the floor

[waioli kai]

thoroughly adulterated by cultureless "America", terrorUSt$ mission

Coincidentally the vast majority of Hawaiians are prohibited from attending Kamehameha Schools by its admissions policy because they don't want to address "special needs" students. Being an elitist to your own kind is the WORSE kind of prejudice. Pauahi envisioned a learning institution that would help ALL her people survive an ever changing Hawai'i. Not just the ones who past a test and are then "hand picked" to attend. AUWE! Pauahi is rolling in her grave! Shame on KSBE for not educating ALL the Kanaka Maoli.

Blame KSBE but don't blame the State or the Feds who squander billion$ and trillion$ and won't be satisfied until the last remaining shred of anything not thoroughly adulterated by cultureless "America" is destroyed.

[Keanu]

Re: Mr. Abercrombie has the floor

Tell that to the military couple that got beaten up out at Waikele.

A vehicle mishap was the trigger of that unfortunate event, not racism.

It's just not that easy to wash that sort of dirt off your hands. Hawaiians were accomplices whether willing or no.

Perhaps if you are applying blame to Ka'ahumanu who broke Kapu or the Monarchs who sold Hawaiian land to enterprsing foreigners after the Mahele but Maka'ainana who lived during the time of the Democratic revolution were not to blame for the revolution itself, as you pointed out. In fact, the first speaker of the Hawaii Territory House of Representatives directly following the Democratic Revolution was himself a Native Hawaiian.

Intent and result often differ greatly. When they do serious discussion is merited.

Your perspective differ greatly from mine.

Again, intent and result often differ greatly. Coincidentally the vast majority African Americans are prohibited from attending Kamehameha Schools by its admissions policy.

And yet no African American has tried to challenge the admission policy of the Kamehameha Schools. Why is that? only whitey likes to have a share of what is not his.

HHCA was enacted before the Civil Rights movement and official recognition that codified and legalized racism was out of sync with the Constitution. How many times do you intend to tell me my views are irrelevant? As a lifelong non-Native resident of Hawaii I am active in the community and have a serious stake in Hawaii's future. As my concerns are related to this very dicey topic, if they can't be addressed since they are "irrelevant" then logically I have to choose which is the lesser evil, support Hawaiian programs and potentially support racism, or don't take any chances and get rid of the programs and exemptions. I AM one of the people you have to convince and dismissing my concerns as "irrelevant" doesn't do that very well. I do you the respect of not dismissing your assertions off-hand, I'd appreciate the same.

The fact that the HHCA was enacted before the Civil Rights movement is a non issue.The Civil Rights movement, which was aimed at abolishing racisim against AFRICAN AMERICANS by WASP's, was and is primarily a black and white issue. Civil Rights laws were authored to protect minorities aginst discrimination by whites. I find it extremely absurd that now WASP's try to link their foolish and selfish battle against Hawaiian entitlement programs and entities such as the Kamehameha Schools to that of African Americans fighting for acceptance in the South during the movement, how utterly ridiculous! I am a lifelong Native son, also active in the community and I too have a serious stake in the future of these islands.Excuse me if I don't put as much weight on your concerns as you. They are definitely misguided to say the least. Fwiw, I don't have to convince you of anything. Programs for my people have long been in place, whether or not you view them as unconstitutional is not really important to me. You seem to lack the ability to see things clearly, therefor, I won't waste my time.

[waioli kai]

Re: Mr. Abercrombie has the floor

.

Keanu: " The Civil Rights movement, which was aimed at abolishing racisim against AFRICAN AMERICANS by WASP's, was and is primarily a black and white issue. Civil Rights laws were authored to protect minorities aginst discrimination by whites. I find it extremely absurd that now WASP's try to link their foolish and selfish battle against Hawaiian entitlement programs and entities such as the Kamehameha Schools to that of African Americans fighting for acceptance in the South during the movement, how utterly ridiculous! "

Deep prejudice and deep contradiction are foundations to WASP American ideologies and arguments. It is indeed utterly ridiculous for WASP Americans to cloak themselves in their self-righteous hypocrisy then preach to the world as if they are here to save the world from all that is unholy.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Mr. Abercrombie has the floor

Question to those participating in this discussion:

Do you actually mean to limit some of your comments to only "White Anglo-Saxon Protestants," as that is what WASP means? Perhaps the acronym doesn't cover all of those you mean to include - but just sounds more cautiously "correct" than what you really want to say.

[Keanu]

Re: Mr. Abercrombie has the floor

Question to those participating in this discussion:

Do you actually mean to limit some of your comments to only "White Anglo-Saxon Protestants," as that is what WASP means? Perhaps the acronym doesn't cover all of those you mean to include - but just sounds more cautiously "correct" than what you really want to say.

I don't want to paint with too broad a brush.

[timkona]

Re: Mr. Abercrombie has the floor

diminution of the Hawaiian people going on decade after decade and felt it was largely the result of their ignorance.

A few months ago I read something that talked of test scores and educational achievement being lower among Hawaiians than other students in public school system. Perhaps some things never change. Ignorance is most often associated with a resistance to change. Kamehameha was the last true visionary Hawaiian. The modern Hawaiian is convinced that the past is much better than the future. That is the essence of the reason for low academic achievement. And that defeatist mentality is quite prevalent in island culture today.

Being born in the islands would seem a natural advantage in business based on connections and who you know or who you grew up with. Should be easy for folks that are born here to make a success of any business they choose.

Lots of folks on this thread will argue for favortism towards this group or that group. But you never hear the same folks explaining what it is, precisely, that makes a group inferior. Instead, they keep pointing the finger at others to blame for their own failures.

You either have to admit that Hawaiians (or other groups) are naturally inferior, or you have to abandon the notion of special treatment based upon some kind of inferiority. You can't have it both ways. The best part is that there are lots of examples of successful Hawaiians right here in my own neighborhood. Homeowners, with good jobs, sober lives, no rap sheet, whose children do well in school, etc, etc.

Now please, somebody explain to me what it is, precisely, that makes Hawaiians unable to compete. The Princess saw it. Keanu clearly sees it. Mr. Abercrombie sees it. I want to know what IT is. And I'm open minded enough to listen, and hear, what the explanation could be.

Anybody? Anybody? Anybody?

[Keanu]

Re: Mr. Abercrombie has the floor

diminution of the Hawaiian people going on decade after decade and felt it was largely the result of their ignorance.

A few months ago I read something that talked of test scores and educational achievement being lower among Hawaiians than other students in public school system. Perhaps some things never change. Ignorance is most often associated with a resistance to change. Kamehameha was the last true visionary Hawaiian. The modern Hawaiian is convinced that the past is much better than the future. That is the essence of the reason for low academic achievement. And that defeatist mentality is quite prevalent in island culture today.

Being born in the islands would seem a natural advantage in business based on connections and who you know or who you grew up with. Should be easy for folks that are born here to make a success of any business they choose.

Lots of folks on this thread will argue for favortism towards this group or that group. But you never hear the same folks explaining what it is, precisely, that makes a group inferior. Instead, they keep pointing the finger at others to blame for their own failures.

You either have to admit that Hawaiians (or other groups) are naturally inferior, or you have to abandon the notion of special treatment based upon some kind of inferiority. You can't have it both ways. The best part is that there are lots of examples of successful Hawaiians right here in my own neighborhood. Homeowners, with good jobs, sober lives, no rap sheet, whose children do well in school, etc, etc.

Now please, somebody explain to me what it is, precisely, that makes Hawaiians unable to compete. The Princess saw it. Keanu clearly sees it. Mr. Abercrombie sees it. I want to know what IT is. And I'm open minded enough to listen, and hear, what the explanation could be.

Anybody? Anybody? Anybody?

Tim, as usual, you are completely missing the point here. Why am I not surprised?

Here's a link for you to try.....
Neil.Abercrombie@mail.house.gov <Neil.Abercrombie@mail.house.gov>

[timkona]

Re: Mr. Abercrombie has the floor

I may be missing the point, as I stated at the end of my last post. But don't let that be a enough of a reason to try to explain IT to me logically.

Rather than belittle me for my ignorance, perhaps you could be nice enough to enlighten me as to what IT is that makes Hawaiians naturally unable to compete. Cuz I just don't see it like that. I may be missing the point, so please, what is the point?

[Keanu]

Re: Mr. Abercrombie has the floor

I may be missing the point, as I stated at the end of my last post. But don't let that be a enough of a reason to try to explain IT to me logically.

Tim, you are incorrigible. I may be willing to give you the benefit of the doubt but I won't hold my breath.

Perhaps it would be beneficial to the discussion if you shared your thoughts on what should be done with Hawaiian Home Lands and the Kamehemeha Schools?

[timkona]

Re: Mr. Abercrombie has the floor

Well Keanu, I'm just not much of a racist. Sorry about that. I don't see in color very well. That is why I am so curious to find out what IT is about Hawaiians that Mr. Abercrombie perceives as making them unable to compete fairly in the modern world. You know the answer (I think) but for some reason you won't tell me.

But for some reason, you are withholding the explanation. Please tell me.

Or just bob and weave, bob and weave, move your feet, sidestep, till I give up and go away.

[Keanu]

Re: Mr. Abercrombie has the floor

Well Keanu, I'm just not much of a racist. Sorry about that. I don't see in color very well. That is why I am so curious to find out what IT is about Hawaiians that Mr. Abercrombie perceives as making them unable to compete fairly in the modern world. You know the answer (I think) but for some reason you won't tell me.

But for some reason, you are withholding the explanation. Please tell me.

Or just bob and weave, bob and weave, move your feet, sidestep, till I give up and go away.

I'll explain after you share your thoughts on what you'd like to see done with the Hawaiian Homes program and the Kamehameha Schools.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Mr. Abercrombie has the floor

Kamehameha was the last true visionary Hawaiian.

How have you been able to measure this against all kanaka since his day?

Now please, somebody explain to me what it is, precisely, that makes Hawaiians unable to compete.

Not until you tell us when you stopped beating your wife. (And you are smart enough to know exactly what I mean by that question.)

[buzz1941]

Re: Mr. Abercrombie has the floor

Kamehameha was the last true visionary Hawaiian. The modern Hawaiian is convinced that the past is much better than the future.

Kamehameha I was quite an amazing fellow. Chances are there would be no Hawaiian culture today if Kamehameha hadn't been smarter than everyone around him, including the haoles. But the above is sort of a blanket statement.

OK, here's a racist statement:

Japanese-Americans are near-sighted and have buck teeth.

Of course, there are Japanese-Americans who are near-sighted and some have buck teeth, and some might even have both, but this statement is obviously a catch-all, and more than that, stupid, because the facts get in the way of the implication.

But this is also a racist statement, and you hear it quite often:

No Japanese-American committed espionage (or sabotage or treason) during World War II.

Beyond the fact that it's simply not true, the statement is patronizing, as it ascribes a blanket inability to do something to an entire ethnic group.

There are incapable Hawaiians. There are absolutely capable Hawaiians as well. Most of them, actually.

[timkona]

Re: Mr. Abercrombie has the floor

I'm not much of a racist, as I stated already. So if you want to use race as a factor in some form of separation, choice, or entitlement decision, then I'm simply not for it.

Kam School
HHL
Affirmative Action
Japanese Chamber of Commerce (or any other race for that matter)
Black Congressional Caucus
(There are a kajillion examples of this in America)

If you turn it around, and insert the word White, or Caucasian, it becomes instantly offensive to many people. I would disagree with that also. Therein lies the fundamental rub with me.

If we separate society based on criteria as whimsical as the color of one's skin, or the pedigree of somebody's mother and father, then how far are we from Hitler's version of achieving eugenic perfection?

I can sympathize with folks who confuse cultural pride and identity with the conflicting notion of egotistical expectations of entitlement. And I hold no false hope of changing anybody's mind on racism, most especially those steeped in the traditions of such vile behavior.

When the sting of racism touches my life, as it sometimes can in Hawaii, I simply brush it off, while inside my heart breaks just a little in sympathy for the hopelessly ignorant.

[Keanu]

Re: Mr. Abercrombie has the floor

I'm not much of a racist, as I stated already. So if you want to use race as a factor in some form of separation, choice, or entitlement decision, then I'm simply not for it.

Kam School
HHL
Affirmative Action
Japanese Chamber of Commerce (or any other race for that matter)
Black Congressional Caucus
(There are a kajillion examples of this in America)

If you turn it around, and insert the word White, or Caucasian, it becomes instantly offensive to many people. I would disagree with that also. Therein lies the fundamental rub with me.

If we separate society based on criteria as whimsical as the color of one's skin, or the pedigree of somebody's mother and father, then how far are we from Hitler's version of achieving eugenic perfection?

I can sympathize with folks who confuse cultural pride and identity with the conflicting notion of egotistical expectations of entitlement. And I hold no false hope of changing anybody's mind on racism, most especially those steeped in the traditions of such vile behavior.

When the sting of racism touches my life, as it sometimes can in Hawaii, I simply brush it off, while inside my heart breaks just a little in sympathy for the hopelessly ignorant.

You haven't answered my question. What would YOU propose be done with all the land currently under the jurisdiction of the Department of Hawaiian Home Lands and what would YOU propose be done with the Kamehameha Schools admission policy?

Are you gonna tell me "or just bob and weave, bob and weave, move your feet, sidestep, till I give up and go away"? I'm looking for answers here, not drivel.