The Trask Sisters

[glossyp]

Re: The Trask Sisters

Craig, when Michael Madsen cut the ear off a police officer in Reservoir Dogs, did you take that to mean Michael Madsen hates cops? And when Christopher Penn later shot that same cop dead, did you think Penn was a cop-killer? Or did you perhaps think Quentin Tarantino, who wrote the script and directed the film, was the real cop-hater?

No, you thought none of those things because you understood that film is not life. You get that there's a separation between the creator of a work and the narrator/actor/persona in that work.

Earlier in the thread you noted that the poem was addressed to a specific woman. That alone makes the comparisons you draw here invalid. Never mind that Madsen and Penn are actors playing parts. Perhaps you could draw a tenuous line to Tarantino as the script writer and speculate that he may be a cop hater, but overall, the comparison makes no sense. I don't see how you can separate Trask from the work and say she did not hate/despise/revile/want to destroy the subject of the poem, when it is quite clear that she did. One thing that can be said about the poem is this: there is no ambiquity and no need to look for the deeper meaning, it is all right there.

If more kids read poems like this, I guarantee the crime rate would go down.

Maybe reading poetry in general, but reading poetry of violent imagery as a crime deterrent? Do you have data to show this to be true?

[timkona]

Re: The Trask Sisters

Scriv's logic post is the greatest post I have ever seen on HT.

Everybody should bookmark that, and refer to it at least once a month.

(scriv gets extra oats in his feed bucket tonight)

[PoiBoy]

Re: The Trask Sisters

If you insist. Let us take the first part of your post. "Reading poetry does not make someone smart." This is incorrect. There are a great many ways to be smart, as Howard Gardner puts forth. I'm an ardent fan of Gardner, but even without theories of multiple intelligences, I would think that my posting record on HT is pretty clear: I hold valuable all kinds of intelligences. Reading poetry certainly DOES make you smart, as does playing sports, performing in plays, participating in church activities, and fixing cars. Anything (well, just about) done thoughtfully and with passion makes you smart. You can disagree if you want, but I'll come back at you with documented research that supports literacy as a critical key to staying out of trouble.

ah an academic governed by rules. Rules you swallowed from someones elses mind then regurgitated. Sad that you look at a "table" for truth.
Did you use it with god?
Howard Gardner is not the authority on anything to me.
Instead of analyzing my post ....take a look at yours.

[greentara]

Re: The Trask Sisters

Scriv's logic post is the greatest post I have ever seen on HT.

Everybody should bookmark that, and refer to it at least once a month.

(scriv gets extra oats in his feed bucket tonight)

His post brought back nightmares for me all of the long hours I spend in the tutorial center trying to get through symbolic logic with a "C" ~ just barely made it. Hardest course in all of my college years. Couldn't wait to sell my book back to the book store to negate all memories. However, I must say I totally respect people that do "get it". The premise fascinates me. r.e.s.p.e.c.t. Scrivener

[Pua'i Mana'o]

Re: The Trask Sisters

I hear a lot of negative about the Trask sisters that I'm starting to wonder, does anyone on HT actually like them? Threads that involve these women (Haunani-Kay especially) turn out not so nice.

My very haole husband is fond of Haunani-Kay Trask even if, odds are, she wouldn't like him very much. Maybe on one of his off days I can get him to register and explain why.

It's a curiousity of mine, does anyone have anything positive to say about Haunani-Kay or Mililani?

their actions and deeds are consistent with their beliefs, and I appreciate their collective integrity, passion, love for our people, and desire for our holomua, so much so that they are willing to stick their necks out as they have over the years.

That said, our families are very close, and even so, I have battled with at least one of them over the years. I look at that experience soberly and distance has allowed me to get over taking it so personally, as I did, because it wasn't about ((me)), it was about all those I believed needed my advocacy and defense.

And today, if I run into her, we can sit, chat, eat lunch together, bring it up (or not), hash, rehash, understand that we will never agree on that chapter of our lives, and still respect each other. We have so much common ground, and so much that we disagree upon, that I look forward to seeing her. By sharing that belief in the greater good for Hawaii and our people, it is in those differing povs that we make our cases stronger.

Hawaiians would be a poorer place without them and though I harbor no desire to draft a press release on their behalf, I gladly defend the heart and contributions of the Trask Sisters.

[craigwatanabe]

Re: The Trask Sisters

Okay so I come back to this thread and am dumbfounded by Scriv's logical analysis of Jane Fonda.

Yes she's a woman but she's among other things a lot of things including logic that was interpreted as negative in the eyes of humanity where logic cannot be construed as the way of life.

If life was built around logic, we wouldn't have wars, poverty, and all things contributed to human emotion.

In their poetic ways of communicating their subjective thoughts on other races, they fail to see that it is they that have become the racist in their contempt of humanity in general.

Logic cannot be used as a tool of measure when applied to such subjective words as found in poetry.

Logic cannot be used as a tool of measure when applied to human emotion. Emotion covers such a broad area it becomes shades of grey. Logic fails to see these subtle variations of reality. It only sees peaks and dwells and cannot comprehend the vastness of space between.

If that were the case then the bible would be three words: Believe or die and not an epic in human discipline for belief structure.

When the Trasks stood across the State Capitol with a banner that associated Haoles with a negative word, that act crossed the lines of human decency whether it was poetic or not, she targetted Haoles in a negative way...Hate Crime by the laws we are governed by.

There is no place for verbage like that and I say again, her poetry reciting vulgar acts against humanity is in no way thoughtful or can be construed as making one smarter. It makes one hateful. Plug that into your equation.

[scrivener]

Re: The Trask Sisters

I agree with most of what you say about logic. That logic stuff was posted in order to demonstrate that saying "People who read become smart" is NOT saying "People who don't read do not become smart."

[anapuni808]

Re: The Trask Sisters

When the Trasks stood across the State Capitol with a banner that associated Haoles with a negative word, that act crossed the lines of human decency whether it was poetic or not, she targetted Haoles in a negative way...Hate Crime by the laws we are governed by.

Sorry to take your post & crop it to just this one paragraph but I wanted to make a commment. I was there, in front of Washington Place, holding a sign with everyone else the day of the infamous incident. First of all, it was not a banner - it was a sign, held by Haunani-Kay. (I know - nit picking). While there, my white skin was not made to feel unwelcome because I was there in solidarity with the protest. The Trask sisters are controversial yes - but they are very passionate about the theft of their nation. We may not agree with their methods but I admire their bravery and strength in taking the stands they do. and for being loud, proud & in your face! I cannot in any way claim acquaintance with the sisters but anyone who does know them, knows they don't hate all people with white skin. "Haole" is not just defined as a skin color, its also how a person behaves and conducts themselves in their community. I can understand that, and have no problems with it.

[LikaNui]

Re: The Trask Sisters

I was there, in front of Washington Place, holding a sign with everyone else the day of the infamous incident.

I'm curious, and this goes to anyone -- were there children there? And if so, what lessons did they learn?

[timkona]

Re: The Trask Sisters

Gosh darn it LikaNui...Stop being so poignant.

From Auntie Haunani-Kay, the keiki are learning cherished traits of humanity, like racism, hatred, loathing, bitterness, entitlement, and a whole variety of other useful human behaviors. She should be proud of the example she sets for the keiki. Think of all the good she doing for the people.

[craigwatanabe]

Re: The Trask Sisters

To answer the question, yes there were children present. LOTS of them!

I do understand the intensity of what they were attempting to showcase, that the native Hawaiian has had enough and has reached critical mass to the point of vulgar statements.

BUT when she got to that point and lashed out with those words, she lowered her standards to those in which she was contesting...the White Man. She became her worst enemy by becoming one of them. Instead of maintaining her poise, she guttered out and became what she was fighting against.

The passion I do understand as I would also become so agitated that nothing was getting done and no forward movement in my cause has occured, yes I too would become as passionate as her. BUT there are ways of communicating effectively and swearing ethnic slurs is not a good way.

In my book she basically lost it...had enough of it...popped a vein...you name but she lost her cool and lost my respect at the same time. Hopefully she has learned from that and has moved on to better ways of fighting a battle.

I really hope so because she is a driving force behind mending an open wound that has infected Kanaka Maoli. You don't heal with hatred.

[Lei K]

Re: The Trask Sisters

"Haole" is not just defined as a skin color, its also how a person behaves and conducts themselves in their community. I can understand that, and have no problems with it.

This is a lot like how my husband thinks. The way he uses haole is for how someone conducts themselves.

A lot of times he says to his step mother, "Geez you act sooo haole," not that she really understands what that means. He says that because she acts VERY high makamaka. "Haole" by my family, towards my husband, is used as an endearing term, "Haoleboy." I guess it's one of those words that can mean so many things mattering on how it's said. I grew up hearing it used in the Hawai`i school system as in "F*ckin Haole" (Northern European/American). I tend to use it with a much more broad "foreigner" definition. ANYTHING foreign to Hawai`i.

My white as white can be, nothing in him that's could be considered exotic or dark, husband takes absolutely no offense to haole, no matter how it's used. Matter of fact sometimes I think it's his favorite word. As I said he loves Haunani-Kay Trask. On a personal level, I love her strength and passion. I think she inspires many to do something finally.