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  • #76
    Re: Virginia Tech shootings!

    Originally posted by Miulang View Post
    What happened in VA with Cho might be a result of the Commonwealth of VA gun laws themselves. Not all states play so loosey-goosey with the requirements for buying or carrying firearms. And their gun laws might have some historical precedence in the fact that the patricians in VA still go fox hunting.

    Miulang
    Sorry Miulang, that list is the anti gunners' wish list. They are not judging VA gun laws against existing gun laws. They are judging them against what they would like to be law. They do this for all the states and give them a passing or failing grade. Brady is the last place you should consider for getting facts or a true list of gun laws. They have an agenda and have been known to skew the facts in their favor. You might blame the NRA for the same, but they get their info from the US Justice Dept. and the FBI. Try checking VA state gun laws website. A nice, neutral alternative. At least, there, you'll see what IS currently law. Not what an organization with an agenda wishes were laws. Just google "Virginia state gun laws".

    It wouldn't have mattered which state Cho was in. He'd have been able to obtain a firearm in any state that allowed a resident alien to own guns. No criminal record or "documented" mental illness. Even we have such background checks in HI plus a 14 day waiting period, but he'd have to be a US citizen here. He purchased his first gun 5 weeks prior. If he were in HI and a US citizen, do the math. The gun laws are not at fault. If he couldn't get a gun, he would have probably resorted to bomb making especially if his plan was to take as many as possible with him.
    Even the gun dealer said, hey, clean cut college kid, clean NCIS check. It was a clean sale. No existing gun laws were broken.

    Remember Byron Uyesugi. He bought his guns years prior. Never had a permit to acquire denied and always passed his background checks. Never broke a law or gotten arrested for anything. Then one day...snap!

    As for conceal carry, well the question is being asked, since the matter of gun control has been let out of the bag. VA Tech has a standing rule of not allowing firearms on campus. Cho didn't give a darn. Maybe, just maybe.... it's too bad a student/s or a teacher/s who had a conceal carry permits didn't have their guns because they followed the rules and left them locked up in their cars. Cho would have been confronted by several armed students and may have had his rampage cut short. What if....

    You may think conceal carry is stupid, but what you don't know is how many times a concealed weapon is used everyday in this country to save a life or prevent a crime, not to mention guns used in home defense.. These stories are never published in the newspapers or aired on the 6 o'clock report as this goes against the intent of most media outlets.

    There are no answers to this problem, except maybe going the way of North Korea. Confiscate everyone's guns and property, starve them and instill in them the fear of death if rules are broken or if they don't kowtow to the "supreme" ruler. No more 1st amendment, no more second amendment, no more Constitution or Bill of Rights, no more freedom. TaDAAAAA!

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    • #77
      Re: Virginia Tech shootings!

      Originally posted by Da Rolling Eye View Post
      Maybe, just maybe.... it's too bad a student/s or a teacher/s who had a conceal carry permits didn't have their guns because they followed the rules and left them locked up in their cars. Cho would have been confronted by several armed students and may have had his rampage cut short. What if....

      There are no answers to this problem, except maybe going the way of North Korea. Confiscate everyone's guns and property, starve them and instill in them the fear of death if rules are broken or if they don't kowtow to the "supreme" ruler. No more 1st amendment, no more second amendment, no more Constitution or Bill of Rights, no more freedom. TaDAAAAA!
      Graf #1) We can spin "what if..." in many directions, of course. What if several armed students DID get involved? Who can say they would have succeeded in taking him out cleanly and early on - as opposed to starting a cross-fire battle that leads to said armed students creating collateral damage and friendly-fire deaths?

      Graf #2) You're shifting from one extreme to the other, while ignoring the wide range in-between. There are first-world countries where gun ownership just isn't that big a way of life, and the laws are generally tight. They still have incidents of people obtaining guns, snapping and committing mass murders - but far less often than in the U.S. Then there are other nations that have very strong restrictions on gun ownership, yet guns can be obtained and the crime rate is high. Can anyone cite a country where gun laws are very lax, yet the crime rate involving weapons is very low?

      As many here have noted (including yourself, DRE), there's no simple solution. We will never be able to fully prevent such tragedies, never, no matter what. We can scream all we want about how it's the fault of the NRA, or the too-loose/too-restrictive gun laws, or the mental-health system, or the administration, or immigration, or poor parenting, or signals from the mothership. But it won't stop this from happening again.

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      • #78
        Re: Virginia Tech shootings!

        OK, here's an objective link to the gun laws in all the states. Compare Virginia to NY or anywhere else. The laws in the different states vary, depending on the political climate of that particular state when the ordinances were passed.

        Miulang

        P.S. Here's an interesting article in Time Magazine
        Last edited by Miulang; April 18, 2007, 01:58 PM.
        "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

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        • #79
          Re: Virginia Tech shootings!

          Originally posted by Leo Lakio View Post
          Graf #1) We can spin "what if..." in many directions, of course. What if several armed students DID get involved? Who can say they would have succeeded in taking him out cleanly and early on - as opposed to starting a cross-fire battle that leads to said armed students creating collateral damage and friendly-fire deaths?

          Graf #2) You're shifting from one extreme to the other, while ignoring the wide range in-between. There are first-world countries where gun ownership just isn't that big a way of life, and the laws are generally tight. They still have incidents of people obtaining guns, snapping and committing mass murders - but far less often than in the U.S. Then there are other nations that have very strong restrictions on gun ownership, yet guns can be obtained and the crime rate is high. Can anyone cite a country where gun laws are very lax, yet the crime rate involving weapons is very low?

          As many here have noted (including yourself, DRE), there's no simple solution. We will never be able to fully prevent such tragedies, never, no matter what. We can scream all we want about how it's the fault of the NRA, or the too-loose/too-restrictive gun laws, or the mental-health system, or the administration, or immigration, or poor parenting, or signals from the mothership. But it won't stop this from happening again.
          Graf#1 Yes. Lots of what if's, but the armed students question did come up on one of the major news networks and I basically went with that. There's simply too many factors involved. No crystal ball here.

          Btw, don't know if it would make a difference in such a situation, but to acquire a conceal carry permit, one must take and pass a special class. Some states require the permit carrier to retake this class or a test every year. The training usually involves the when and how to use deadly force and "proper" firearms handling. Similar to a police firearms training course.

          Graf#2 Just being facetious. In the matter of gun control, for many, there is no middle ground. All or nothing.

          The only country I can think of is maybe Switzerland where every home is required to have a firearm. Not as a crime deterrant, but as a required militia weapon.

          Gun control in Australia is strict, but crimes involving the use of firearms has increased. The people who passed the anti gun legislation are wondering what went wrong. It's a report we hear often from our fellow gun owners from Down Undah. There has been little reported on this fiasco.

          Comment


          • #80
            Re: Virginia Tech shootings!

            Originally posted by Miulang View Post
            OK, here's an objective link to the gun laws in all the states. Compare Virginia to NY or anywhere else. The laws in the different states vary, depending on the political climate of that particular state when the ordinances were passed.

            Miulang

            P.S. Here's an interesting article in Time Magazine
            That website is out of date. Try www.gunlaws.com.

            There's always a record of a legal gun sale. There are forms that are required to be filled by the purchaser, by the BATFE, and must be recorded by the FFL holder or seller. The records are regularly checked by BATFE agents who do "surprise" visits to the FFL holders' homes or places of business. Any descrepancy usually warrants a search of any property. This is usually a fairly anxious time for the dealer as even a typo can get them in trouble.

            Also, VA uses the NICS. Website says, no. Btw, despite what the FBI says, they do hang on to the buyers information for awhile, where as the NICS law says they're not supposed to.

            Time magazine has never been objective about the gun control issue. They be left.

            Comment


            • #81
              Re: Virginia Tech shootings!

              Originally posted by Da Rolling Eye View Post
              Time magazine has never been objective about the gun control issue. They be left.
              But did you READ that article? It's actually talking about the pro-gun lobby! (And for once, there's really no leftwing "editorializing" )

              Miulang
              "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

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              • #82
                Re: Virginia Tech shootings!

                Did anyone read the plays Cho wrote? And hes an English major???
                Aquaponics in Paradise !

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                • #83
                  Re: Virginia Tech shootings!

                  Respectfully, I am still at a loss of how people, not just here, and the media are wanting to turn this into a gun control issue. Anyone can obtain a gun, legally or not, and what they do with it from there is unfortunately, and ultimately up to that person. Gun laws are in place for an obvious reason, but the paperwork can be falsified. I think it is not a matter of gun control, but recognizing the signs of mental instability, a acting on it promptly. I know that this guy was "treated" in the past, and apparently was not a slouch by any means, mentally. He was smart enough to get into VT, and fool the councilors he had "voluntarily" under gone in 05.

                  Now that the news has talked about the manifesto and tapes he sent to NBC, it is even more obvious that not only was he a loose cannon, but was very clear and concise in his actions. Regardless of gun control, he was going to do it one way or the other.

                  Guns do not kill people, people kill people. A weapon is a tool, and like anything else can be used maliciously, or used properly. There will always be access to weapons, regardless of ANY amount of gun control.

                  I respect everyones feelings on this, like I said, I am just not seeing how it is a gun control issue...maybe I am just missing something...
                  flickr

                  An email from God:
                  To: People of Earth
                  From: God
                  Date: 9/04/2007
                  Subject: stop

                  knock it off, all of you

                  seriously, what the hell


                  --
                  God

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Re: Virginia Tech shootings!

                    Originally posted by Da Rolling Eye View Post
                    That website is out of date. Try www.gunlaws.com.
                    Are you suggesting Alan Korwin is un-biased?

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Re: Virginia Tech shootings!

                      Originally posted by Miulang View Post
                      But did you READ that article? It's actually talking about the pro-gun lobby! (And for once, there's really no leftwing "editorializing" )

                      Miulang
                      Ya got me. I saw "Time" and read the first few sentences and gave up figuring I'd be reading all the same old rhetoric and I feeling lazy.

                      I'm pau. This is political and I really broke my own promise, again. No talk politics or religion. I going back to da food place before this headache gets worse.

                      Again, thoughts and prayers to the families of the victims. So sad.

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Re: Virginia Tech shootings!

                        I have seen stills that were included in that package Cho sent as well as of part of the videotape (apparently, NBC has shown the whole thing on their channel). They remind me of some of the gangsta-rap artists---he poses the way they do in some of their music videos...so one has to wonder, is that where he picked up some of his mannerisms and attitudes?

                        You can see HATE in his eyes, which is very very disturbing.

                        Miulang
                        Last edited by Miulang; April 18, 2007, 03:41 PM.
                        "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Re: Virginia Tech shootings!

                          Originally posted by Hellbent View Post
                          Did anyone read the plays Cho wrote? And hes an English major???
                          Dude had issues. He scared his professors! Now sure, I am sure when Stephen King was in school, he might have wrote some macabre stuff, but Cho was waaaaaay out in left field.
                          flickr

                          An email from God:
                          To: People of Earth
                          From: God
                          Date: 9/04/2007
                          Subject: stop

                          knock it off, all of you

                          seriously, what the hell


                          --
                          God

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Re: Virginia Tech shootings!

                            Originally posted by Leo Lakio View Post
                            Are you suggesting Alan Korwin is un-biased?
                            No, but at least the list of laws is up to date and true to form, from what I've looked up anyways.

                            Miulang, I went back to read that article. Das a good'un.

                            Okay, bye already.

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Another high school killing

                              <sigh> Copycat killings are rearing their ugly head already...earlier today, a high school student in NC held 2 of his classmates at gunpoint and then proceeded to commit suicide in the school parking lot.

                              How are we failing our nation's youth? Why are they so angry or feeling desperate enough to commit violent acts on others and themselves?

                              Miulang
                              "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Re: Virginia Tech shootings!

                                And other incidents reported today across the country. Sick jokes, for sure, but why????

                                Miulang

                                P.S. The Kansas-based Baptist church known for staging protests at the funerals of our soldiers who were killed in the Middle East have announced that they will be showing up at the funerals of the Virginia Tech victims. Talk about sick...enough politicizing of this tragedy. Can't the survivors grieve in peace?
                                "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

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