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  • Sovereignty - help me understand

    30+ years ago when I was little, everyone just seem to live life in Hawaii, like it always been. Maybe 10-15 years ago, the soveriegnty issue seems to be the front page.

    I know there are different groups with different opinions.

    Help me understand, is soveriegnty about:

    - Is it about power and control?
    - Having own nation so one can have their own rules and laws?
    - Is it about the money, like the airport tax?
    - Is it to redistribute income?
    - What is the place of non-Hawaiian blood residence?
    - What about part-Hawaiians?
    - Is Hawaii suppose to be "two countries?"

    TIA

  • #2
    Re: Soveriegnty - help me understand

    Great Thread ! So many questions I have about the SovMov.

    Who are the principal players/factions in the game?
    Is there a giant book full of detailed plans that would guide them if they succeed?
    What about laws, police, beauracratic infrastructure, etc etc??

    Can't wait for responses here.
    FutureNewsNetwork.com
    Energy answers are already here.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Soveriegnty - help me understand

      If you truly want to learn, then you will have to do the work yourself. Start by reading through the links here, and here and here and here and go on from there.

      Miulang
      "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

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      • #4
        Re: Soveriegnty - help me understand

        Shucks.....I found nothing that looked remotely like a plan.

        When you have a goal, and if you achieve that goal, but have nothing planned for what happens AFTER you achieve the goal, then you are just like President Bush.
        FutureNewsNetwork.com
        Energy answers are already here.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Soveriegnty - help me understand

          The best thread on HT that discusses the issue is the "Statehood holiday" thread. The first 10 pages is a lot of emotional stuff. But from 11 on, it is worth the read (or at least saves me the trouble of typing that stuff out alllll over again).

          pax

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          • #6
            Re: Soveriegnty - help me understand

            Originally posted by timkona View Post
            Shucks.....I found nothing that looked remotely like a plan.

            When you have a goal, and if you achieve that goal, but have nothing planned for what happens AFTER you achieve the goal, then you are just like President Bush.
            That's not quite true, Tim. You didn't look hard and long enough, Tim.

            The government of the Kingdom of Hawai'i

            Miulang
            "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Soveriegnty - help me understand

              seriously Miulang, why are you doing their homework for them?

              pax

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Soveriegnty - help me understand

                Originally posted by Pua'i Mana'o View Post
                seriously Miulang, why are you doing their homework for them?
                Pua'i, I gave them a nudge...it's up to them to do the learning.

                Miulang
                "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Soveriegnty - help me understand

                  Originally posted by timkona View Post
                  Shucks.....I found nothing that looked remotely like a plan.

                  When you have a goal, and if you achieve that goal, but have nothing planned for what happens AFTER you achieve the goal, then you are just like President Bush.
                  we talk about referendums on the "nationalism vs ethnicity" thread. The plan is to vote on the issues and determine the agenda (ergo, your "plan").

                  pax

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Soveriegnty - help me understand

                    I started to read the links. Maybe there needs to be a FAQ section.

                    In the Declaration of Independence

                    "We, the indigenous people of Hawai'i, empathically reject incorporation into the United States of America, and hereby announce secession. We do this with clarity of mind, good conscience, and a determined will. we are ready to sacrifice our worldly assets and our very lives to see the kingdom of Hawai'i restored."

                    So what about my fee simple property on Honolulu? Do I need to sell and move? So, once it is set up, people will vote on whether or not I get to keep my house?

                    "I am Edmund Kelii Silva, Jr., Ali'i Nui (Sovereign) of the kingdom of Hawaii. On my mother's side I am the direct lineal descendent of King Kamehameha the Great, and heir to the throne. And, on my father's side I am the direct lineal heir to King Kamehameha Nui of the kingdom of Maui before King Kamehameha the Great unified the lands. On November 22, 2002, the prime minister of the Hawaiian kingdom, along with the Council of Regency, Na Kupuna Council O' Hawai'i Nei, the Na Kupuna Council Hawai'i Moku of the legislative body of government, and the Royal Kupunas of the House of Nobles, proclaimed that I am the lawful successor to Ali'i Nuis (High Chiefs) of ancient Hawai'i."

                    Why should Kamehameha's decendents be the heir to Hawaii? Lunalilo was appointed. And Kalalaua was elected. So why would someone with certain lineal connection be Prime Minister compare to someone else who is also Hawaiian, with other connections, or "no connections" at all?
                    Last edited by cabanalane; May 7, 2007, 11:09 AM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Soveriegnty - help me understand

                      If you own fee simple property, I seriously doubt it would ever be taken away from you or your heirs, except as in recent cases of eminent domain on CONUS. But if your land was condemned or confiscated, you deserve fair market value for giving up your land.


                      Miulang
                      "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Soveriegnty - help me understand

                        Originally posted by GoLowDrew View Post
                        I started to read the links. Maybe there needs to be a FAQ section.

                        In the Declaration of Independence

                        "We, the indigenous people of Hawai'i, empathically reject incorporation into the United States of America, and hereby announce secession. We do this with clarity of mind, good conscience, and a determined will. we are ready to sacrifice our worldly assets and our very lives to see the kingdom of Hawai'i restored."

                        So what about my fee simple property on Honolulu? Do I need to sell and move? So, once it is set up, people will vote on whether or not I get to keep my house?

                        "I am Edmund Kelii Silva, Jr., Ali'i Nui (Sovereign) of the kingdom of Hawaii. On my mother's side I am the direct lineal descendent of King Kamehameha the Great, and heir to the throne. And, on my father's side I am the direct lineal heir to King Kamehameha Nui of the kingdom of Maui before King Kamehameha the Great unified the lands. On November 22, 2002, the prime minister of the Hawaiian kingdom, along with the Council of Regency, Na Kupuna Council O' Hawai'i Nei, the Na Kupuna Council Hawai'i Moku of the legislative body of government, and the Royal Kupunas of the House of Nobles, proclaimed that I am the lawful successor to Ali'i Nuis (High Chiefs) of ancient Hawai'i."

                        Why should Kamehameha's decendents be the heir to Hawaii? Lunalilo was appointed. And Kalalaua was elected. So why would someone with certain lineal connection be Prime Minister compare to someone else who is also Hawaiian, with other connections, or "no connections" at all?

                        Dude, go look. And not on that website, for goodness' sake.

                        pax

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Soveriegnty - help me understand

                          Originally posted by Pua'i Mana'o View Post
                          Dude, go look. And not on that website, for goodness' sake.
                          I agree.

                          Although it's a little dated, Tony Castanha's UH Political Science M.A. thesis entitled "The Hawaiian Sovereignty Movement: Roles of and Impacts on Non-Hawaiians" might prove more educational.
                          Ā Ē Ī Ō Ū ā ē ī ō ū -- Just a little something to "cut and paste."

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Sovereignty - help me understand

                            Originally posted by GoLowDrew View Post
                            So what about my fee simple property on Honolulu? Do I need to sell and move? So, once it is set up, people will vote on whether or not I get to keep my house?
                            Scary to not know, huh? A lot of homeowners worry about this. I think one of the reasons so many people are against the sovereign movement is because they have no clue what they could lose.

                            Was the seller of your home the legal owner?
                            A proud sponsor of
                            http://www.haleamano.com

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                            • #15
                              Re: Soveriegnty - help me understand

                              we vote by referendum.

                              All the way.

                              -Want to keep dual citizenship? (US/Hawaiian). Let's vote on that.
                              -Want to do away with "native" issues? Let's put "a Hawaiian citizen is a Hawaiian" and vote on that.

                              We fill up the ballots and take it democratically. Hawaii was becoming a socialist monarchy anyway, and with our leaders all elected in the last four governments it is a natural fit.**

                              **yes, nobody voted for Sanford Dole and the Republic of Hawai'i, but from Lunalilo until Lingle, outside of whats-his-face, we've been doing the voting thang.

                              pax

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