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  • Translation Help

    How would I say "Children of Lili'uokalani" in Hawai'ian? Would it just be "Lili'uokalani Keiki"? Would that work for a group of kids that were in their teens? Or is Keiki strictly for very young children? Also, I don't know how to construct the possessive form for a word. Any help would be great. Mahalo!
    Last edited by verdant75; June 13, 2007, 07:56 AM.

  • #2
    Re: Translation Help

    "Nā Keiki O Liliʻuokalani" would be the most typical translation, I think. Or you might use "mamo" or "kamaliʻi" instead of "keiki", depending on your intended connotation.

    Who exactly are these people you're planning to label in this way? When you say "children of", what's the nature of the relationship? Clearly you don't mean that they are actual blood descendants of Liliʻuokalani, because she didn't have any.

    And by the way, the word "Hawaiian" is a word of the English language, rather than a word of ʻōlelo Hawaiʻi, so it is not written with an ʻokina.

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    • #3
      Re: Translation Help

      Thanks Glen!

      I meant the phrase as an homage to Lili'uokalani, with "children" used in the spiritual sense. It's a possible name for a high school club on the mainland with kids from Hawai'i. Regardless of the different views of Hawaiian annexation, I wanted a name that recognized the last Hawaiian monarch. And thanks for also clearing up the bit with the okina .
      Last edited by verdant75; June 13, 2007, 12:42 PM.

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      • #4
        Re: Translation Help

        Originally posted by Glen Miyashiro View Post
        "Nā Keiki O Liliʻuokalani" would be the most typical translation, I think. Or you might use "mamo" or "kamaliʻi" instead of "keiki", depending on your intended connotation.

        Who exactly are these people you're planning to label in this way? When you say "children of", what's the nature of the relationship? Clearly you don't mean that they are actual blood descendants of Liliʻuokalani, because she didn't have any.

        And by the way, the word "Hawaiian" is a word of the English language, rather than a word of ʻōlelo Hawaiʻi, so it is not written with an ʻokina.
        This is an interesting discussion. However, with the exception of a possessor being a place, I have seldom seen keiki used with an O-class possessive. A search through the Hawaiian language newspaper database further supports this observation http://nupepa.org/gsdl2.5/cgi-bin/nu...=%22keiki+o%22. Rather, A-class possessives are usually used with keiki.

        It would be more common to say Nā Keiki a Liliʻuokalani, or Kā Lili'uokalani mau keiki .
        Last edited by 'i'iwipolena; June 13, 2007, 06:32 PM.
        I ka wā i laulaha ai ka ‘apa‘apa, he hana ho‘āuhuli ka ‘ōlelo ‘ana me ka ‘oia‘i‘o.

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        • #5
          Re: Translation Help

          I recall this case, where the "o" is used.

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          • #6
            Re: Translation Help

            Originally posted by 'i'iwipolena View Post
            This is an interesting discussion. However, with the exception of a possessor being a place, I have seldom seen keiki used with an O-class possessive. A search through the Hawaiian language newspaper database further supports this observation http://nupepa.org/gsdl2.5/cgi-bin/nu...=%22keiki+o%22. Rather, A-class possessives are usually used with keiki.

            It would be more common to say Nā Keiki a Liliʻuokalani, or Kā Lili'uokalani mau keiki .
            I defer to those who actually speak the language. I'm just a Kepanī boy who wants to respect those who were here before me.

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            • #7
              Re: Translation Help

              Originally posted by Leo Lakio View Post
              I recall this case, where the "o" is used.
              Oh, yes. This is interesting. The name of the albulm is Nā Keiki o Kamehameha. Perhaps the O-class possessive is used here because the possessor is an inanimate organization. However, there is also a scholarship named Nā Ho'okama a Pauahi.
              Last edited by 'i'iwipolena; June 13, 2007, 09:06 PM.
              I ka wā i laulaha ai ka ‘apa‘apa, he hana ho‘āuhuli ka ‘ōlelo ‘ana me ka ‘oia‘i‘o.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Translation Help

                Originally posted by 'i'iwipolena View Post
                Oh, yes. This is interesting. The name of the albulm is Nā Keiki o Kamehameha. Perhaps the O-class possessive is used here because the possessor is an inanimate organization. However, there is also a scholarship named Nā Ho'okama a Pauahi.
                That's a very good point; perhaps the posessive varies for that reason - my knowledge of the language isn't deep enough to be certain. It's possible either usage cited is acceptable. Prior to this discussion, I'd have leaned toward "o" (based on its organizational usage not only for this album, but in hula halau names as well), but I wouldn't stake anything on it.

                Now I know why verdant75 isn't sure what to say. Perhaps, with a limited knowledge of ʻōlelo Hawaiʻi, it would be wiser (as a mainland-based group) to stick with an English name at present, until an expert can give them an assuredly accurate translation. Are there any members in said club who are fluent?

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                • #9
                  Re: Translation Help

                  Thanks for the input everyone . If I went with "Mamo" instead of "Keiki," would that have a more certain sentence construction?

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                  • #10
                    Re: Translation Help

                    I suppose I should elaborate on why I'm looking for such a specific name. I'm the creator of the independent comic book, "Pride High," which was first released in September of 2006. The story is set at the fictional "Poseidon Preparatory Academy," a school for super-powered youth on the West Coast.



                    Part of the plot centers on the school’s Inter-Squad Championship (“I.S.C.”). The year-long event pits squads of five against each other through grades, community service, and direct combat exercises. The winning team is granted a summer internship with an established organization of adult superheroes, similar to “The Justice League” and “The Avengers.” Since acceptance into a renowned supergroup is the goal for a majority of the students, the guaranteed internship through the I.S.C. is a fiercely contested prize.

                    The competing I.S.C. squads all have various themes, including power type, geographic origin, ethnic heritage, and extracurricular interests. “Pride High” is the name of the protagonists’ squad, with the theme of a gay-straight alliance (“GSA”). This mirrors the extracurricular clubs in real life that serve as a safe-space for gay teens and their allies in sometimes hostile school environments.

                    One of the supporting characters is Pele:

                    Featured on the covers of Issues 1 & 3, she's a volcanic heroine who was born on the 113th anniversary of the coup that deposed Queen Lili'uokalani. She's the leader of a rival (but friendly) squad, whose teammates are all from Hawai'i. The squad name I came up with was "Children of Lili'uokalani," but I was pressed for time last year and had to submit to the printing press before I could get an accurate translation. So I decided to just wing it and put "Lili'uokalani" as the name of the group in print, with the understanding that this was just the shortened version of the full group name, which I would add later. It's now a year later, so I wanted to get some help before I complete the script for Issue 7 .

                    Anyway, that's pretty much everything in a nutshell. I would've elaborated earlier, but I hesitate to talk about my work on sites where comic books or LGBT projects might be deemed off-topic.
                    Last edited by verdant75; June 14, 2007, 09:11 AM.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Translation Help

                      WTF??

                      Pele and Lili'u, eh? And are you going to make all the LGBT kids see the light and turn straight? Not. Cool. Drown Pele and overthrow the club, or do what you have to and kill those characters off quick, please.

                      pax

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                      • #12
                        Re: Translation Help

                        I'm wondering if you misread gay-straight for gay-to-straight?

                        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay-straight_alliance

                        The LGBT members of the cast won't be going through any conversion process. They're happy with who they are.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Translation Help

                          Thanks for the input everyone . If I went with "Mamo" instead of "Keiki," would that have a more certain sentence construction?
                          It would be A-class as well.
                          Why did you go with mamo instead of keiki? Now it means "descendants of Lili'u." Are you claiming the students to be direct descendants of Hawaiian royalty? Not a good call in the naming department.

                          That's a very good point; perhaps the posessive varies for that reason - my knowledge of the language isn't deep enough to be certain. It's possible either usage cited is acceptable. Prior to this discussion, I'd have leaned toward "o" (based on its organizational usage not only for this album, but in hula halau names as well), but I wouldn't stake anything on it.
                          Using an O-class possessive is very rare with the word keiki, just as using an A-class possessive is very rare with makuakane, makuahine, kaikua'ana, kaikaina, poki'i, kaikunane, and kaikuahine.

                          I would not use O-class possessives for child. Are you aware of the difference between A and O-class possession in Hawaiian?
                          I ka wā i laulaha ai ka ‘apa‘apa, he hana ho‘āuhuli ka ‘ōlelo ‘ana me ka ‘oia‘i‘o.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Translation Help

                            Whoops! I misread that! I'll stick with Keiki. Thanks .

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                            • #15
                              Re: Translation Help

                              Originally posted by verdant75 View Post
                              I'm wondering if you misread gay-straight for gay-to-straight?

                              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay-straight_alliance

                              The LGBT members of the cast won't be going through any conversion process. They're happy with who they are.
                              they will be a lot happier with who they are than our goddess and queen having their mana spilled upon the whims of an artist's imagination. Seriously, you should compel your own imagination to come up with unique characters with their own unique names and magical talents, or whatever the point of your comic is. Not our queen. Not our goddess.

                              pax

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