running afoul

[dick]

Okay, I'll take the hook (line and sinker) to start another thread about businesses playing music.

The way I see it, if it's some dinky radio on a receptionist's desk, there shouldn't be any problem. That would be for the sole enjoyment of said receptionist.

But as soon as the music is played for the sake of others, essentially a "rebroadcast" (for wont of a better term), this ventures into another use of the music. I'm totally with ASCAP, et.al., on this one. Musicians make their living through royalties, and unauthorized use only milks them of well-deserved income.

[craigwatanabe]

Re: running afoul

I kinda agree with you, a radio as background music should be fine. As for intentional use, I see nothing wrong when it's used for fundraising for a good cause like fun runs, the Punahou carnival and such. Under the current law however I do see a problem when mobile DJs use it for profit or when night clubs use it for that same manner.

There in lies my gripe...the current law. One musician said their music is their trade tools to make money for a living so royalties should be imposed. That musician compared their songs as tools much as a carpenter uses his hammer to make a living. The difference is however that once that carpenter buys that hammer, he doesn't have to pay royalties everytime he drives a nail into a piece of lumber. He paid for that right to use Stanley's or Craftsman's hammers anyway he feels like so long as he doesn't bash in someone's head at Burger King near the UH.

But what if you copy the design and trademark of the Stanley or Craftsman tool to make money for yourself as in fake Rolex watches? Now that's a problem and for that reason I side with the law when it comes to Kazaa and other file swapping websites.

But if you bought that music legally, you paid that royalty to use it much like a carpenter paid for that hammer. That carpenter can use that hammer for personal or business use to make a treehouse for his kids or make a profit much like a music fan should be able to use that CD to play for his personal enjoyment or in his surf shop. He paid for the right to play that music already for fun or for profit! Now if he rips that CD and gives a copy to his friend...that would be the same as if that carpenter took a mold of his Stanley or Craftsman hammer and made copies of that hammer complete with logo and sell those for profit. That would be bad, that's illegal.

When a musician or songwriter contracts with a record label, I understand that musician agrees that the record company will upfront the cost of recording and distribution of the finished product. The musician then agrees to receive only a portion of the sales while the rest is used to "payback" the record company for their part in selling that song.

When MP3's are ripped from a bought CD, and those MP3's are distributed freely thru Kazaa it affects the sales of the official CD still on the racks thus preventing projected sales from being reached and that in turn keeps the musician in a starving mode because they cannot reap the profits once the distribution costs are completed. That's wrong under that contract agreement, however that kind of contract would seem crazy to agree to if it were any other kind of product or service knowing the impact of MP3 file swapping programs and services currently out in the marketplace.

Thank god for home studios and the internet, it gives starving musicians another outlet to sell their talent other than thru record companies. A long time ago record companies begged radio stations to give their newfound talents airtime to promote and sell their records to recover recording and distribution costs. Now the tables have turned with the musician's unions demanding royalty fees from radio stations in order to play the market share grabbing music.

Royalties should be utilized to prevent unauthorized reproduction of the material only. But the warning goes further into an unfair area when it describes reproduction as playing it as well.

This arguement has continued right into intellectual property rights when it comes to this message board. When you agree to enter this domain, you actually have to download the software to access and navigate thru this board. The agreement you check initially gives you the authorization to "copy" or reproduce this message board software in your computer for the uses stipulated by the agreement. But if you were to view this message board offline and saved that formatted information on another drive or removable media, that would be a violation of copyright laws. And guess what? We all have Temp Files, IE History files, Recent Document files and a host of other files that Microsoft automatically saves for some unforgiving wife to find and see those porno sites you've been surfing and the information and images don't disappear when you shut down your computer.

So where does that leave radio sets on the desks of receptionists? It better not have a tape or voice recorder built in that can save that music. Hitting that record button can legally get you into trouble.

So before logging off the internet goto: IE Tools / Internet Options / Delete cookies, delete files, clear history then do a disk cleanup in your System Tools utilities portion of the Accessories function of the All Programs menu to clear your temp files and such so you don't break any laws and keep your marriage safe. And delete those illegally ripped MP3 music you didn't pay for...yeah RIGHT!

[Ty Lee]

Re: running afoul

Very long, but very well put. However, the problem is that the licensing fees that are paid to ASCAP and BMI by radio and local TV are a joke, but have to be done. I have been a long time member of ASCAP and learned many years ago that they DON'T do royalty surveying on local radio and TV. As far as my research, there isn't one local artist that has gotten a royalty check from radio play. If so, it might be IZ because Mountain Apple is probably smart enough to get The Harry Fox agency to watch-dog the scenario.

And yes, the GREAT thing about today is the fact that an artist can do their own CD at home and sells on the internet or do "trunk sells" from shows. On the internet, if dine right, it gets you global exposure. A much brighter future than waiting around for local PD's to make line-up changes.

Music is now called "social currency" amongst future music industry entreasures. Hard copies will be a thing of the past in about 5 years according to these new business models I've seen. Downloading music for free is the new concept in order to engage money from live shows and merchandise. Then if you really want a CD, you by it at the show or order direct from the label. There was an article I read about a local artist who is doing great just burning CD's from his house without a middle-man. He even has airplay going right now (Sashamon from Kauai). I just read about another artist that's going to give his whole CD away from his sight.


Soon the value of radio is going to be challenged because of these changes.

My 2 cents....

Domo,

Ty Lee

Hey Mel, why don't you start a forum for local music biz and such?

[Ty Lee]

Re: running afoul

Opppps, should have done spell check on my last reply. Me type too fast for my brain......

[mel]

Re: running afoul

Hey Mel, why don't you start a forum for local music biz and such?

Perhaps a topic for "Hawaii's Local Music" should be started in the entertainment section of the main HawaiiThreads site. I'll forward this to Ryan.

[pzarquon]

Re: running afoul

Perhaps a topic for "Hawaii's Local Music" should be started in the entertainment section of the main HawaiiThreads site. I'll forward this to Ryan.

To discuss local music and local musicians, I think you'll find a home over at 'The Jukebox.' If you're talking more about the person than the product, there's 'Na Kanaka.'

But on the local music business - and, broadly, the local entertainment industry - I guess the best fit for now would be over on 'Bishop Street.' You can start a topic there that can launch discussions specific to the behind-the-scenes wheeling and dealing in local entertainment.

And, as with the all-topic, anything goes 'Mixed Plate' forum, if the number of threads on a particular topic make it clear they need their own home, we'll make one!

[Kimo Akane]

Re: What are Adult Standards - Why it's not successful

I'm not an expert on Intellectual Property Rights or The Copyright Laws however no musician, software programmer, author, actor, script writer etc... has a problem with the personal use of thier work that was paid for by said person.

I got lost with the hammer/carpenter analagy... but the problem is "when someone profits from someone else's work". A reasonable expectation wouldn't you agree?

For example you own a retail establishment and you play CD's/DVD's or the radio in your store. You (the store owner) are entertaining your customers (and it's proven that sales increase with music... think Christmas) by playing the CD's/DVD's etc and not paying for the right to use this property commercially you are profiting from someone else's work or stealing from them.

Lets say you wanna do a Freek A Leek sale. You go to your local radio station and say "Hey I'm having a Freak A Leek sale... play that song in my spot". Once again you would be stealing. Because you are profiting (by using the song) to advertise your sale... a sale where you and not the copyright owner or performer would benefit from.

So now you say "OK I'm going to have Keahiwai come in and sign autographs and sell thier cd for $9.99". Now both you and the artist are profiting and everyone is happy.

When you buy the DVD/CD/Software you are purchasing a PERSONAL license. Sure you can invite your buds over for a Matrix Marathon and thats cool but have the Matrix Marathon in your club where you are selling drinks and pupu and we're stealing again.

I hope this clarifies the personal vs. performance rights issues.

All stations participate in ASCAP and BMI reporting Radio/TV/Cable etc. Local artists do get thier share of these funds.

Local product gets very little airplay in the BIG picture. Lets say there are 3000 broadcast outlets how many play local product (full or part time) 30? Now consider the total songs these 3000 stations would play (3000 stations * 14 songs per hour * 24 Hours * 365 days)... then consider the total plays the local stations did (use the same math 30 * 14 * 24 * 365)... now factor in the population of Hawaii against the entire US.

Now you understand how little of this BIG pie comes to Hawaii.

Also remember that there is a perfomance payment and a publishing payment and publishing is where the money is at... just ask Paul McCartney, Dianne Warren, Barry Manilow or Michael Jackson (they all make way more in publishing).

[mel]

Re: What are Adult Standards - Why it's not successful

Thanks for that legal explanation Kimo. I remember in the old days of the 70s when I used to work at a drug store. We'd just have our radio playing or the 8-track going all day and no one came by to complain or tried to sue the store for playing music. Times must have change since.

So in the case of radio the music is the vehicle to sell commercials, but also serves as a way for people to get interested in the artist and song so that they buy it. Which is more true? Advertising vehicle, venue to sell records (CDs) or both?

[Krash Kolohe]

Re: What are Adult Standards - Why it's not successful

Whoa Kimo ...that's a compre...cumpah..comprohan..kumpuhans..um...
complete 'splanation of the issue of Intellectual Property Rights and Copy Right Laws.

Everybody needs their piece of the American Dream no?

Mel poses the often posed question.."which came first the
chicken or the egg?"

I mean the artist is getting exposure by the business that is
playing his/her music. That exposure by the business is FREE.
Should the artist PAY the business for the exposure his/her
music is getting at that place of business?

hmmm...

I wrote a song once ... but I didn't finish it.

Now everytime I hear a song, I wonder...hmmm...is that my song?
...and where's my lawyer dammit.

[craigwatanabe]

Re: running afoul

yeah where is that number "11" button when calling for an emergency

Whether it's stealing or not, I feel if you paid for that music you should be able to play it in your establishment to a point. Background where it's not being exploited should be alright. Saying you're having a Michael Jackson music video night at Rumours, now that's going too far, but that's just my opinion.

I really do feel sorry for musicians that are getting the short end of the stick when it comes to making a living, but hey like radio, you kinda knew that making lots of money was going to be hard when you decided to make it your bread and butter career.

Bottom line is that if you're gonna play music and don't want to pay the fees, then make sure it's your own creation or it's royalty-free just to be safe. Kimo and I may disagree but the law sides with him and unless the laws change, better listen to him. Sometimes laws are more convoluted than common sense but it's the law no matter what, I concede to Kimo.

[Kimo Akane]

Re: What are Adult Standards - Why it's not successful

Aloha Mel,

I believe that radio exists for the listeners... for the consumers. Thats why many of us have difficulty accepting the way things are going...

Whadaya mean the listeners don't want to hear a 15 minute opener where I have 25 teenage girls scream my name... WHAT ARE THEY THINKING? Don't they know its all about MEEEEeeeeeee!

Lets be honest... many of us got into media for the attention... lets be painfully honest and admit that we HATE change also (we're only human).

Because of Radio's competitiveness (ratings translate into revenue). Many programmers have turned to science to get an edge in the ratings. However when you shift the focus from the transmitter to the tuner its not the listeners ego that gets brusied.

So now we have a bunch of brusied egos HATING the science of the business and a bunch of scientists wanting to automate the station for a flawlessly executed sound... EVERYONE loses.

Personally I believe that the ART in radio should never replace the science... because art is what makes a truly GREAT station.

But it's as difficult for the ART guys to work the science as it is for the science guys to get the art... we have a scary scenario.

The only way for the Art to survive is for the ARTISTS to embrace the science (like in the Davinci Code).

We are not in Kansas anymore Toto... long gone are the days when RADIO was the PRIMARY form of entertainment in the Home & Car. Long gone are the days when Radio was the Primary method of exposing Music.

Now people are entertained by thier phone! How Sci-Fi is that!

Now people get exposed to new music on TV, thier computers, Cell Phones and even thier Video Games.

Like it or not we live in a time of great change and the world has changed alot since we all got in the biz... the only thing for sure... Radio will continue to change.

Thanks for that legal explanation Kimo. I remember in the old days of the 70s when I used to work at a drug store. We'd just have our radio playing or the 8-track going all day and no one came by to complain or tried to sue the store for playing music. Times must have change since.

So in the case of radio the music is the vehicle to sell commercials, but also serves as a way for people to get interested in the artist and song so that they buy it. Which is more true? Advertising vehicle, venue to sell records (CDs) or both?

[mel]

Re: What are Adult Standards - Why it's not successful

Thanks once again Kimo for the insightful and philosophical post. I know I have been in situtations where "art" conflicts with the practicality of "science".

[MichaelT]

Re: running afoul

Kimo is absolutely correct. Not only DO things change in Radio, they Should. If things had not changed, we'd still be gathered around the Radio listening to Soap operas or orchestras. We would not have graduated from some of the silly Arbitron games we used to play in the past thinking they actually worked. (Anyone remember advancing the time, saying it was 8:17 when it wasn't so you'd get credit for 2 quarter hours?)

Thank goodness things change. It creates excitement in our industry. It creates opportunity when there wasn't any. You can either rise or fall in the face of change. You have more choice than you think.

We'd all be better off doing 2 things: concentrating on doing the best Radio you can within the scope of your format, and doing everything you can to make Radio better tomorrow than it is today.

[craigwatanabe]

Re: running afoul

Yeah Michael!!! Go Falcons!

[Krash Kolohe]

Re: running afoul

...so lesseee.....how 'bout dis?

Um..my wireless phone rings with a number of popular
songs....

..when my business partner calls it rings:
"Another One Bites the Dust"

..when my brother calls me ...it plays 50 cents:
"In da Club"..

..when my ex calls it plays..
"Bitch is Back"

..when my girlfriend calls it plays :
"Brick House"

...when my boss calls it plays Janet Jackson
"Control"

who do I write the check to for playing their songs
each time I get a phone call??