Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

[Miulang]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

This is totally nuts. Now you have some protestors on Oahu too.

Miulang

[Composite 2992]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

This is totally nuts. Now you have some protestors on Oahu too.

Miulang

From their website:

"These are the exact same tactics used to push through the Stryker Brigade Combat Team, a cousin project to the Superferry, in the Hawaiian Islands. Both projects are part of the war machine & the military-industrial complex invading our islands."

Now they're saying it's related to the Stryker Brigade? The Superferry is a war machine?

Dick -- when you were taking photos for the newspaper did you notice any torpedo tubes or .50 cal machine guns anywhere? And that white/blue paint job isn't a smart tactical color.

According to an Advertiser article, one of the vehicles aboard the Superferry last night belonged to a Kauai resident who simply wanted to get his car to his new home on Kauai.

Another passenger wanted to take advantage of the low fare to see her son on Kauai before he deploys to the Middle East.

In the 19th Century a big Hawaiian guy named Kamehameha managed to unify the Islands but he had to do it by force. As Dick did, I thought we were a single state. Now there's a bunch of people who want to undo that concept and become isolationists. Close their islands off to outsiders.

If that's the case, then maybe stop all the commerce traffic. See how long it takes before the luddites turn against themselves, fighting over bags of rice and rolls of toilet paper.

[LikaNui]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

The cost to transport my musical instruments on the airlines as excess and over-sized baggage is prohibitive ($50+ per piece). HSF is my answer.

"Insturments"? The plural indicates that you must be a drummer.

[MatildaRose]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

Shoot. I really hope this Kabuki drama gets settled tomorrow. It's causing too much pilikia between locals and locals now.

And it's gotten a little worse for HSF, too. They just announced they are cancelling travel to Kauai indefinitely.

Miulang

I disagree that it's locals versus locals. Do the recent, ultra-rich transplants from the mainland now qualify as "locals?" Me thinks not.

[LikaNui]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

This is totally nuts.

No, what's totally nuts is your complete avoidance of answering my questions. I refer to this post:

So you quoted only a tiny fraction of a story -- the tiny fraction that supported your own Seattle-based biases. Well guess what -- I too quoted only a fraction of the story, so I did not violate the rules of HT but I DID provide the TRUE meaning of the story.
You're just too shameless to understand the difference.
But what do you have to say about the 200+ Maui farmers who support the SuperFerry?
What do you have to say about the President of that same group being on the SuperFerry's advisory council?!?
Stop ignoring the FACTS.

You always presume to be the spokesperson for all of Mau`i, so I'm sure we'd all like to hear the answers to my questions above.
I'll keep reminding you, in case you 'conveniently' miss reading this.
Like I did when you offered flagrantly wrong legal advice to someone in a different thread, as you may recall.
Heh, indeed.
Now answer the questions, please.

[kamuelakea]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

Now there's a bunch of people who want to undo that concept and become isolationists. Close their islands off to outsiders.

Try watch the "Extended Raw Video" on www.khnl.com.

Most of the protestors on that video were Haoles and most of the obnoxious ones (screaming at drivers, pounding windows, laughing) were definitely Haoles.

Don't know what that proves exactly but it appears true to me.

You try watch and tell me if I'm wrong.

[Miulang]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

I disagree that it's locals versus locals. Do the recent, ultra-rich transplants from the mainland now qualify as "locals?" Me thinks not.

If they pay Hawai'i state taxes, then they are residents. They may not have been born there, but they are paying taxes. And they are more "local"
than the tourists, who spend their money and leave. And if you look at the surnames of the people who have been arrested on Kauai, not all have "Mainland" names.

BTW: The organizers of Hui-R are using the media for their own ends, as is evidenced in this blog entry:

In light of the seriousness of the events surrounding the successful actions yesterday, and a quick scan through the media via daweb, I am realizing (yet again) that a meeting of minds would be quite helpful in greatly expanding, and sharpening a more cohesive and coherent media tactics and strategy.

The degree to which the HSF/EIS story has already been moving through the info-sphere is impressive in both scope and depth. Washington Post, Honolulu Star, LA. Scotland, Seattle, AP wire, etc. to name but a few.

Just from working with folks, I know there are powerful minds and much 'media working' knowledge, insight, skills and experience on this island. This is deeply heartening. Let's multiply this.

If we could convene within the next ~72 hours, and compare and share some of this knowlege - the nuts and bolts of tactical working of the media - we will realize greater social impact 'dividends' from all the hard work already being done on the ground.

Miulang

[kamuelakea]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

than the tourists, who spend their money and leave. And if you look at the surnames of the people who have been arrested on Kauai, not all have "Mainland" names.Miulang

What da &$&% are "Mainland" names???

These were the arrested: Hamm, Nieto, Zebe, Kirkpatrick, Valiere, Valiere, Pa

How does one tell between a mainland name and a non-mainland name Muilang?

[MatildaRose]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

If they pay Hawai'i state taxes, then they are residents. They may not have been born there, but they are paying taxes. And they are more "local"
than the tourists, who spend their money and leave. And if you look at the surnames of the people who have been arrested on Kauai, not all have "Mainland" names.

Miulang

I didn't say they aren't residents, did I? As for "tourists" (in the hospitality business we call them visitors), they spend their money and leave, that's true; however, the money they "leave" behind supports thousands and thousands and thousands of Hawaii residents on all islands who work in hotels, restaurants, rental car companies, airlines, etc., etc., but that's a different topic. Kauai has a long history of being anti-development and anti-growth, at least that's been the case since I moved here in 1973. What's disturbing is that Kauai and Maui have attracted the super, super wealthy who, in my view, have attempted to claim the island as their own. They don't want change; they want the piece of paradise they paid millions for, and screw anyone or any business that tries to promote change or that will bring more people to "their" island, including HSF. From the news reports I've seen, there are FAR more haoles protesting than local people. By far.

[Miulang]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

I didn't say they aren't residents, did I? As for "tourists" (in the hospitality business we call them visitors), they spend their money and leave, that's true; however, the money they "leave" behind supports thousands and thousands and thousands of Hawaii residents on all islands who work in hotels, restaurants, rental car companies, airlines, etc., etc., but that's a different topic. Kauai has a long history of being anti-development and anti-growth, at least that's been the case since I moved here in 1973. What's disturbing is that Kauai and Maui have attracted the super, super wealthy who, in my view, have attempted to claim the island as their own. They don't want change; they want the piece of paradise they paid millions for, and screw anyone or any business that tries to promote change or that will bring more people to "their" island, including HSF. From the news reports I've seen, there are FAR more haoles protesting than local people. By far.

Then how do you explain Moloka'i? Is that just an aberration? The "rich" Mainland folk on that island are trying to change a way of life over there (the most blatant being McAfee and the Moloka'i Ranch development at La'au Pt), and the "locals" are resisting.

As far as I know, no one is saying "no" to Superferry. All they want is some sort of environmental statement from HSF and the DOT. The DOT and HSF ignored a key trigger in Chapter 343 when they agreed to their operating agreement, which was that if the project required state funding or state lands, an EA had to be done to determine whether or not an EIS needed to be done. The part they neglected to consider was another little clause in the OEQC rules:

...All the exemptions of classes under this section are inapplicable when the cumulative impact of successive actions in the same place, over time, is significant, or when an action that is normally insignificant in its impact on the environment may be particularly significant in a sensitive environment.

The Supreme Court justices last week agreed unanimously that Kahului Harbor is a sensitive environment because of the fact that it is the only deep harbor port on Maui and already overcrowded, even without the arrival of HSF.


Miulang

[helen]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

I think the governor should call out KPD, the Coast Guard, and, if those folks can't handle it, the National Guard to keep the area clear of riffraff.

If the KPD and the Coast Guard can't keep the harbor clear, then the National Guard certainly can cordon off the area to prevent large numbers of people from approaching or entering the harbor. That should make the Coasties' job a little easier.

I don't know if you are aware of how Nawiliwili harbor is setup but there is a lot of places that are spread out where people can enter the water. It will take a lot of people to guard this area to prevent people from entering the water. And even then if they have small boats or canoes they can enter the water from nearby Hanamaulu Bay and come over to Nawiliwili to block the ferry.

Follow the example set by the civil rights movement in the 1960's. Rosa Parks did what she did because she believed to the deepst depth of her soul that she was right.

But Rosa Parks was not stopping the buses from running. She just wanted to sit on a seat while it was traveling.

"These are the exact same tactics used to push through the Stryker Brigade Combat Team, a cousin project to the Superferry, in the Hawaiian Islands. Both projects are part of the war machine & the military-industrial complex invading our islands."

Someone forgot to tell them all the Strykers on Oahu have left to go to the mainland for training.

In the 19th Century a big Hawaiian guy named Kamehameha managed to unify the Islands but he had to do it by force. As Dick did, I thought we were a single state. Now there's a bunch of people who want to undo that concept and become isolationists. Close their islands off to outsiders.

We might be a single state but there are differences between the islands, some of them can be taken in stride, others may not.

If that's the case, then maybe stop all the commerce traffic. See how long it takes before the luddites turn against themselves, fighting over bags of rice and rolls of toilet paper.

I am begining to believe that it's not the commerce traffic that frightens people but rather the concept of on a whim anyone with a car can hop into their car, drive down to the harbor, board the ferry, get to another island and just drive around on the other island without telling anyone.

[kamuelakea]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

Kauai has a long history of being anti-development and anti-growth, at least that's been the case since I moved here in 1973. What's disturbing is that Kauai and Maui have attracted the super, super wealthy who, in my view, have attempted to claim the island as their own. They don't want change; they want the piece of paradise they paid millions for, and screw anyone or any business that tries to promote change or that will bring more people to "their" island, including HSF. From the news reports I've seen, there are FAR more haoles protesting than local people. By far.

I think you are getting closer to the answer MatildaRose. I’ve been struggling to put my finger on this and have been fascinated with the events because I believe they are a sign of deeper currents.

This is not a racial issue. Its not a local versus anything else issue. It’s not even an environmental or development issue (maybe just a tinge of development but only for indirect reasons).

This is a classic historical Proletariat vs. Bourgeoisie battle. This is the steam being let off by those who perceive themselves as being at the “bottom” of the economic ladder yet surrounded with those who are at the “top”. It includes the hippie organic haole type, it includes the plantation Asians who aren’t making it right now, it includes Hawaiians who still aren’t surviving in their own land. In fact, it includes just about anyone who is struggling to survive in “Paradise” and that includes most people.

Maybe it’s more visible on Maui and Kauai because those Islands have become the land of the rich and the poor. They look like South America or Western China where the masses of poor are ruled by the filthy rich. Where the poor have to watch the rich live and play right in front of their eyes. That breeds envy and anger and this is the type of tantrum that gets thrown because that’s the only power these people feel they have.

I think we’re getting closer to at least explaining this unusual situation. But if I’m right, Hawaii is heading for some challenging times in the next few years. Social unrest may be on the rise unfortunately. And it may not be limited to Native Hawaiians.

Interesting.

[mel]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

I am begining to believe that it's not the commerce traffic that frightens people but rather the concept of on a whim anyone with a car can hop into their car, drive down to the harbor, board the ferry, get to another island and just drive around on the other island without telling anyone.

And what is wrong with that? In every other state of the union people are free to drive from one county to another without notification. The Superferry will allow regular folks like you, me and anyone else willing to go, to jump in their car take it to the Superferry and drive off and go for a cruise.

It would be nice to drive to Hana without worrying about violating a rental car agreement or drive up to Waimea Canyon or wherever. As someone pointed out on a radio show today, local visitors who bring their cars off island will drive around and when they finish take themselves and their vehicle back.

[Miulang]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

I think you are getting closer to the answer MatildaRose. I’ve been struggling to put my finger on this and have been fascinated with the events because I believe they are a sign of deeper currents.

This is not a racial issue. Its not a local versus anything else issue. It’s not even an environmental or development issue (maybe just a tinge of development but only for indirect reasons).

This is a classic historical Proletariat vs. Bourgeoisie battle. This is the steam being let off by those who perceive themselves as being at the “bottom” of the economic ladder yet surrounded with those who are at the “top”. It includes the hippie organic haole type, it includes the plantation Asians who aren’t making it right now, it includes Hawaiians who still aren’t surviving in their own land. In fact, it includes just about anyone who is struggling to survive in “Paradise” and that includes most people.

Maybe it’s more visible on Maui and Kauai because those Islands have become the land of the rich and the poor. They look like South America or Western China where the masses of poor are ruled by the filthy rich. Where the poor have to watch the rich live and play right in front of their eyes. That breeds envy and anger and this is the type of tantrum that gets thrown because that’s the only power these people feel they have.

I think we’re getting closer to at least explaining this unusual situation. But if I’m right, Hawaii is heading for some challenging times in the next few years. Social unrest may be on the rise unfortunately. And it may not be limited to Native Hawaiians.

Interesting.

Kam, you don't even want to go into the Neighbor Islands v. Honolulu debate again. But in fact, that is how many (definitely not all) of the Neighbor Islanders feel...decisions made in Honolulu are made for the convenience of the people of Honolulu. It's not just HSF, but it's about the healthcare system, etc., etc. etc. It's definitely not fair to the people of Oahu, but that's the perception.

Miulang

[joshuatree]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

Kam, you don't even want to go into the Neighbor Islands v. Honolulu debate again. But in fact, that is how many of the Neighbor Islanders feel...decisions made in Honolulu are made for the convenience of the people of Honolulu. It's not just HSF, but it's about the healthcare system, etc., etc. etc. It's definitely not fair to the people of Oahu, but that's the perception.

Miulang

This whole neighbor island vs Oahu spiel is getting rather old. If the neighbor islands hate Oahu so much, expand your airports and your ports to have all your flights and shipping direct to the outside world. All I hear is Oahu people want this, Oahu people want that. Yet no one ever acknowledges the ton of stuff that always comes through Oahu's ports to be rerouted to the neighbor islands. Where's the concern for contraband there? Where's the concern for traffic impact? Where's the concern for harbor space? Oh that's right, the neighbor islands don't care about that. Maybe it's better to break the state apart. Everyone be much happier.