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Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

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  • Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

    Dick in answer to your question:

    You were asked "by many" about going to live on Maui. I wonder how many, and who these people were.
    I went to visit my friend Kalani on Maui in 1989 who is originally from Oahu. Kalani and about a dozen or more of his friends rented a hotel room in Lahaina for the C & K concert. It was during my stay at the hotel where I was asked repeatedly about when I was going to move to Maui, like they did. Most of them were former residents of Oahu.

    Sure, "some" may regard Honolulu as a "huge metropolis," but I really think they're in the minority and are, quite frankly, very sheltered.
    Most of the people I came across who felt that way, never did travel beyond Hawaii.

    Comment


    • $uperfascUSterrorianism , Re: terrorUSt$ , Re: Hawaii fascist fairies' Superferry

      $uperfascUSterrorianism , Re: terrorUSt$ , Re: Hawaii fascist fairies' Superferry
      --- Nords= " ... let me interrupt the political diatribe here for a teachable moment: (What is Hawaii, what is Hawai'i , what is Hawai`i? ) What's the difference among the three? Is it more than grammar & format? ---

      Hawai'i with an apostrophe can be taken in the context of a broad range of meanings: from Hawaii to Hawai`i.

      re: Hawaii : written with no `okina and pronounced as such. Hawaii is the economic, social, political and judicial entity manifesting from and through more than a century of U.S. militaristic, colonialistic, economic justUS: the Republic of Hawaii, the Territory of Hawaii, the State of Hawaii . Not Hawai`i, a homeland to a people and evolving culture for many centuries prior to domination by US'$ of the U.S.; not one of the Pacific spiritual and cultural meccas whose hosts have borne untold abuse at the whims and dominating designs of their guests who chose to never return to the land from they derived their fundamental 'learned ideology', which ideology's economic cell is capitalUSt, political cell is corporatUSt, judicial cell is justUS, chief guiding principle is hypocrUSy, chief source of wealth is ruinUSness of other peoples and cultures, chief source of common identity is militarUSt$, imperialUSt$ endeavors on Earth aka superfascUSterrorism. and Beyond aka USraelism, aka USisrealism .
      Last edited by waioli kai; September 2, 2007, 10:46 AM.

      Comment


      • Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

        What makes the SuperFerry a concern from any other ship that travels in Hawaiian waters is it's speed. It has been pointed out many times that this is a risk to humpback whales. Perhaps but the SuperFerry and other ships operating in Hawaiian waters are not going out of their way to harm the whales.

        The SuperFerry could lower it's speed but that would mean traveling to one island a day as opposed to two a day. They could alternate days.

        Or in the meantime just travel to Kauai, going at a slower speed, like the speed of cruise ship or slower. People protesting about the enviroment should be able to understand this.

        Comment


        • re: uninvited influence/predator to Hawai`i , Re: Hawaii Superferry - Ch. 5

          re: uninvited influence/predator to Hawai`i , Re: Hawaii Superferry - Ch. 5
          --- helen= " What makes the SuperFerry a concern from any other ship that travels in Hawaiian waters is it's speed. It has been pointed out many times that this is a risk to humpback whales. ...

          The SuperFerry could lower it's speed but that would mean traveling to one island a day as opposed to two a day. They could alternate days.

          Or in the meantime just travel to Kauai, going at a slower speed, like the speed of cruise ship or slower. People protesting about the environment should be able to understand this. "

          That's a well reasoned suggestion. Maybe when such a consideration is presented to Oahu's neighbors, Superferry investors would have agreed to hold public hearings during an EIS process while they use their new ferry in a political, social, environmental and economic zone that is more welcoming to the alleged values of the Superferry and at least possibly profitable, or at the bare minimum not Superferry investors' feared "blackhole",,,, but... whatevers... continuing as a charitable beneficiary of Hawaii taxpayers and uninvited guest to Hawai`i is unacceptable...Thanks but no thanks Governor Lingle.
          Last edited by waioli kai; September 2, 2007, 11:14 AM.

          Comment


          • Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

            Originally posted by dick View Post
            Good lord, get off your high horse (again).

            You spend a whopping "almost four years" on an island other than Oahu, and suddenly you're an expert.

            I get the feeling that you may be making feeble attempts at the "devil's advocate" thing, but it's really coming across as you being extremely narrow-minded and somewhat foolish.

            Look, not everyone wants to live in a fairy tale neverland of the past. It's 2007, fercrissakes, and it's time this state actually has a reasonable mode of inter-island transport aside from aircraft.

            Dick...I never claimed to be an expert so stop feeling yourself. I did say that's what I'm hearing from people I encounter here on the Big Island. Are they the majority? No I don't think so but before you chastise me for my high horse remember I am in favor of the SF.

            And you got one thing right, I am playing DA here, and as narrow minded as it sounds it has enough credance to warrant protest from the few who actually represent narrow mindedness and cause the SF to halt service.

            Inter-island transport other than aircraft is fine...but the paranoia that seems to run among those against the SF is against how that inter-island transportation is utilizing the automobile as the means.

            It doesn't take a lifetime of being on another island to feel the rub from those on those islands who don't want things done. But it does take a lifetime of residency to understand the Honolulu perspective of why the SF is needed. But to neighbor islanders...it doesn't take much to sense a frustration from them.

            It seems the neighbor islands don't want Honolulu to drive to their islands while Honolulu does (generalization). Is it a few or the majority? Well it's enough to stop SF dead in it's tracks for now. And that's a telling story.

            And Dick, to you it may seem like a feeble attempt but instead of discounting this observation wholesale maybe an objective dialog should be presented instead. I'm giving this forum another reason why SF is failing from what I am encountering from those here on the neighbor islands who are against SF plus my decades of Honolulu-centric position I embraced growing up on Oahu.

            Fly to the moon...HOGWASH...but we did it. Try looking at it from a different perspective and understand the issue from the other side before discounting what I'm suggesting.

            Remember...I want the SF to succeed so my bias is on your side but to understand the possible reasons why it may not succeed, I need to take off those blinders of bias and see the bigger picture. I don't think I'm the one suffering from narrow-mindedness or foolishness here.
            Life is what you make of it...so please read the instructions carefully.

            Comment


            • Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

              By the way, having lived in "Honolulu" until the age of 12, then moving to Leeward Oahu, I learned at an early age that there's a huge difference in the type of people you find in varioius communities here.

              Folks living in Nanakuli are unique and different from those living in Manoa. Not better or worse. Just different.

              People in Kahaluu think some Leeward folks are "townies".

              Less than 60 miles apart, yet vastly different outlooks on life.

              So the neighbor islanders shouldn't be sterotyping those from Oahu to be strictly urbanites. Some of the people living on this island are more "country" than many living on Maui and Kauai.

              And a lot of those living here are as sensitive or more sensitive to the environment than many neighbor islanders.

              The hysteria against the Superferry is just that: hysteria. Maybe it takes a bridge like this to bring people together and improve the level of understanding.

              Comment


              • Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

                Originally posted by helen View Post
                What makes the SuperFerry a concern from any other ship that travels in Hawaiian waters is it's speed. It has been pointed out many times that this is a risk to humpback whales. Perhaps but the SuperFerry and other ships operating in Hawaiian waters are not going out of their way to harm the whales.

                The SuperFerry could lower it's speed but that would mean traveling to one island a day as opposed to two a day. They could alternate days.

                Or in the meantime just travel to Kauai, going at a slower speed, like the speed of cruise ship or slower. People protesting about the enviroment should be able to understand this.
                SuperFerry cruising speed is 37 knots (42 mph). A nuclear aircraft carrier will blow its doors off, and it will carry several thousand people, and hundreds of wheeled and winged vehicles.
                Make trouble, have fun, do good stuffs.

                Comment


                • Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

                  Whales are at risk half of the year. The other half they're up north going for the krill.

                  There are forward-looking sonar systems capable of providing sufficient warning, and those consumer-level systems are about $1000. That's about 1/8 of what a typical Superferry trip will consume in fuel. With more sophisticated equipment there's no reason why whales wouldn't be relatively easy to spot and avoid.

                  Slowing down wouldn't hurt. But in the absence of actual rudders reducing thrust can actually compromise maneuverability. The same with jet skis. Back off on the throttle and suddenly you lose steering. I don't know if the Superferry is the same way. But if they're using directed thrust to provide directional control, then it's something that has to be dealt with should they have to slow down.

                  Comment


                  • LCLingle: noEIS for uninvited influence/predator to Hawai`i , Re: Hawaii Superferry

                    .
                    '...Without revenues from ferry operations, Garibaldi said Superferry would not be paying fees to the state that could be used to service debt on the $40 million in harbor improvements. With no return on investment, he added, Superferry might "lose control of the ferries."

                    "The investors and lenders will cause the ferries to be deployed where they can generate revenues," Garibaldi said.' http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070902/NEWS01/709020359

                    For all of you Superferry enthusiasts: nothing would exemplify your enthusiasm more than sinking your savings into HSF, Inc. Convinced as you express to be that Superferry is economically, not to mention socially and culturally, right on and, as you allege, is so wanted by such an overwhelming number of Hawaii citizens, then, Superferry has to be a wonderful return on whatever you can manage to invest. Even if, as Garibaldi suggests is a possibly (if not a threat, as laughable as such a threat would be !!) , his investor bosses decide to deploy their Superferry elsewhere, it just has to be a great investment, at least as long as no EIS is required * wherever else the Lehman-Superfairie$ may decide to deploy their ideology and the monster craft on which it is ferried, right?
                    *that is, Democracy/citizenry/popular educated opinion is bound and tethered ...but most importantly: gagged. The State of Hawaii's Executive Branch of Linda Cutter Lingle http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linda_Lingle won every battle for those they represented in the Superferry war against an EIS prior to first one's premature, abortive maiden trips.
                    .
                    Last edited by waioli kai; September 2, 2007, 11:54 PM.

                    Comment


                    • Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

                      Originally posted by Composite 2992 View Post
                      By the way, having lived in "Honolulu" until the age of 12, then moving to Leeward Oahu, I learned at an early age that there's a huge difference in the type of people you find in varioius communities here.

                      Folks living in Nanakuli are unique and different from those living in Manoa. Not better or worse. Just different.

                      People in Kahaluu think some Leeward folks are "townies".

                      Less than 60 miles apart, yet vastly different outlooks on life.

                      So the neighbor islanders shouldn't be sterotyping those from Oahu to be strictly urbanites. Some of the people living on this island are more "country" than many living on Maui and Kauai.

                      And a lot of those living here are as sensitive or more sensitive to the environment than many neighbor islanders.

                      The hysteria against the Superferry is just that: hysteria. Maybe it takes a bridge like this to bring people together and improve the level of understanding.
                      You call it hysteria, I call it paranoia, either way it's based on unfounded fears.

                      There is a difference between Oahu in general and the neighbor islands. Yes people from Nanakuli are different from those in Kahala, however there is still the common thread that makes them residents of Oahu.

                      One thing I've noticed about the neighbor islands is the connection to the Aina. Even my wife (from Wahiawa) feels the neighbor islands have a stronger connection to the land than when we were on Oahu.

                      Yes there are those concerned with the environment from all islands, but in general, the feelings of conservation are higher on the neighbor islands because they haven't gotten as overdeveloped as Oahu (well for the most part anyway) and we want to minimize growth or at least keep it in check to be environmentally friendly. There are ways to control growth yet not inhibit it. The SF represents (albeit not fairly) those concerns or or fears.

                      I believe also like you that the SF can be the link in which these fears can be put to rest however the hard part is convincing those against the SF of these ideals. It doesn't help the situation when there are people on both sides of the issue that are bent on seeing only their own ways.

                      Dick feels I'm narrow minded? Hey I'm a supporter of the SF but am trying to understand the other side's fears. If that's narrow minded well then so be it.

                      But if one feels only their side of this issue and discounts those against it, well who is more narrow-minded?
                      Life is what you make of it...so please read the instructions carefully.

                      Comment


                      • Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

                        Originally posted by craigwatanabe View Post
                        One thing I've noticed about the neighbor islands is the connection to the Aina. Even my wife (from Wahiawa) feels the neighbor islands have a stronger connection to the land than when we were on Oahu.
                        Again, generalizations aren't universal.

                        There are lots of people here on Oahu who have a very strong connection to the land. Especially compared to yuppies living in Princeville, Wailuku or Kona. The Reppun brothers in Waiahole/Waikane who raise taro are just one example. Rancher Albert Silva in Makua. Dalani Tanahy in Waianae who has been part of the Hawaiian cultural renaissance. And there is a cadre of fishermen who make their livelihood from the sea and have the ocean's welfare close to their heart.

                        Some of the best proponents for maintaining that connection to the land are found right here on Oahu. Some of the biggest movements for maintaining the health of the aina got their start right here. Again, generalizations don't apply.

                        On the other hand...

                        Kihei got messed up because of Maui's own county government allowing development exemptions. The original rules long ago prohibited any construction makai of the highway. Look at it now. I remember when it was little more than a wide spot in the road. Same with Paia. Development on the neighbor islands isn't driven nor mandated by Oahu's government or people. The people of Maui did all that to themselves, or allowed it to happen.

                        Same with Kona. It's on the verge of becoming a mess. Money might come in from elsewhere, but the people on the Big Island are responsible for letting it all happen. Well, perhaps elected officials are letting it happen. Allowing "gentlemen" farmers in Hamakua to bend the rules regarding agricultural zoning codes are another example of local government failing to protect their own communities from overzealous developers.

                        None of this came from Oahu. These problems are home grown.

                        And it all happened long before the Superferry was even a concept.

                        Comment


                        • paranoiUS , Re: Hawaii Superferry - Ch. 5

                          -
                          ---craigwatanabe= " I call it paranoia, either way it's based on unfounded fears. " ---

                          When paranoia is "a tendency on the part of an individual or group toward excessive or irrational suspiciousness and distrustfulness of others" do Honolulu's neighbor islanders need a whole lot more grounds than they already have on which to be justifiably suspicious and distrustful of HSF,Inc. not to mention soundly suspicious and distrustful of federal and state governments when it comes to Hawaii Superferry, Inc.?

                          Comment


                          • Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

                            Originally posted by craigwatanabe View Post
                            but in general, the feelings of conservation are higher on the neighbor islands because they haven't gotten as overdeveloped as Oahu
                            By the way, I really would rather see Kihei -- and Waikiki -- back to what they were like in the early 1960's. But you and I know (sadly) that ain't gonna happen.

                            Comment


                            • paranoiUS , Re: Hawaii Superferry - Ch. 5

                              -
                              ---craigwatanabe= " I call it paranoia, either way it's based on unfounded fears. " ---

                              When paranoia is "a tendency on the part of an individual or group toward excessive or irrational suspiciousness and distrustfulness of others" do Honolulu's neighbor islanders need a whole lot more grounds than they already have on which to be justifiably suspicious and distrustful of HSF,Inc. not to mention soundly suspicious and distrustful of federal and state governments when it comes to Hawaii Superferry, Inc.?
                              If the Lingle administration and the ferry's owners had paid attention to environmental concerns in the first place, they would not be in the middle of this swirling controversy, opponents contend.

                              Jonathan Ornstein -- who has generated his own share of controversy as the head of Mesa Air Group's new interisland airline go! -- says the Superferry shutdown sends the message that potential mainland investors "have to be cognizant of the concerns of the people you hope to service, and you have to work with all the parties who have an interest or a possible impact on your business. http://starbulletin.com/2007/09/02/news/story01.html"
                              .


                              Hawaii Angels =?= Hawaii Superfairies :
                              "From an investment point of view, this is absolutely a black eye," said Rob Robinson, president of Hawaii Angels, a private investors group. "You have mainland investors and you have local investors all putting their money in on a good-faith basis, and then to have this thing stopped at the eleventh hour because of legal questions makes the environment for investing here look extremely unstable. This certainly is counter to the governor's attempts to create an innovation-based economy, and to develop our infrastructure and our economy."

                              Development, growth, development, growth, development,... ....ad infinitum... such is capitalist ideology and capitalUSt delusions and deceits: everything is infinite: land and ocean resources, plentiful waters, open lands, living space, disposal space, then there is Space itself where, capitalists dream, surely there exists more bounty for capitalism to exploit.
                              .
                              Last edited by waioli kai; September 3, 2007, 01:20 AM.

                              Comment


                              • Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

                                Originally posted by craigwatanabe View Post
                                Dick feels I'm narrow minded? Hey I'm a supporter of the SF but am trying to understand the other side's fears. If that's narrow minded well then so be it.

                                But if one feels only their side of this issue and discounts those against it, well who is more narrow-minded?
                                Hey, man, I "understand the other side's fears" -- as baseless and absurd as they may be. But I sure as hell don't agree with them. I just choose not to put forth wild generalizations in some effort to validate their points.

                                "Feeling myself??"

                                Uh, whatever, dude... *cough* ...

                                I think you're the one doing the (ahem) "feeling."

                                I don't care if you're for the ferry or not, you still sound like you're pontificating about something you really don't know anything about. You're a transplant to another island, plain and simple, yet you have a high-horse attitude like you know what you're talking about.

                                You had a hard time adjusting to rural life with your Honolulu car-ego... well, sorry to hear about it. You proudly work at one of those so-called "big-box" stores which are fabled to ruin humanity and the simple island life everyone so enjoyed, yet you yearn for those simpler days of yore (thus your move to the Big Island).

                                I don't quite get it.

                                Comment

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