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Thread: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

  1. #101

    Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 4

    Quote Originally Posted by Star of Gladness View Post
    [Right now on Maui I can find lobster walking around in the daytime. 1 to 2 years after HSF gives Oahu's poachers access this will no longer happen.
    Interesting. Having been a diver for a quarter century, I have never seen a lobster walking around in the daytime. They're usually hiding in holes and come out only at night.

  2. #102
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    Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 4

    Quote Originally Posted by Palolo Joe View Post
    Back on-topic: The TRO is a farce. I wonder how long it will be until the HSF folks sue the state over the loss of revenue.
    It probably won't happen unless a permanant injuction is placed on HSF from serving Kahului in 10 days. If a permant injunction is imposed, you'll
    see a whole slew of lawsuits happen. It won't be pretty,nor it will put Hawaii in a positive light. It will give a bigger black eye to investors who potentially
    want to invest money here.I betcha the Sierra Club folks, a saying "Viva People's Republic of Hawaii."
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  3. #103
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    Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 4

    Quote Originally Posted by Star of Gladness View Post
    One thing I haven't even seen mentioned here is the use of Federal troops against US Citizens. This violates the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878 Federal troops are prohibited from being used against US Citizens. Oh it happens from time to time, Waco, Ruby Ridge, the LA Riots but not that often. Add Nawiliwili to the list!
    Not really. The Posse Comitatus Act doesn't cover the Coast Guard, who I believe were at Nawiliwili on Sunday afternoon.

  4. #104
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    Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 4

    Quote Originally Posted by Star of Gladness View Post
    Lets just say out of your dozen people only one of them is with a group that will poach the reef. Right now on Maui I can find lobster walking around in the daytime. 1 to 2 years after HSF gives Oahu's poachers access this will no longer happen. GUARANTEED.
    It's this type of NIMBY attitude that's such a joke. GUARANTEED how, exactly? You don't know.

    Quote Originally Posted by Star of Gladness View Post
    YGTBSM... With $5 fares its cheaper to park the damned thing than operate it.
    YGTBSM? Whatever. You obviously have no understanding of the business model. There's no point in arguing with ignorance.

  5. #105

    Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 4

    Quote Originally Posted by Palolo Joe View Post
    What a load of crap... coming from your co-workers, of course.

    The Superferry tickets, before the fare sale, were MORE expensive than getting on an airplane.

    Why haven't the homeless flown to the neighbor islands on GO!'s $19 fares?

    All the "riffraff" from Oahu are going to screw up the Big Island? Then it might be fair to say that some of the "riffraff" from the Big Island are screwing things up here for us.

    The NIMBY attitudes from some neighbor island people is worse than some of the spew that comes from recent mainland arrivals to Oahu.

    These people were not my coworkers, but two edumakated business owners and their two managers.

    *sigh*

    when it became clear to me that it was arguing with paranoia, there was no sense in arguing.

    pax

  6. #106
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    Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 4

    Is Palolo Joe correct in saying that Pua'i Mana'o is on the Big Island? If so the SuperFerry is currently planned to run between Oahu, Maui and Kauai. The Big Island service is another couple of years away. They got nothing to worry about the riffraff coming in from the sea for another two years.

  7. #107
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pua'i Mana'o View Post
    These people were not my coworkers, but two edumakated business owners and their two managers. when it became clear to me that it was arguing with paranoia, there was no sense in arguing.
    Sad, sad, sad.

    But not as sad as the behavior of the protesters on Kauai. Just saw footage on the news of people bashing on a SUV and trying to deflate one of its tires.

    I'm thankful I wasn't on that voyage yesterday. If someone were trying to mess with my personal property, it would have gotten ugly pretty fast.

    I'm all for exercising free speech, but all bets are off when you stop focusing on the message and start taking it out on innocent bystanders.

    It's also shameful to see some residents attempting to pit island against island. Just because you're a HAWAII RESIDENT on Oahu, it means you can't travel to Maui or Kauai to enjoy the rest of the state you're a resident of?

    Hey, maybe you'll read about me getting arrested later this week... especially if the protests continue.

    Quote Originally Posted by helen View Post
    Is Palolo Joe correct in saying that Pua'i Mana'o is on the Big Island? If so the SuperFerry is currently planned to run between Oahu, Maui and Kauai. The Big Island service is another couple of years away. They got nothing to worry about the riffraff coming in from the sea for another two years.
    Yes, PM is on the Big Island. You're missing the point.

  8. #108

    Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 4

    Quote Originally Posted by Composite 2992 View Post
    What or who is truly behind these protests? Perhaps someone found a way to get the "enviros" fired up against the Superferry. After all, the claims of potential damage by the Superferry don't make any sense when weighed against all existing forms of transport. But if enough people yell loud enough and long enough, someone in a position to foul up the process is bound to take notice. And so there's now a TRO in place.

    These companies will find ways to support the protestors efforts in ways that aren't obvious. They'll make it look like the movement to stop the Superferry is actually a grass-roots campaign. Courts and lawyers are expensive. Someone is shoveling a huge pile of money to stop the Superferry. Perhaps because some companies are at risk of losing even more money due to a reduction of cars and trucks to ship between the islands.
    The reason why Justice August revised his original order was not necessarily because of HSF starting business early, but because the DOT did not finish the lane striping and other mitigations that Judge August ordered last week that had to occur before the start of business.

    The DOT had promised Judge August at that time that they would meet the deadline of doing the lane striping before HSF docked at Kahului Harbor on Sunday, but the DOT didn't finish in time (they were still not done when HSF left Kahului Sunday morning). That's probably the major reason for the 4 cop/2 vehicles/minute order. Judge August issued an order and DOT failed to uphold their part of the agreement.

    And it's not that the whackos on Maui and Kauai don't want HSF; but they do want some serious questions answered in advance. HSF and DOT on the other hand, are practicing what I call the "puppy dog in the pet shop window" tactic: once it's in operation, everybody will see it's way too valuable to take back to the pet store.

    YB raised some concern initially about losing some of its space at Kahului Harbor, but I have never seen any evidence of them joining in on any of the protests, and they are the ones who would have the greatest gripes about HSF, but they are not part of any suits. Neither is NCL. Maui Land and Pineapple invested a whole buncha money in HSF, so it can't be them either. I don't know who all the members of Maui Tomorrow are (although I do know that Lee Cataluna writes for them every now and then), or the Sierra Club or the Save Kahului Harbor Coalition, but I seriously doubt that there are a bunch of high rollers in any of those organizations.

    Miulang
    "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like. --Mark Twain

  9. #109
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    Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 4

    Quote Originally Posted by helen View Post
    Is Palolo Joe correct in saying that Pua'i Mana'o is on the Big Island? If so the SuperFerry is currently planned to run between Oahu, Maui and Kauai. The Big Island service is another couple of years away. They got nothing to worry about the riffraff coming in from the sea for another two years.
    I would be extremely surprised if HSF will be able start service to Kawaihae by 2009. As it stands now, a new pier will have to be constructed at Kawaihae
    to accommodate the HSF. The pier that HSF was going to be using,Pier 1 (which got severely damaged in the October earthquake) has necessitated
    a new pier to be built on the Ka'u side of the harbor. The 2008 STIP has a map of the proposed pier location.

    http://www.hawaii.gov/dot/stp/stip/b...state-proj.pdf
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  10. #110
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    Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 4

    Why are our friends on the neighbor islands worried about us coming there, when we're not worried about THEM coming HERE? Really, if they think all those drugs are going to just float on in, what about all the weed that'll be coming back? Not to mention fattening doughnuts, nerdy astronomers, and people who insist on calling it "ice shave?" The children! Who will protect our children?!

    Speaking of doughnuts, will daytrippers have time to drive from Kawaihae to Tex Drive-In and back?
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  11. #111

    Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 4

    The incident at Ruby Ridge was the FBI. Domestic law enforcement.

    The Coast Guard also has a similar mandate to enforce the laws in Hawaiian waters. More importantly, they save a lot of lives and prevent a lot of maritime tragedies.

    They helped protect the protesters from getting themselves mained or killed. If the Superferry hadn't seen some of the people in the water, and the Coast Guard weren't there to herd these people out of the way, there could have been some serious mishaps.

    I believe there's a time and place for civil disobedience. However, in this situation the protests are based on faulty reasoning. And because of that, the motives are suspect.

  12. #112

    Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 4

    Quote Originally Posted by scrivener View Post
    Speaking of doughnuts
    Oh, Scrivener - we don't do that here. Someone will get all huhu now. Someone who doesn't need the Superferry, as they can just keep riding the Bitterness Bus.

  13. #113
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    Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

    Someone sent me a website link to some pictures from yesterday's shennigans on Kauai

    http://homepage.mac.com/juanwilson/i...KauaiReps.html

    http://homepage.mac.com/juanwilson/i...dedforHSF.html
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  14. #114
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    Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

    Sorry duplicate post
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  15. #115
    kamuelakea Guest

    Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 4

    Quote Originally Posted by Miulang View Post
    And it's not that the whackos on Maui and Kauai don't want HSF; but they do want some serious questions answered in advance.
    Miulang
    Oooohhhhh, serious questions............. like;

    "The environmentalists argued in a lawsuit that the ferry's plan to ply 400 miles of Hawaii waters each day endangers whales, threatens to spread invasive species and will worsen traffic and pollution."

    What a load of kukai.

    Protect the whales? Great, why not go after the Japanese who to this day HUNT AND MURDER 1000 per year for Sushi, oh I mean "research"? Really, is one little boat on the ocean going to affect the whales any more than the hundreds of military ships or thousands of recreational boats do or the 1000s killed by Japanese?

    Spread invasive species? So you got thousands and thousands of plane trips crisscrossing the islands for 60 years but couple superferry trips will disrupt the perfect biological balance of the islands. LIAR LIAR PANTS ON FIRE.

    Worsen Traffic? Every year Maui and Kauai approve thousands of new homes for development but a few dozen cars off the superferry are going to be the cause of pollution and traffic? How many cars arrive by barge every year on Maui. I GUARANTEE you its way more than will arrive and remain by Superferry.

    These protesters are the worst kind of cancer on society. They take reasonable causes and exploit them for their own ANTI-everything childhood tantrum needs.

    Silly.

  16. #116
    kamuelakea Guest

    Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

    Oh and don't forget the other serious problem that "they didn't paint the lanes".

    Whew, lucky dey when catch dat one. How many would have died.

    Of course when Dan Inouye sneeks H-FRICKEN-3 through congress by attaching it to a spending bill and sneaking an evnironmental exemption so that ONE BEEEG SUCKIN UGLY scar with effects that will result for eternity,

    where's Miulang? Where's the protestors?

    Dey driving Halawa to Kaneohe enjoying da view.

    Hawaii is one psychologically messed up place.

  17. #117
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    Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 4

    Quote Originally Posted by scrivener View Post
    Speaking of doughnuts, will daytrippers have time to drive from Kawaihae to Tex Drive-In and back?
    No.

    Too far away. About 35 miles, winding road up, bad traffic in Kamuela/Waimea; clear to Honokaa but you have to repeat that all over again going back.
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  18. #118
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    Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 4

    Quote Originally Posted by Leo Lakio View Post
    Oh, Scrivener - we don't do that here. Someone will get all huhu now. Someone who doesn't need the Superferry, as they can just keep riding the Bitterness Bus.
    Keep it up with the stupid, back-handed comments. They're off-topic, just like the majority of your posts.

  19. #119
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    Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 4

    Quote Originally Posted by mel View Post
    No.

    Too far away. About 35 miles, winding road up, bad traffic in Kamuela/Waimea; clear to Honokaa but you have to repeat that all over again going back.
    What if I drive like a Big-Islander?
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  20. #120
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    Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 4

    Quote Originally Posted by mel View Post
    No.

    Too far away. About 35 miles, winding road up, bad traffic in Kamuela/Waimea; clear to Honokaa but you have to repeat that all over again going back.

    I grudingly agree, but it really depends on what HSF's schedule is going to be to Kawaihae. If the traffic wasn't so horrible up in Waimea during peak times
    it could be doable depending on the HSF's schedule to Kawaihae.
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  21. #121

    Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 4

    Quote Originally Posted by kamuelakea View Post
    Oooohhhhh, serious questions............. like;

    "The environmentalists argued in a lawsuit that the ferry's plan to ply 400 miles of Hawaii waters each day endangers whales, threatens to spread invasive species and will worsen traffic and pollution."

    What a load of kukai.

    Protect the whales? Great, why not go after the Japanese who to this day HUNT AND MURDER 1000 per year for Sushi, oh I mean "research"? Really, is one little boat on the ocean going to affect the whales any more than the hundreds of military ships or thousands of recreational boats do or the 1000s killed by Japanese?

    Spread invasive species? So you got thousands and thousands of plane trips crisscrossing the islands for 60 years but couple superferry trips will disrupt the perfect biological balance of the islands. LIAR LIAR PANTS ON FIRE.

    Worsen Traffic? Every year Maui and Kauai approve thousands of new homes for development but a few dozen cars off the superferry are going to be the cause of pollution and traffic? How many cars arrive by barge every year on Maui. I GUARANTEE you its way more than will arrive and remain by Superferry.

    Silly.
    Kam, listen to the Supreme Court oral statements from both sides from last week. Then you will understand why the Judge ruled the way he did. The DOT, in order to bring in more revenues in the form of rent on facilities, got into an agreement with HSF to start operation before an EA was done, which was in clear violation of Chapter 343 of the Hawai'i Revised Statutes. In exchange for that exemption from DOT, HSF was able to secure Title XI loan guarantees from MARAD. They also promised the DOT that they would do some sort of EIS once they started operations, and the DOT agreed to that. That is what the judge was concerned about.

    I'm still trying to figure out how HSF was able to get the loan guarantee without having to present at least an EA to the feds to prove that they were going to be able to meet any federal environmental regulations; maybe loan guarantees are not the same thing as getting actual money.

    In any case, it was a Catch-22 situation for HSF: without the exemption from an EA/EIS from the DOT, HSF could not have gotten the federal loan guarantee, which was for a pretty substantial amount of money.

    What's kind of silly about this whole situation is that if the DOT had abided by the Hawai'i Revised Statutes and not exempted HSF, they wouldn't have this TRO thrown in their faces right now and there wouldn't have been all this pilikia.

    And I would rather this whole thing be duked out in court than by protesters getting hurt or arrested in nonviolent demonstrations, but some people feel they have no other recourse, and in this democracy they do have a right to speak their own minds.

    Miulang
    "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like. --Mark Twain

  22. #122
    kamuelakea Guest

    Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 4

    Quote Originally Posted by Miulang View Post
    Kam, listen to the Supreme Court oral statements from both sides from last week. Miulang
    Miulang, honey gurl.

    I ain't no lawyer. OJ got off. Ainokea about the legal details like you. Maybe DOT screwed up. Maybe the first Judge blew it. Maybe Superferry when too fast. Maybe maybe maybe.

    Instead of trying to act judge lawyer and jury from 2500 miles away, I'm just saying that no matter what the details of the legal game are, the clowns who are jumping on their surfboards and trying to block this boat in the name of the "environment" are frauds.

    If they really wanted to protect the environment, there are 1000 other ways to use their precious time and energy that might actually have an impact. Trying to stop one silly little boat is not the means to their stated ends. They are wasting their energy at best and they are frauds at worst.

  23. #123

    Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

    Quote Originally Posted by kamuelakea View Post
    Oh and don't forget the other serious problem that "they didn't paint the lanes".

    Whew, lucky dey when catch dat one. How many would have died.
    .
    Unfortunately, Kam, DOT did not uphold their part of the agreement with Judge August that all the lane striping would be done before Sunday morning at 9:30 a.m.. Are you telling me you don't obey the law? I don't care how frivolous you think this might be, but it was a legal agreement. Be grateful it's only a TRO until next Wed., which is when HSF was supposed to start business.

    Miulang
    "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like. --Mark Twain

  24. #124
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    Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 4

    Quote Originally Posted by scrivener View Post
    What if I drive like a Big-Islander?
    I'm originally from there and people over here say I drive too slow. So for someone like me, not enough time.


    Quote Originally Posted by Konaguy
    I grudingly agree, but it really depends on what HSF's schedule is going to be to Kawaihae. If the traffic wasn't so horrible up in Waimea during peak times
    it could be doable depending on the HSF's schedule to Kawaihae.
    Looking at Superferry's current schedule.

    AR MAUI 9:30 LV MAUI 11:00 (now suspended ) - 90 minutes turnaround

    AR KAUAI 6:00 PM LV KAUAI 7:00 PM - 60 minute turnaround*

    * barring any disruptions

    I would assume that if the Superferry went to Kawaihae the turnaround would be around those 2 times... 90 minutes... hmmmm... you can try... but I would not. 60 minutes.... no way.

    What is there to buy in Kawaihae? Nothing much. I haven't bought anything there in years. The last time was ice cream when Doi Store was around... and that was long ago!
    Last edited by mel; August 27th, 2007 at 06:25 PM. Reason: cut out duplicate word
    I'm still here. Are you?

  25. #125
    kamuelakea Guest

    Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

    Quote Originally Posted by Miulang View Post
    Unfortunately, Kam, DOT did not uphold their part of the agreement with Judge August that all the lane striping would be done before Sunday morning at 9:30 a.m.. Are you telling me you don't obey the law?

    Miulang
    Miulang.

    In my life I broke plenny laws.

    Yes, I don't always obey the law.

    Not beeeg kine. Small kine.

    But still, I wen break um?

    So wot? Problem?

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