This is Haka, err Ha'a Nation

[1stwahine]

Re: [UH Warrior] This is Haka, err Ha'a Nation

If you think so.

OMG!! It's alive!

Auntie Lynn

[Frankie's Market]

Re: [UH Warrior] This is Haka, err Ha'a Nation

OMG!! It's alive!

And kickin!

[Pua'i Mana'o]

Re: [UH Warrior] This is Haka, err Ha'a Nation

If you think so.

the question is, why do I think so?

[Random]

Re: [UH Warrior] This is Haka, err Ha'a Nation

Take the Star Spangled Banner. It is no secret that Francis Scott Key wrote the lyrics to accompany the melody of an old British drinking song. But despite this origin, most Americans still give the Star Spangled Banner the respect and dignity that is befitting of a country's national anthem.

As a footnote: I don't think Francis Scott Key realized he was writing lyrics to our national anthem. It was originally composed as a poem. Somewhere down the line, someone merged the poem with a drinking song (why am I not surprised ) and the rest is US history.

As for the bastardization of a Hawaiian song turned Maori version, the author should be more careful when granting permission to the melody, especially when the melody is accompanied by lyrics which as a body of works can be copyrighted.

DISCLAIMER: I Am Not A Lawyer.

[kiwidiva]

Re: [UH Warrior] This is Haka, err Ha'a Nation

I remember visiting Aotearoa and being shocked when I heard the Māori singing a song in te reo to the tune of a cherished Hawaiian song, Kaulana Nā Pua. KNP is no ordinary song; it is a mele ʻai pohaku, a protest song. Yet the story goes that when one of our Hawaiians visited Aotearoa decades ago, some Māori who heard the tune fell so in love with it that he asked permission to add Māori lyrics to the melody. In fact, by doing so, the Māori bastardized (horrors!) our beloved protest song; the Māori version is about jilted lovers or some such nonsense--nothing to do with the inherent sovereignty and devastation of our poʻe who would rather eat the rocks of our beloved land than succumb to the auspices of another nation.

And the Māori know this Hawaiian connection; they sang it to us at every single marae we stayed at (12 in all).

So Kotiro Maori is set to a Hawaiian tune?

Well, this Maori didn't know the connection. I hope that you voiced your opinion at the time PM - not to disrespect your hosts but to let them know how you felt. I'm willing to bet they might have known the connection (bro, let's sing them this waiata coz it's from a hawaiian tune!) but probably not exactly what the tune represents to you.

Frankie - my mind immediately went to the Star Spangled Banner too! My husband was quite shocked when he went to England for the first time and heard the other (original) version - and there are other songs too that are considered classics here in the States that came from English ditties. Come to think of it, even our own Maori waiata (and not just from back in those times) utilized English tunes.

One of my favorite kapa haka (Maori performing arts) groups never seems to come anywhere with the judges - perhaps because many of their songs are set to Disney & Broadway tunes.

I agree, it isn't right (I doubt that permission has been granted) and the only excuse that I can offer (on behalf of my poor, bastardized people) is that they didn't know that what they were doing would offend anybody.

I know I put here somewhere on this board that I didn't think UH was purposely trying to piss anybody off with their use of the haka. My aim all along has been to raise awareness because I hoped that if they knew better, they would DO better. They have proven that to be the case and I give them props for doing the right thing.

Now that I know, I will never perform Kotiro Maori ever again!

I will practice what I preach and only perform original waiata from now on.

Mahalo for letting me know, PM!

[Random]

Re: [UH Warrior] This is Haka, err Ha'a Nation

Frankie - my mind immediately went to the Star Spangled Banner too! My husband was quite shocked when he went to England for the first time and heard the other (original) version - and there are other songs too that are considered classics here in the States that came from English ditties. Come to think of it, even our own Maori waiata (and not just from back in those times) utilized English tunes.

Another footnote: Our state song Hawai'i Pono i and American patriotic song My Country 'Tis of Thee are based on the melody of the British anthem, God Save the King/Queen.

[Pua'i Mana'o]

Re: [UH Warrior] This is Haka, err Ha'a Nation

So Kotiro Maori is set to a Hawaiian tune?

Well, this Maori didn't know the connection. I hope that you voiced your opinion at the time PM - not to disrespect your hosts but to let them know how you felt. I'm willing to bet they might have known the connection (bro, let's sing them this waiata coz it's from a hawaiian tune!) but probably not exactly what the tune represents to you.

our reactions hovered nearer wistful amusement than being offended. In Wellington we were first told the story of the Māori who loved the tune. By the time we got up towards Waikato, it was tiring (imagine three weeks on the road, marae-hopping). Our attitude was that we were guests in that country, guests of our Polynesian kin, and we kept our mouths shut on the offense.

Frankie - my mind immediately went to the Star Spangled Banner too! My husband was quite shocked when he went to England for the first time and heard the other (original) version - and there are other songs too that are considered classics here in the States that came from English ditties. Come to think of it, even our own Maori waiata (and not just from back in those times) utilized English tunes.

So what do you do about that?

One of my favorite kapa haka (Maori performing arts) groups never seems to come anywhere with the judges - perhaps because many of their songs are set to Disney & Broadway tunes.

I agree, it isn't right (I doubt that permission has been granted) and the only excuse that I can offer (on behalf of my poor, bastardized people) is that they didn't know that what they were doing would offend anybody.

I know I put here somewhere on this board that I didn't think UH was purposely trying to piss anybody off with their use of the haka. My aim all along has been to raise awareness because I hoped that if they knew better, they would DO better. They have proven that to be the case and I give them props for doing the right thing.

Now that I know, I will never perform Kotiro Maori ever again!

I will practice what I preach and only perform original waiata from now on.

Mahalo for letting me know, PM!

he mea nui, a he mea ʻole. Among each of us we can find both the outraged and the bastards. But in reading your posts on this subject wrt the haka, it took until now to find the name of that tune (you try googling it; hah!) Serendipitously a colleague called, and while we were on the phone, I was able to get my answer. Once I plugged the name of your waiata into google, the link showed up.

My greater point is that even the Māori have offended whilst being offended. I've always agreed with your point, but really, what do I do with my Ruia and Rania CDs (Waiata of Bob Marley)? Do we not enjoy taking from others and making it our own? That is a very Hawaiian trait; apparently so it is also amongst Māori.

Perspective, perspective.

aloha, PM

[infinitypro]

Re: [UH Warrior] This is Haka, err Ha'a Nation

Has anyone seen this? (Scroll down to the second to the last paragraph). I didn't hear anything until this article.

Also, the column begins with "Random thoughts from a Random mind." Hmm...any coincidence Random?

[scrivener]

Re: [UH Warrior] This is Haka, err Ha'a Nation

Has anyone seen this?

That's an interesting link.

[infinitypro]

Re: [UH Warrior] This is Haka, err Ha'a Nation

That's an interesting link.

If not for the sarcasm in your tone, I wouldn't have 'double checked it.' I apologize. Let me try this again, here?


Okay so it links to the article, does anyone know why the first didn't?

[Random]

Re: [UH Warrior] This is Haka, err Ha'a Nation

Also, the column begins with "Random thoughts from a Random mind." Hmm...any coincidence Random?

Well, sometimes I wish I was haole and could grow a goatee.

[infinitypro]

Re: [UH Warrior] This is Haka, err Ha'a Nation

Well, sometimes I wish I was haole and could grow a goatee.

Hillarious. So not you, but what a 'random' coincidence!

[Leo Lakio]

Re: [UH Warrior] This is Haka, err Ha'a Nation

As a footnote: I don't think Francis Scott Key realized he was writing lyrics to our national anthem. It was originally composed as a poem. Somewhere down the line, someone merged the poem with a drinking song (why am I not surprised ) and the rest is US history.

"The Anacreontic Song," while it has lyrical references to drinking (Bacchus's vine), was not a "drinking song" per se. It was F.S. Key's brother who recognized that the poem fit the musical structure. It became a popular patriotic song, and was declared to be the national anthem in 1931.

Okay so it links to the article, does anyone know why the first didn't?

Yes. You didn't add the url. (To see the HTML code of your first message, just try to "quote" it - you'll see the problem.)

[kiwidiva]

Re: [UH Warrior] This is Haka, err Ha'a Nation

Ae, PM! Perspective...

The reason you heard that song so much has to be because your hosts knew the "Hawai'i" link - because that song is really mostly sung by East Coast tribes (Rongomaiwahine was their ancestor) and especially Ngati Kahungungu - the descendants of the big brute who cunningly seduced her.

I noticed on the link you provided they go into detail about the story of the song but there's no mention of who wrote it or where the tune came from. You wouldn't hear that song on my marae, because we have no links to either of those 2... but obviously, the connection is known...

So, if you ever see a Maori (or anyone) steal tunes, words AND actions... I hope you WILL grab that rock and spear, bash skulls and toss the Unworthy off the Pali! Figuratively... of course!

[infinitypro]

Re: [UH Warrior] This is Haka, err Ha'a Nation

"The Anacreontic Song," while it has lyrical references to drinking (Bacchus's vine), was not a "drinking song" per se. It was F.S. Key's brother who recognized that the poem fit the musical structure. It became a popular patriotic song, and was declared to be the national anthem in 1931.Yes. You didn't add the url. (To see the HTML code of your first message, just try to "quote" it - you'll see the problem.)

Thanks Leo! Obviously rushing to post!