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Thread: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 6

  1. #51

    Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 6

    Back during the old days, some of us neighbor island students at UH-Manoa shipped our cars between islandsfor the summer and Christmas breaks. The deals then offered by Young Brothers included a "free" return within 30 days, and 50% off between 31-90 days. I took advantage of this once when I shipped my car over to Hilo and then made the return 18 days later. We're not supposed to load any cargo (YB disclaims liability for theft or loss), but that didn't stop a couple of my friends from putting their golf clubs in my trunk. These were NOT pro-level.

    I don't believe that YB offers any such "deals" now. It's "full-fare" all the way!

  2. #52
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    Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 6

    Quote Originally Posted by oceanpacific View Post

    I don't believe that YB offers any such "deals" now. It's "full-fare" all the way!
    That's what we get when we have a monopoly offering a vital service between the islands. Superferry offers us an alternative as a faster service at a cheaper price.

  3. #53
    waioli kai Guest

    Default bi God reactionaries are US in $uperfascUSt Follies

    bi God reactionaries are US in $uperfascUSt Follies
    .
    \quote==mel= " Superferry offers us an alternative as a faster service at a cheaper price." /quote

    Who is "us" ? Your nationalUSt sense of US does not include Hawai`i , a spelling of which a bigot [and there are several such eternal bigots]
    in the forum writes as being the same as the State of Hawaii. Your "us" is little more than yourself and near a half-dozen USers in this thread who apparently know next to nothing about Oahu's neighbor communties, and what they do think they know is all that they think need to know about the people whose rights they are so greedily willing to violate.

    The rights of the inhabitants of Oahu's neighbor islands to choose the pace at which they decide to develop their land and exploit their resources are not inferior to the alleged rights of Oahu residents to travel to those islands packing whatever they choose, staying however long they want, arriving however they choose.


    * bigot 1598, from M.Fr. bigot, from O.Fr., supposedly a derogatory name for Normans, the old theory being that it springs from their frequent use of O.E. oath bi God. Plausible, since the Eng. were known as goddamns in Joan of Arc's France, and during World War I Americans serving in France were said to be known as les sommobiches **.

    **son of a bitch
    1707 as a direct phrase, but implied much earlier.
    "Abide žou žef malicious!
    Biche-sone žou drawest amis
    žou schalt abigge it ywis!" ["Of Arthour & of Merlin," c.1330]

    "Probably the most common American vulgarity from about the middle of the eighteenth century to the middle of the twentieth" [Rawson]. Abbreviated form SOB from 1918. Mencken, complaining of the tepidity of the American vocabulary of profanity, writes that the toned-down form son-of-a-gun "is so lacking in punch that the Italians among us have borrowed it as a satirical name for an American: la sanemagogna is what they call him, and by it they indicate their contempt for his backwardness in the art that is one of their great glories." [The American Language, 4th ed., p.317-8]
    .
    Last edited by waioli kai; September 28th, 2007 at 09:35 PM.

  4. #54
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    Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 6

    i've refrained from posting on this thread because honestly, reading the back and forth about the superferry, whether here or in letters to the editor in the papers, makes my stomach literally heave.

    it feels to me like my neighbors would be happy i not visit their home (which is really OUR home).

    it feels to me like my neighbors feel i live on the wrong side of the tracks, and am sullied by my urban lifestyle, and i'll spread it, like a horrid contagion, across their pristine home (again, which is really OUR home).

    it feels to me that my neighbors believe people who are not from the neighborhood are more welcome. these people who are not from the neighborhood are not only more welcome, but where my neighbors don't want me to visit just for a few days with my car and my camping and my snorkeling gear, they don't seem to mind at all that the people not from the neighborhood buy land/homes in the neighborhood and help change the market so that both my neighbors and i have a hard time affording land/homes in the neighborhood.

    it feels to me that my neighbors think my money is dirty and they don't want my money in their neighborhood. but again, they'll gladly take the money of those not from our neighborhood.



    i'd been saying to eric that for our next vacation, let's go back to maui or the big island...or maybe let's go to kauai, where i haven't been since i was in the single digit ages. hadn't there been public service announcements promoting doing just that? have a vacation here in hawaii? you know--let's go have a vacation in our neighborhood?

    at this point, i'd rather we took our money to the "ninth island." even if that's not our neighborhood.

    at this point, i'm feeling like my neighborhood is so backwards, and my neighbors not acting very neighborly, that it won't take much more before i'd prefer to raise any future children i may have in a completely different neighborhood.
    superbia (pride), avaritia (greed), luxuria (lust), invidia (envy), gula (gluttony), ira (wrath) & acedia (sloth)--the seven deadly sins.

    "when you wake up in the morning, tell yourself: the people i deal with today will be meddling, ungrateful, arrogant, dishonest, jealous, and surly..."--meditations, marcus aurelius (make sure you read the rest of the passage, ya lazy wankers!)

    nothing humiliates like the truth.--me, in conversation w/mixedplatebroker re 3rd party, 2009-11-11, 1213

  5. #55
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    Default Re: bi God reactionaries are US in $uperfascUSt Follies

    Who is "us" ? Your nationalUSt sense of US does not include Hawai`i....(blah, blah, blah snipped)
    Again senseless anti-American rhetoric. Same old, same old crap.

  6. #56
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    Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 6

    Quote Originally Posted by ericncyn View Post
    it feels to me like my neighbors would be happy i not visit their home (which is really OUR home).
    I hear you on that one, and I've written about it before... I'm actually from Maui, but I'm damned to go to any "neighbor island" (and I use that loosely, as loose as a bad bowel) since I now live in the hell-hole known as "Oahu."

    I'm now damned to hell, and will die a slow and painful death, because I live in Honolulu.

    Pray for me.

  7. #57
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    Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 6

    I must be part of the "Evil Empire" even though I am originally from the Big Island.

    God Bless America!

  8. #58

    Default Re: bi God reactionaries are US in $uperfascUSt Follies

    Quote Originally Posted by mel View Post
    Again senseless anti-American rhetoric. Same old, same old crap.
    W's irrelevant ranting has reduced his credibility to ZERO ..........

  9. #59
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    Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 6

    Quote Originally Posted by ericncyn View Post
    i'd been saying to eric that for our next vacation, let's go back to maui or the big island...or maybe let's go to kauai, where i haven't been since i was in the single digit ages. hadn't there been public service announcements promoting doing just that? have a vacation here in hawaii? you know--let's go have a vacation in our neighborhood?
    I highly recommend the Big Island! No moa attitudes. They neva even know we were from Oahu. We loved every day we were there. Relaxing. Respect and you get respected.

    As foa Kauai and Maui. My Roots goes far. Both my maternal and paternal sides. In fact, my great grandparents migrated from Puerto Rico to work in the plantations on Kauai. So did my paternal grandparents. Koloa, Omao, Poipu, Hailimaile Rd., Makawao is where I spent many summer vacations. I went to Koloa Elementary for a bit too. I have relatives on all islands.

    When the day comes foa me to visit again...and "if" I be disrespected in anyway, be rest assured my grand parents will rise in me.

    I am a Gaitano!
    http://www.auntiepupule.com/blog/index.php?id=1131

    HAHAHAHAHAH

    Auntie Lynn
    Last edited by 1stwahine; September 29th, 2007 at 08:07 AM.
    Be AKAMAI ~ KOKUA Hawai`i!
    Philippians 4:13 --- I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.

  10. #60
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    Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 6

    I never did weigh in on this, so I guess I'll post now before this thread, too, is closed.

    -------------------------------------------

    It’s sad that so many people seem determined to miss (or reject altogether) the points made by opponents of Hawaii’s Superferry, and I have yet to see a clear articulation of neighbor island sentiments depicted in the media. Instead, I see politicians speaking in soundbytes (using what political hacks call speaking “bullets”) attempting to spin the issue and further their own agenda, while mainstream media outlets stumble around trying to find some trendy angle to put on the story in order to reach a larger audience.

    This is not a rejection of tourism or tourists, nor is it solely an environmental issue as many have made it out to be. Talk to most people on those islands and you begin to discover that this is mainly an issue of small communities facing a major change that will bring drugs, theft and gridlock while they are left with little or no means to deal with it.

    People traveling by air face stringent security measures at the airport, but with less than an hour to properly secure hundreds of cars, it would be impossible to intercept shipments of “ice” stashed in a vehicle and transported to off island communities by the Superferry. Moreover, the law enforcement and legal services in those communities are not equipped to deal with the increase in drugs and drug crime that they will encounter.

    While copper theft is rampant on Oahu, and new measures passed to prosecute copper thieves, what is to prevent copper thieves from going off island and coming back with a load of stolen copper from one of the neighbor islands, and what kinds of legal/jurisdictional hurdles are neighbor island residents going to face when it comes time to prosecute the thieves?

    This is not like porting a cruise ship because passengers on cruise ships usually only stay for a day and rent vehicles on-island instead of importing an off-island car that could easily, albeit unintentionally, import a harmful pest.

    And it is not that neighbor island residents are rejecting people from the outer islands. They are simply unwilling to allow themselves to become overwhelmed by the many of challenges that the Superferry will inevitably bring. On these issues they are inadequately prepared, and to my knowledge, largely unsupported (if not entirely ignored) by the State, and they know it.

    That is the REAL reason they are rejecting the Hawaii Superferry.

    This is not a rejection of encroaching development because, with the Superferry there is no encroaching development, only transients and their vehicles being brought in to occupy small residential communities. If the state is going to allow such influx into small local communities, then I can see no reason it should stand opposed to widespread deregulation of Hawaii’s vacation rental industry where out-of-town visitors also occupy residential communities, only they are not just from out-of-town, they are also from out-of-state. Same difference!

    To put it into better perspective, consider how people on Oahu would react if the Federal Government required Oahu to open its ports to seven massive ships from California, each carrying 1500 people, AND their cars (the numeric equivalent of what Kauai residents are facing). That would mean over 5,000 more people on Oahu roadways.

    If, like the Superferry, there was only a short window of less than an hour in which to secure and load all of those mainland vehicles, I’m sure Hawaii lawmakers would find ample reason to raise concern, and you can bet that they would have their own list of objections they would want heard. There would be vociferous protests as long-winded legislators adopt a over exuberant posture self-righteous indignation in an attempt to inflate their own importance. Yet; for all of this, the Lingle administration intends to subject neighbor island residents to exactly this type of thing.

    So while politicians and department bureaucrats busy themselves trying to spin a story to fit their own agenda, it is unfortunate that the mainstream media can only seem to find some lopsided (environmental or economic development type) angle to put on it, while the more salient points of concern raised by those who stand to be most impacted by the Superferry remain largely ignored.

  11. #61
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    Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 6

    From what I have been reading from the SuperFerry web site they suggest that you arrive early because 30 minutes before departure time they won't allow latecomers on.

    Granted they should have said to arrive 2 to 3 hours before departure time.

    Sure they have to load the ferry within 30 to 40 minutes but they would have check the cars before then.

  12. #62
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    Thumbs down Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 6

    Quote Originally Posted by woodman View Post
    this is mainly an issue of small communities facing a major change that will bring drugs, theft and gridlock while they are left with little or no means to deal with it.
    So you're saying that those small communities had no drugs, theft and gridlock before the SuperFerry? I'll need to see proof of that, as I don't believe the claim for one minute.
    And you're also saying that all or most O`ahu residents are druggies, thieves and rude drivers, but the neighbor islands have none of that now?
    What intelligent person would believe any of that nonsense?!?
    .
    .

    That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

  13. #63
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    Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 6

    Quote Originally Posted by LikaNui View Post
    And you're also saying that all or most O`ahu residents are druggies, thieves and rude drivers, but the neighbor islands have none of that now?
    What intelligent person would believe any of that nonsense?!?
    That is not what I am saying at all.

    Once again a superferry supporter has taken a tangent departure from the topic; attempting to use peripheral elements of the discussion and deliberately misrepresenting them to make an absurd statement.

    Again, you missed the point.

    My entire post was about how people like you keep missing the point.

    If you're going to imply that I'm spewing unintelligent nonsense, then you might actually lend yourself more credibility if you could just stay focused on the topic instead of trying to manipulate opinions by misrepresenting my statements.

    No Superferry supporters will address the fact that theft began the first day of operation, and if they do they can only seem to downplay the incident instead of attempting to find definitive resolution to the problem.

    No Superferry supporter will acknowlege that if Oahu residents were put into a similar situation and suddenly forced to accept large numbers of visitors from outside of their community, there would be widespread outrage.

    No Superferry supporters can justify the same ratio of increased vehicles on Oahu roadways, and I doubt any would tolerate it.

    No Superferry supporters have dared to address the link between local communities on the outer islands being over run with off-island residents brought by the Superferry, and the State's increased regulation of vacation rental units in neighborhoods (mostly on Oahu) that have been over run by non-resident visitors. The double standard, here, sticks out like a sore thumb.

  14. #64

    Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 6

    I speak on the behalf of myself and my household. We support the Superferry as another option to travel within our State for any purpose we may choose. We will abide the laws at our destination, as we do in our every day lives.

    To address WOODMAN's allegations about Superferry supporters:

    1. I do not know of any theft occuring on the first day of operations, therefore please don't generalize and say that as a supporter I will not acknowledge something I know nothing about. If this crime did occur, then the proper authorities should follow-up on this. Do I continue to support the Superferry despite the allegation of theft? Yes, the same way I continue to be a loyal patron to Hawaiian Airlines and continue to support the TSA despite the reports of employees being convicted of theft. It's certain individuals, not the company-at-large.

    2. If Oahu were to be put in a similar situation as the neighbor islands regarding the transportation of passengers with their vehicles, OH WAIT aren't we already with the return voyage?

    3. Traffic is a problem on Oahu, however I don't make it my problem. Will I tolerate additional vehicles on the roadways of Oahu? I already do.

    4. In your last point, you declare that no supporter of the Superferry will address the link between the local communities on the outer islands being over run by the off-island residents brought by the Superferry...how can we, the Superferry has yet to make a successful voyage?

    I don't support illegal drugs in any neighborhood.

    I don't support copper theft in any neighborhood.

    But mostly, I don't support disrespect. And, I feel that the behavior the protestors were disrespectful, specifically on Kauai.

    The reasons listed for the opposition of the Superferry frustrates this support since I don't intend to contribute to any illegal activities here or elsewhere.
    ___
    "Be god to each other."


  15. #65
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    Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 6

    Quote Originally Posted by woodman View Post
    That is not what I am saying at all.
    But I quoted your exact words.

    Once again a superferry supporter has taken a tangent departure from the topic; attempting to use peripheral elements of the discussion and deliberately misrepresenting them to make an absurd statement.
    But I quoted your exact words.
    And most of us feel that the ANTI-SuperFerry group are the ones who go off on tangents.

    Again, you missed the point.
    There is no point to the anti's claims of drugs and thieves. It's just a desperation move in a pathetic attempt to obfuscate the real issues.

    My entire post was about how people like you keep missing the point.
    People like me simply point out faulty claims. None of the anti's have yet to come close to providing intelligent reasons for me to switch my position. I'm very strongly anti-overdevelopment of any of our islands, but the SuperFerry will not contribute to overdevelopment and instead will provide a huge variety of benefits.

    If you're going to imply that I'm spewing unintelligent nonsense, then you might actually lend yourself more credibility if you could just stay focused on the topic instead of trying to manipulate opinions by misrepresenting my statements.
    For the third time... I quoted your exact words.

    No Superferry supporters will address the fact that theft began the first day of operation, and if they do they can only seem to downplay the incident instead of attempting to find definitive resolution to the problem.
    So nobody from Maui ever stole any of those rocks? And who's to say that the SuperFerry inspection wouldn't have caught it once the truck had a pre-boarding inspection? (Remember, it was still in the parking lot, as the SuperFerry had been halted.)
    You also mentioned copper thefts in your earlier post. It's very obvious that a truckload of copper scrap would raise a red flag during pre-boarding inspection too.
    The anti's are condemning the SuperFerry for things that haven't happened. That's just plain silly.

    No Superferry supporter will acknowlege that if Oahu residents were put into a similar situation and suddenly forced to accept large numbers of visitors from outside of their community, there would be widespread outrage.
    We get "large numbers of outside visitors" every single day. More than all the neighbor islands combined. We deal with it.

    No Superferry supporters have dared to address the link between local communities on the outer islands being over run with off-island residents brought by the Superferry, and the State's increased regulation of vacation rental units (...) The double standard, here, sticks out like a sore thumb.
    Apples and oranges. There's a separate thread about vacation rentals.
    Most anti's admit that O`ahu residents will be staying with family on the neighbor islands.

    Feel free to keep trying, though.
    .
    .

    That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

  16. #66
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    Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 6

    Quote Originally Posted by woodman View Post
    No Superferry supporter will acknowlege that if Oahu residents were put into a similar situation and suddenly forced to accept large numbers of visitors from outside of their community, there would be widespread outrage.
    Huh? ???

    http://starbulletin.com/2007/02/28/news/story01.html

    What about all those guys??? Don't they count? They've been invading for a long time, now! And they invade you guys, too. How come no protesters running their skateboard down the runway at the airport trying to block all the planes?

    Sorry, your argument is not very convincing. Hella lot fewer of us "neighbor" guys goin' visit on the boat than the ones who come in on the planes. The "invasion of the Honoluluans" story just doesn't wash when compared with all the other invaders coming in by other means.

    As Brother Noland said so well, "Are you native? Na na na na na na na na, NATIVE!"
    Make trouble, have fun, do good stuffs.

  17. #67

    Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 6

    I don't quite understand how Greg Kaufman can be an expert witness both for the plaintiffs and defendants on Maui, but he is. And he's been pretty consistent about stating that HSF, because of its size and speed, will result in whale strikes that result in the death of the whale. There have been other whale strikes in the waters off Maui, he said, but most of those "strikes" have been because the whales bumped into the boats and not the boats bumping into the whales.

    It'll be interesting to hear how the HSF's other whale expert refutes Kaufman's testimony next week.

    Miulang
    "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

  18. #68
    craig foo Guest

    Default

    mel says: "I must be part of the 'Evil Empire' even though I am originally from the Big Island."

    The pro-Superferry contingent wants and tries to make this whole water ferry issue into a case of discrimination against Oahu citizens in an effort to gloss over the very heartfelt and serious concerns of County of Honolulu's neighbor islanders. Many of the latter consistently express that they do favor some kind of ferry connection between the islands, they just don't favor a Superferry connection.

    For Superferry ideologues and their apologists, it's all about The Superferries' alleged blessings to all inhabitants of the islands.

    oceanpacific says: " (When shipping vehicles by Young Brothers one is) not supposed to load any cargo (in the vehicle), but that didn't stop a couple of my friends from putting their golf clubs in my trunk. "

    That's quite a revelation from one in the crowd of Superferry supporters who claim that security will be sufficient for Superferry operations to prohibit the transport of illicit goods.

    InfinityProductions says: " I do not know of any theft occuring on the first day of operations..."

    You don't know about the three Oahu truck loads of rocks stolen from Maui's I'o stream that were intercepted by State officials, not Superferry officials, prior to their boarding Superferry destined for Oahu? You don't know about the alleged thief who came over to Kauai on Superferry and was arrested a fter he had burlarized three homes? The first commercial (if free to $5 trips can be considered commercial!) trips to each island...some inauguration!
    ++-
    InfinityProductions says: "If Oahu were to be put in a similar situation as the neighbor islands regarding the transportation of passengers with their vehicles..."

    Then I.P. doesn't answer the supposition he presented, very much as no Superferry supporters answered that supposition when it was posed them last week in this thread concerning Superferry service to Los Angeles which, in terms of population, is as Honolulu is to Kauai: about 15 times of one to the other. That is what Woodman meant by "similar situation",,,,and as with most all Superferry-supporter dialogue, I.P. reduces logic to absurdity.
    +++-
    InfinityProductions says: "But mostly, I don't support disrespect. And, I feel that the behavior the protestors were disrespectful, specifically on Kauai."

    Certainly neither the State nor Superferry are doing anything disrespectful toward Kauai citizens are they?? Tyranny by the majority
    ++++-
    InfinityProductions says: "The reasons listed for the opposition of the Superferry frustrates this support since I don't intend to contribute to any illegal activities here or elsewhere."

    So, should the Hawaii Supreme Court rule that this whole Superferry process being crammed down the throats of Oahu's neighbor islanders is either not legal or not in accordance with the intention of the law, then you would side with the Superferry opposition?

    InfinityProductions says: " I do not know of any theft occuring on the first day of operations..."

    You don't know about the three Oahu truck loads of rocks stolen from Maui's I'o stream that were intercepted by State officials, not Superferry officials, prior to their boarding Superferry destined for Oahu? You don't know about the alleged thief who came over to Kauai on Superferry and was arrested a fter he had burlarized three homes? The first commercial (if free to $5 trips can be considered commercial!) trips to each island...some inauguration!
    ++++
    InfinityProductions says: "If Oahu were to be put in a similar situation as the neighbor islands regarding the transportation of passengers with their vehicles..."

    Then I.P. doesn't answer the supposition he presented, very much as no Superferry supporters answered that supposition when it was posed them last week in this thread concerning Superferry service to Los Angeles which, in terms of population, is as Honolulu is to Kauai: about 15 times of one to the other. That is what Woodman meant by "similar situation",,,,and as with most all Superferry-supporter dialogue, I.P. reduces logic to absurdity.

    InfinityProductions says: "But mostly, I don't support disrespect. And, I feel that the behavior the protestors were disrespectful, specifically on Kauai."

    Certainly neither the State nor Superferry doing anything disrespectful toward Kauai citizens is there? ?

    InfinityProductions says: "The reasons listed for the opposition of the Superferry frustrates this support since I don't intend to contribute to any illegal activities here or elsewhere." So, should the Hawaii Supreme Court rule that this whole Superferry process being crammed down the throats of Oahu's neighbor islanders is either not legal or not in accordance with the intention of the law, then you would side with the Superferry opposition?

  19. #69
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    Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 6

    I think I'll avoid visiting Kauai from now on and stick to visiting the other islands.It seems you people there don't want any outsiders visiting. Which is fine with
    me, I don't want to visit a place where people act like children and slash peoples tires.
    Check out my blog on Kona issues :
    The Kona Blog

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    Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 6

    Quote Originally Posted by craig foo View Post

    The pro-Superferry contingent wants and tries to make this whole water ferry issue into a case of discrimination against Oahu citizens ..... (blah blah blahs cut)
    All Oahu people are evil.

  21. #71

    Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 6

    Quote Originally Posted by craig foo View Post
    The pro-Superferry contingent wants and tries to make this whole water ferry issue into a case of discrimination against Oahu citizens in an effort to gloss over the very heartfelt and serious concerns of County of Honolulu's neighbor islanders.
    No, this was started by anti-ferry protesters. Repeatedly, the argument was Oahu will bring over their drugs and their empty pockets and cruising the neighborhoods. Then they may or may not return to Oahu. Check out post #26, oh wait, you said that yourself.....

  22. #72

    Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 6

    Check out the HSF website. No firm date yet for resumption of sailing to Kaua'i, but they expect to be sailing again to Maui on Tuesday, Oct. 9 (reservations for 1 person + car RT HNL-Kahului < $300 assuming the surcharge doesn't change).

    Miulang
    Last edited by Miulang; September 29th, 2007 at 08:08 PM.
    "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

  23. #73
    craig foo Guest

    Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 6

    Quote Originally Posted by joshuatree
    No, this was started by anti-ferry protesters. Repeatedly, the argument was Oahu will bring over their drugs and their empty pockets and cruising the neighborhoods...you said that yourself.....
    Yes, in the context of "passengers and their possessions which the Superferry ensures will arrive to Oahu's neighbor islands by the thousands weekly."

    Anti ferry protesters? Really? Who are anti ferry protestors? Aren't you an anti ferry protester? Aren't you against ferry protesters? How does your being an anti-ferry protester compare with being a pro-ferry protester?
    Last edited by craig foo; September 29th, 2007 at 08:59 PM. Reason: remove extra words

  24. #74
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    Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 6

    Quote Originally Posted by LikaNui View Post

    ... I quoted your exact words.
    WRONG!!!

    You made two absurd statements and attempted to pose them as suggestive questions.
    So, let me quote YOUR “exact words” back to you:

    Quote Originally Posted by LikaNui View Post
    So you're saying that those small communities had no drugs, theft and gridlock before the SuperFerry?

    ...And you're also saying that all or most O`ahu residents are druggies, thieves and rude drivers, but the neighbor islands have none of that now?
    What intelligent person would believe any of that nonsense?!?
    Again, that is NOT what I’m saying, at all.

    This is a cheap tactic that attempts to manipulate opinion on an issue by misrepresenting the views of others.

    It’s kind of a “panty-boy” trick because it allows the person doing it to say “I never made that a statement, I was just asking a question,”.

    The people who resort to it are usually too chicken to make it an outright statement, because they know that they will be challenged if they do, so they resort to the tactic of making a suggestive question.

    This goes a long way to indicate kind of sincerity that people bring to the discussion, and it is a good indicator of how credible they are in terms of earnestly presenting facts with the intent of offering ideas to find genuine resolution.

    Quote Originally Posted by LikaNui View Post

    ... And most of us feel that the ANTI-SuperFerry group are the ones who go off on tangents.
    That’s funny.

    I have yet to see anyone in the “ANTI-SuperFerry group” extrapolate some dramatically exaggerated perspective out of peripheral issues raised during discussion, then pose them as absurd comments disguised as questions.

    Quote Originally Posted by LikaNui View Post
    There is no point to the anti's claims of drugs and thieves. It's just a desperation move in a pathetic attempt to obfuscate the real issues.

    People like me simply point out faulty claims.
    I think it is abundantly apparent that there are, indeed, individuals who are determined to obfuscate the issue.

    It is unfortunate that I should even have to mention this, but raising points of disagreement does not equate to “pointing out faulty claims”.
    Last edited by woodman; September 29th, 2007 at 08:26 PM.

  25. #75
    Join Date
    May 2004
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    Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 6

    Quote Originally Posted by woodman View Post
    I think it is abundantly apparent that there are, indeed, individuals who are determined to obfuscate the issue.
    Yes, but if you try to be more precise in your comments and use less generalizations and oversimplifications, you'll be less likely to be acused of obfuscationism.
    You're new here. You'll learn.
    Care to try again?
    .
    .

    That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

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