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Thread: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 6

  1. #151

    Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 6

    Quote Originally Posted by joshuatree View Post
    So why the big stink about not letting the EA and HSF service run concurrently? What no one knows right now is what the actual traffic patterns will be with HSF docking. Maybe that bank or restaurant or fabric store will get more business? Usually, businesses want traffic, that helps with their bottom line. If an EA and HSF service is run concurrently and issues develop, HSF service can always be suspended much like what we see now. So why the win-only-if-it-suits me mentality that we see now?
    The fabric store lost all of its parking space to YB when the State purchased the additional land (they are in the Old Kahului Store Bldg., which is a historical landmark). The bank is one of the busiest branches on the island, and without the cops there to direct traffic, there will probably be physical altercations as peoples' patience runs thin on both sides.

    And I seriously doubt HSF will stop and then start up again just for a mitigation.

    Miulang
    "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like. --Mark Twain

  2. #152
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    Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 6

    I've been trying -- really trying -- to let some things just go by. But...
    Regarding the Kauai farmers, CraigFoo needs to remember the Maui situation. Not only were Maui farmers on the SuperFerry's advisory panel, their cooperative fully endorsed the SuperFerry as being a boon for their business. Why would Kauai be any different from Maui in that regard?
    Regarding the impact on the Maui fabric store and restaurant and bank, JT is correct in predicting they'll get more business rather than less. If they had any marketing sense at all, they'd work a promotion with SuperFerry to offer discounts to SuperrFerry passengers. Ka-$HING!
    And lastly...

    Quote Originally Posted by Miulang View Post
    there will probably be physical altercations as peoples' patience runs thin on both sides.
    And that guess predicting violence is based on what evidence, exactly?

    I seriously doubt HSF will stop and then start up again just for a mitigation.
    *sigh*
    .
    .

    That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

  3. #153
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    Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 6

    Quote Originally Posted by woodman View Post
    they're not bringing their cars. They are using vehicles that are already on the road and operated by renal car compaies.
    I could be wrong in my impression and assumptions here but the amount of people traveling via the SuperFerry is going to "add" to the amount of people who come to an island location verus "instead off" coming to an island location. This is couse assuming the number of airline flights don't decrease once the SuperFerry is in operation.

    Also keep in mind that the amount of passengers that the SuperFerry carries is around 866 people, that's about roughly about 4 to 5 planeloads worth of people (appologizes in advance for biasing towards Aloha Airlines). The rental car companies would have to increase their fleet to accomadate this increase of passengers (this is assuming that the SuperFerry was a passenger-only service). For sure this is going to permanently add to the amount of cars on an island location. Where as cars being shipped via the SuperFerry would be temporary added to the amount of cars on an island location.

    Quote Originally Posted by Miulang View Post
    But the businesses being impacted by HSF at Kahului and Nawiliwili harbors are not in the same business as HSF and don't compete with each other anyway: on Maui, there's a bank, a fabric store, a trendy fashion store for young women and a restaurant. In Nawiliwili harbor, it's the Kauai Food Bank, Hesse Flooring and Island Liquidators.
    I don't know about the Maui places but the Kauai places got affected because of the security restrictions that was put in place after the events that happened on Kauai. I just hope the security restrictions is a temporary thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by LikaNui View Post
    Regarding the Kauai farmers, CraigFoo needs to remember the Maui situation. Not only were Maui farmers on the SuperFerry's advisory panel, their cooperative fully endorsed the SuperFerry as being a boon for their business. Why would Kauai be any different from Maui in that regard?
    Were there any Kauai farmers on the advisory panel? In any event if none of the Kauai based farmers don't want to use the services of the SuperFerry that's fine too.

  4. #154

    Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 6

    Quote Originally Posted by helen View Post
    I don't know about the Maui places but the Kauai places got affected because of the security restrictions that was put in place after the events that happened on Kauai. I just hope the security restrictions is a temporary thing.
    The bank's business is adversely impacted because the egress for HSF shares the same roadway as the parking lot for the bank. Hence the Judge's order (had HSF been allowed to resume service) that off duty policemen be hired to direct traffic at that corner. When the anti-HSF people tried to do a demo with 100 cars prior to the first voyage, there were some fender benders and heated words exchanged between bank customers and "HSF" customers...and these were their neighbors, not visitors. When HSF starts up again, there is also a "mitigation" requiring that traffic from HSF be limited to 3 cars per light cycle on Kaahumanu, so do the math: if each light cycle is 3 minutes long and only 3 cars per cycle are allowed to merge into the main stream of traffic, how long will the 180th vehicle in line on the ferry dock have to wait to actually merge onto Kaahumanu?

    The businesses in the Old Kahului Store Bldg are impacted because their parking lot got sold to the State to provide land for YB (an EA was done for this project). Any potential customers now have to park on the north side of the building in a space about 1/3 the size of the original lot. Both the bank building and the Old Kahului Store (as is the old Kahului RR building next door) are historical landmarks and can't be torn down.

    The Coast Guard says that the impacted businesses in Nawiliwili harbor can ask for exemptions, but it sounds like they would have to call the CG every time a customer wanted to get to the stores, so that is a major hassle for the businesses and some customers would just rather avoid the whole security zone checking hassle.

    Miulang
    "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like. --Mark Twain

  5. #155
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    Lightbulb Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 6

    Quote Originally Posted by Miulang View Post
    The bank's business is adversely impacted because the egress for HSF shares the same roadway as the parking lot for the bank.
    If... IF it was bad as you predict, I have to wonder why that bank's customers wouldn't have the basic innate intelligence to NOT GO TO THE BANK DURING THAT HOUR?!??
    Somebody remind me -- is common sense illegal on Maui?
    .
    .

    That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

  6. #156

    Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 6

    It might be in Seattle, though!

    It must be a powerful set of binoculars to make the call from 3000 miles away as to what's good for us folks here in the middle of the Pacific .............

  7. #157

    Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 6

    Quote Originally Posted by oceanpacific View Post
    It might be in Seattle, though!

    It must be a powerful set of binoculars to make the call from 3000 miles away as to what's good for us folks here in the middle of the Pacific .............
    And where do YOU live? On Maui? Are you one of the bank's many business customers who use that branch to make deposits and pick up cash in the middle of the day so you can run your business?
    "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like. --Mark Twain

  8. #158

    Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 6

    Quote Originally Posted by Miulang View Post
    And where do YOU live? On Maui? Are you one of the bank's many business customers who use that branch to make deposits and pick up cash in the middle of the day so you can run your business?
    I'll be living on Maui again soon, hopefully I can give an objective analysis of this bank that will be impacted. Is it the Central Pacific Bank, since it's the nearest branch?
    ___
    "Be god to each other."


  9. #159

    Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 6

    Quote Originally Posted by InfinityProductions View Post
    I'll be living on Maui again soon, hopefully I can give an objective analysis of this bank that will be impacted. Is it the Central Pacific Bank, since it's the nearest branch?
    No, it's the big guy...Bank of Hawaii.

    Miulang
    "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like. --Mark Twain

  10. #160

    Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 6

    Hey, MiuLAME. Your incessant BRAYING betrays you.

    FYI, I live on Oahu, but originally came from the Big Island of Hawaii. You would have known that IF you really paid attention to other threads both of us have participated on.

    I'm more qualified than you on these local matters. By far .............

  11. #161
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    Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 6

    uh Miulang - weren't you born/raised on Maui (or something like that)?? I seem to recall hearing about your family on Maui when you were here last year. Just curious - you don't have to answer me here.

  12. #162

    Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 6

    Quote Originally Posted by anapuni808 View Post
    uh Miulang - weren't you born/raised on Maui (or something like that)?? I seem to recall hearing about your family on Maui when you were here last year. Just curious - you don't have to answer me here.
    I was born in Kapiolani Hospital and moved to Maui at the age of 2. My maternal grandparents were born and raised on Maui. My grandpa worked for the Territory of Hawaii road dept. as a civil engineer and built many of the roads on Maui, Lanai and Moloka'i. My dad was a postmaster on Maui. So yes, I have Maui roots.

    Miulang
    "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like. --Mark Twain

  13. #163
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    Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 6

    so, sounds to me like you are qualified to talk about Maui issues even though you currently live in Seattle. Thanks for clarifying for me.

  14. #164
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    Question Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 6

    Quote Originally Posted by Miulang View Post
    I was born in Kapiolani Hospital and moved to Maui at the age of 2.
    But the real value would be in knowing when you moved away from Maui. I seem to recall you talking about being very young and going to school on the mainland, and then all those different jobs and cities you lived in on the mainland, and still do.
    Now, assuming Miulang truly does have me on Ignore, someone please quote the paragraph above or ask her yourself, whatever. The answer to how old she was when she moved away will either establish her credibility (and end a lot of abuse) or, well, you know.
    .
    .

    That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

  15. #165

    Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 6

    Quote Originally Posted by Miulang View Post
    No, it's the big guy...Bank of Hawaii.

    Miulang
    Thank you. I want to get the true perspective of those on Maui, hopefully time permitting and share objectively.
    ___
    "Be god to each other."


  16. #166
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    Exclamation Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 6

    WHOA. I just turned on KITV news and caught the middle of a story. An executive of our Dept. Of Agriculture (I think it was) was talking about the extremely extensive precautions (including inspecting each vehicle's engine compartment and trunk, etc.) the SuperFerry is taking to avoid people taking stolen goods or transporting invasive species, etc. She said the SuperFerry had waaaay "raised the bar" for all other shippers and airlines to have to meet. The story then interviewed an executive from Young Brothers who whined about having to meet all those stringent requirements.
    So... which company needs an EIS now?
    Gosh, I'll just bet those Kauai protesters will be out there blocking every Young Brothers barge.
    .
    .

    That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

  17. #167

    Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 6

    Have they ever protested Young Brothers bringing cars to Kauai, new, used, or those owned by "invasive species?"

  18. #168
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    Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 6

    Quote Originally Posted by oceanpacific View Post
    Have they ever protested Young Brothers bringing cars to Kauai, new, used, or those owned by "invasive species?"
    Of course not. YB doesn't cause problems. Neither does Matson or NCL or Hawaiian or Aloha or go! et al. All those companies are perfect stewards of the environment! Only the SuperFerry causes problems.
    According to the protesters.
    .
    .

    That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

  19. #169

    Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 6

    Quote Originally Posted by LikaNui View Post
    WHOA. I just turned on KITV news and caught the middle of a story. An executive of our Dept. Of Agriculture (I think it was) was talking about the extremely extensive precautions (including inspecting each vehicle's engine compartment and trunk, etc.) the SuperFerry is taking to avoid people taking stolen goods or transporting invasive species, etc. She said the SuperFerry had waaaay "raised the bar" for all other shippers and airlines to have to meet. The story then interviewed an executive from Young Brothers who whined about having to meet all those stringent requirements.
    So... which company needs an EIS now?
    Gosh, I'll just bet those Kauai protesters will be out there blocking every Young Brothers barge.
    Anxious to read the oppositions' defense of this news report, although I predict that perhaps their "truths" will come out and admit that most are either just protesting 'cause there's nothing better to do OR are hiding behind the EIS and are just prejudice.
    ___
    "Be god to each other."


  20. #170

    Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 6

    Quote Originally Posted by InfinityProductions View Post
    Anxious to read the oppositions' defense of this news report, although I predict that perhaps their "truths" will come out and admit that most are either just protesting 'cause there's nothing better to do OR are hiding behind the EIS and are just prejudice.
    The invasive species lady testified that visual inspection of the undercarriages of cars (all they are required to inspect are wheel wells) would not be sufficient to prevent detection of miconia seeds from being carried aboard HSF. Miconia is something that has overgrown the Big Island and Maui, but so far has not affected Oahu or Kauai to the same extent yet, and the DoA would like to keep it that way. She suggested that it was possible to mitigate the risk by requiring the undercarriages of all cars to be power washed (something that is not required right now) prior to boarding and she said the US Forestry Service was using a portable undercarriage power washer for the purpose of decontaminating the undercarriages of its vehicles on CONUS. When asked how Forestry people decontaminate their trucks today on Maui after they have gone into miconia-infested areas, she says their undercarriages are power washed at a facility in Makawao at least once a week, whether or not they have gone into the forests or not. She said the other risk was used fishing nets (because of dried limu), so if no one was allowed to bring nets aboard the boat, the threat to local limu beds would be removed.

    She said she has also made the same recommendations to YB for shipping cars (not new cars).

    BTW: on the surface, it does appear that the rules for HSF are more stringent than what is required for other transporations modes, but there have been anecdotal reports from people who took their cars aboard HSF that the HSF staff are not doing extensive searches, just cursory ones because of the short turnaround times for boarding and making the return voyage. Also, although they are supposed to have been trained by DNLR and DoA staff on what to look for, the lady who testified for the DoA said it was the department's responsibility---not the HSF staff's responsibility---to examine any plants that might be brought aboard the ferry.

    I'm not sure if that new car wash that's near the ferry terminal in Kahului (down by Hobron St.) washes undercarriages or not; I know they are a "green" business. But if every undercarriage has to be washed prior to boarding, then that could slow down the boarding process unless the cars are powerwashed away from the boarding area and then the drivers have to provide proof that the undercarriages had been washed just prior to boarding.

    Today's testimony was from the HSF whale expert, and he wasn't as prepared to testify compared to Greg Kaufman of the Pacific Whale Foundation. He didn't have all of his evidence readily available and sometimes couldn't quote the sources of his testimony. He is scheduled to return to the witness chair tomorrow morning. After him, I believe there is only John Garibaldi left to testify before the Judge takes the case under consideration and makes his decision.

    Miulang
    "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like. --Mark Twain

  21. #171
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    Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 6

    GOOD GRIEF. Infinity's reponse was about an item from a NEWS PROGRAM that aired tonight HERE IN HAWAII... it was NOT about the trial!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Miulang View Post
    The invasive species lady testified that
    Infinity and I weren't talking about anyone's testimony. It was a news report from the Dept. of Agriculture where they praised the SuperFerry. Oh. Wait. Now I see why you changed the subject.

    there have been anecdotal reports from people who took their cars aboard HSF that the HSF staff are not doing extensive searches
    Ah yes. "Anecdotal reports." More commonly known as UNSUBSTANTIATED RUMORS.

    I'm not sure if (...) But if every undercarriage (...) that could slow down (...) unless the cars are (...) I believe there is
    And all in answering the wrong question.
    *sigh*
    .
    .

    That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

  22. #172

    Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 6

    Is the whole undercarriage issue really that difficult to resolve? The way I see it, all they need is a few car washers like they have at Enterprise or any other car rental places on the HSF. They can simply power wash the undercarriages of the vehicles while the ship is in transit. All the water run off simply goes off the deck. Or does that require an EIS too?

  23. #173

    Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 6

    Quote Originally Posted by joshuatree View Post
    Is the whole undercarriage issue really that difficult to resolve? The way I see it, all they need is a few car washers like they have at Enterprise or any other car rental places on the HSF. They can simply power wash the undercarriages of the vehicles while the ship is in transit. All the water run off simply goes off the deck. Or does that require an EIS too?
    No, it seems like a pretty simple fix to me, too. The main problem is what to do with the water from the undercarriages since it will be contaminated (can't just let it flow overboard). I think the idea is to clean the cars before they get on the boat. But the invasive species lady didn't sound like this issue would necessarily prevent HSF from sailing if the mitigations were done.

    That invasive species expert also said to make it really simple for the DoA and HSF staff regarding invasive plants, that if all plants in dirt were prohibited from being brought aboard (so that there would be no question about whether it had been inspected by the DoA or not--she mentioned specifically banana plants, for some reason, and I suspect papaya plants would be in the same category) and the same procedure was followed with used fishing nets, it really wasn't going to be very much of a problem with HSF operating. A representative from DNLR did testify, and he was called specifically by Hall because of the rock incident but the judge ruled that he couldn't talk about the rocks, so his testimony was rather limited. I think I read somewhere that HSF passengers aren't allowed to bring dirt, sand or rocks aboard as cargo. Whether there are DNLR inspectors assigned to check for this, I don't know. The only reason why the rocks were found at the ferry dock is that DNLR got an anonymous tip that three trucks were stranded at Kahului Harbor with a bunch of rocks on them. The story goes that a DNLR person had come upon the guys loading up the trucks earlier in the Paukukalo area (about 5 minutes away from the ferry dock and at the mouth's edge of the 'Iao River), challenged them, and one of them whipped out a business card with Gov. Lingle's name on it, so he figured they were on official state business (duh) and let them go.

    Based on what I have heard from the hearings so far, the biggest sticking point (also based on the amount of time that the PWF guy testified compared to all the other witnesses) seems to be the humpback whale issue and the speed and course of HSF during the prime breeding season.

    Miulang
    Last edited by Miulang; October 3rd, 2007 at 09:03 PM.
    "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like. --Mark Twain

  24. #174
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    Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 6

    And here it is, word for word, straight from KITV:

    Hawaii Superferry officials said they are proud of their inspections for plants, animals and bugs that include popping trunks and engine hoods, which the state might soon require of Young Brothers as well.
    "I think Superferry has just put the bar a little bit higher," said Carol Okada of the Department of Agriculture.
    No ifs, maybes, or any other waffling qualifiers. A direct statement.
    The anti-SuperFerry contingent hates that.
    .
    .

    That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

  25. #175

    Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 6

    Okay so here's a way to address the whale issue. Isn't it time that the state and all the marine entities plying their trade in the water simply collaborate to create a "safe" shipping lane? Passive sonar buoys to detect the presence of whales in a shipping lane. All boats such as the HSF can hook right up to the signals transmitted from the buoys. Viola! You got yourself a set of eyes that sees miles ahead so one can go full steam ahead with confidence.

    As for undercarriages, having the vehicles go through an automated undercarriage power washer should suffice. The water can even be recycled in the washes to be green. But I like to see all the protesters put their money where their mouth is. I like to see the Sierra Club chip in. It would give their credibility about protecting the environment a boost.

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