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Thread: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

  1. #51

    Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

    Quote Originally Posted by craig foo View Post
    The Lehman corporate gangsters have likely not yet spent one dime of their own monies.
    Based on this link, the Lehman group came up with $71 million in equity financing and got the $140 million federally-guaranteed loan from ABN-Amro Bank. Then the $40 million loan from the state.

    http://starbulletin.com/2005/10/29/b...s/story02.html

  2. #52
    craig foo Guest

    Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

    Keanu: " What irritates me is the fact that the State Legislature will convene a special session to save the Superferry. The Legislature as a whole lacks the fortitude to pass substantive legislation during the regular session but they have the political will do do this? "

    I just hope that during the past month enough Hawaii state legislators have been able to acquire a more appreciative understanding of how consequential Oahu's outer islanders believe this Superferry invasion is to their quality of life. Legislators are in a position to acquire such appreciation where many of the citizens in their districts are not in such a position.

    Lingle, her administration, JF Lehman corporate gangsters and perhaps a handful or more of state legislators (where's U.S. Senator Inouye on this? he should be righting some wrongs pronto!, unless he wants to share in Lingle's legacy) created this crappy situation that has set so many Oahu residents against their neighbors.

    A legislative special session may be just the opporitunity to bring out the truth about the Lingle administration's shenanigans, if not outright criminality, in this whole affair. We should demand to know exactly how far JF Lehman et al. have been able to breach the public's trust of our elected officials.

  3. #53
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    Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

    Quote Originally Posted by Keanu View Post
    What irritates me is the fact that the State Legislature will convene a special session to save the Superferry. The Legislature as a whole lacks the fortitude to pass substantive legislation during the regular session but they have the politcal will do do this?
    They have the political will to do what the majority of their constituents want done, if it means their heads in the next election.
    Make trouble, have fun, do good stuffs.

  4. #54
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    Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

    Quote Originally Posted by zztype View Post
    They have the political will to do what the majority of their constituents want done, if it means their heads in the next election.
    Did each legislator poll their contituency to get their sentiments on the matter?

    There are three types of constituents
    1) Those that passionately support an issue
    2) Those that passionately oppose an issue
    3) Those that don't care either way

    I'd say that the majority of voters within a legislator's district, on Oahu anyway, don't care either way.
    Last edited by Keanu; October 9th, 2007 at 04:45 PM.

  5. #55
    kamuelakea Guest

    Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

    Quote Originally Posted by craig foo View Post
    I just hope that during the past month enough Hawaii state legislators have been able to acquire a more appreciative understanding of how consequential Oahu's outer islanders believe this Superferry invasion is to their quality of life.
    Invasion? Where were you guyz in the 50s 60s and 70s when the Plantation Asian Democrats where running hui after hui in order to sell every last bit of beach front land to invaders who build hotels? Once in a while, at the end of the development boom, there were some protests. Except for Molokai, they mostly lost. Read Land and Power in Hawaii.

    Now one little boat shows up. And it expects to dock and then LEAVE and it expects to PICK UP as many people and cars as it drops off and yet it is the devil to Hawaii and the environment.

    You guys are 30 years too late for protecting Hawaii. It's already been destroyed by the Plantation Democrats.

  6. #56

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Keanu View Post
    Despite Lehman's comments, the Army does not or should I say did not, have plans to use the Superferry as a means of transport for the Strykers.

    Craig, I'm on your side.

    As an aside, the Army's draft EIS on stationing the 2/25 Stryker Brigade Combat Team in Hawai'i is still under review, although unfortunately, the EIS process is a mere formality.
    An officer in charge of provisioning for the Army made a statement a couple of weeks ago to the Advertiser that even though HSF was not currently in its plans, that wouldn't necessarily prevent the management from submitting a bid to ferry military personnel and equipment if HSF turned out to be available:

    The Army's manager for the Stryker brigade said last night there are no plans to move the combat vehicles between O'ahu and the Big Island on Hawaii Superferry but said the Army could consider the ferry as a commercial contractor in the future.

    Ron Borne, transformation manager for U.S. Army Garrison, Hawai'i, said combat vehicles would be moved from O'ahu to the Big Island for training primarily on military transport vessels or commercial barges such as Young Brothers. He said the Superferry could conceivably bid for such work if it becomes available but is not now part of the Stryker brigade operations
    Miulang

    Quote Originally Posted by Keanu View Post
    What irritates me is the fact that the State Legislature will convene a special session to save the Superferry. No law should be amended for the benefit of a single business. The Legislature as a whole lacks the fortitude to pass substantive legislation during the regular session but they have the politcal will do do this?
    No, the more irritating part is having the Legislature pass something that could have been passed during the regular session had it not been for Uncle Joe allowing the bill to die in the House Transportation Subcommittee. The Senate did its job and passed legislation that would have allowed HSF to sail while the EA was being done, but Uncle Joe thought it was "unfair" that one private company should be put under this special scrutiny. Heh. Guess what will happen during the Special Session?

    Miulang
    "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

  7. #57
    craig foo Guest

    Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

    joshuatree: "Based on this link, the Lehman group came up with $71 million in equity financing and got the $140 million federally-guaranteed loan from ABN-Amro Bank. Then the $40 million loan from the state. http://starbulletin.com/2005/10/29/b...s/story02.html "

    equity financing
    Definition
    Financing by selling common stock or preferred stock to investors.

    I wonder if such stock was sold under an Hawaii Superferry, Inc. banner? I wonder who bought it and with funding from where? With JF Lehman being a private equity cabal like the Carlyle Group I could wonder such thoughts until the Sun goes out.

    Thanks for the link joshuatree. It's approaching the second anniversary of the article and it does shed a great deal of light on the false assumptions of many pro-ferryites about many of us opposed to Superferry. We did not just recently come to our position of opposition. The Superferry pushers have known for a very long time that they were pushing something onto a lot of citizens who would oppose their Superferry scheme.

    ' With financing secured, the company still faces legal challenges mounted by environmental groups that have filed two lawsuits.
    Opponents of the service point to concerns over possible effects on migrating whales, conflicts with other harbor users and the transmission of invasive species.
    Under a memorandum of agreement signed in September, the company said it would pay the state at least $2.3 million per year for the first three years of operation.
    The state would receive $2 per passenger, $4 per private vehicle and $20 per commercial vehicle. However, John Garibaldi, chief executive of Hawaii Superferry, has said based on passenger projections, the company expects to pay much more than $2.3 million every year. Saturday, Oct. 29, 2005 '

    So the State plans to collect the "user fee" monies from Superferry and Honolulu's neighbor counties get the use, get the shaft. No wonder all of Hawaii's non-Honolulu county governments have to tax to death their property owners...it's the only revenue source such counties are permitted!

  8. #58
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    Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

    Quote Originally Posted by Miulang View Post
    No, the more irritating part is having the Legislature pass something that could have been passed during the regular session had it not been for Uncle Joe allowing the bill to die in the House Transportation Subcommittee.

    Miulang

    I wish I could say more about this but I can't.

  9. #59

    Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

    Here's an August, 2007 story about who the shareholders in HSF are:

    Its financial backers have invested about $300 million, including $140 million in bonds that the company issued in April 2006.

    ...Hawaii Superferry's largest investor, J.F. Lehman, has invested more than $1.6 billion in companies in the defense, aerospace, maritime and other related industries.

    The investment firm is headed by former Secretary of the U.S. Navy John Lehman, who also serves as chairman of the Superferry.

    J.F. Lehman acquired a controlling share in Hawaii Superferry in October 2005 when it invested $80 million in the local company.

    State Farm Life Insurance Co. is the company's largest bondholder with a 33 percent stake, according to Bloomberg data. Other bondholders include Raleigh, N.C.-based Stonewood Insurance Co., which owns less than 1 percent of the bonds.

    Hawaii Superferry's minority shareholders include Maui Land & Pineapple Co. and Kaua'i-based Grove Farm Co. Executives with local retail developer the MacNaughton Group also are minority shareholders.
    MLP and Grove Farm both invested $500,000 apiece (actually, MLP invested $1 million, but sold half the obligation to Grove Farm).

    Miulang
    "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

  10. #60
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    Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

    Another concerning aspect of Judge Cardoza voiding that agreement is possibility that this may open the door for lawsuits against the State of Hawaii. According to John Van Dyke’s opinion here,the state carefully negotiated an agreement that protected them from liability. But now since that agreement has been voided,in my layman’s opinion, it exposes the state of Hawaii to some major lawsuits from HSF and their investors.

    http://www.tdn.com/articles/2007/09/...ews/news07.txt
    Check out my blog on Kona issues :
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  11. #61

    Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

    Quote Originally Posted by Konaguy View Post
    Another concerning aspect of Judge Cardoza voiding that agreement is possibility that this may open the door for lawsuits against the State of Hawaii. According to John Van Dyke’s opinion here,the state carefully negotiated an agreement that protected them from liability. But now since that agreement has been voided,in my layman’s opinion, it exposes the state of Hawaii to some major lawsuits from HSF and their investors.

    http://www.tdn.com/articles/2007/09/...ews/news07.txt
    I thought the operating agreement with the State included a clause that HSF couldn't sue the State if the reason why it couldn't operate was for environmental reasons? I've seen that mentioned in several places now. Also, I think with the injunction, the PUC's certificate of conveyance may be void too, because one of the stipulations is that all State and Federal environmental laws are observed. So I think HSF may be back at square one.

    Miulang
    "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

  12. #62
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    Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

    Quote Originally Posted by Miulang View Post
    I thought the operating agreement with the State included a clause that HSF couldn't sue the State if the reason why it couldn't operate was for environmental reasons? I've seen that mentioned in several places now.
    So, basically, as a partner with the State, you can't sue the State if the State says that you're operating outside of State compliance?

    Sounds like ample grounds for appeal based on conflict of interest; the State having superior knowledge.

    In the private sector, this could be considered, "Bait-&-switch".

    So, contractual or not, the state had superior knowledge and was in a superior position to affect resources and administration measures that directly affect the Superferry.
    Last edited by woodman; October 9th, 2007 at 07:07 PM.

  13. #63

    Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

    Quote Originally Posted by TuNnL View Post
    If visitors are laying claims to rocks of native cultural value
    Foolish malihini. Don't they know bad things will befall them, if they take rocks home from Hawai`i?

  14. #64
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    Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

    Below is a e-mail I sent to Governor Lingle and the legislture supporting a special session to help the HSF.

    Aloha,

    I strongly urge the legislature to have a special session to deal with the Hawaii Superferry debacle. It will be a huge black eye for Hawaii is HSF is forced close up shop and leave Hawaii because of Judge Cardoza’s decision today.

    Hawaii’s business climate is already very poor. With HSF being forced to leave Hawaii,it will make things worse. Future potential investors will think twice before investing money here.

    What is even worse is the fact taxpayers will be on the hook to pay for the 40 million in improvements to our harbors and the 140 million in MADRAD loans given to the Hawaii Superferry.

    Compounding the damage even more is the fact Judge Cardoza voided the HSF’s operating agreement with the Hawaii Department of Transportation. In my layman’s opinion since this agreement has been voided, it exposes the State of Hawaii to lawsuits from the HSF and their investors.

    So I strongly reiterate, please have a special session of the legislature, which will allow HSF to operate while a environmental assessment is being done.

    Best Regards,
    Aaron Stene
    Check out my blog on Kona issues :
    The Kona Blog

  15. #65

    Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

    Hmmm....the HSF website was accepting reservations for Maui starting Sat. Oct. 13 yesterday. Now if you go to the website, the earliest date you can buy tickets for is Fri. Oct. 26. Wishful thinking on their part that the Legislature can get its act together and actually have a special session by then? And the latest news release on that website is from Sept. 14.

    Miulang
    "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

  16. #66
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    Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

    Quote Originally Posted by Konaguy View Post
    I strongly urge the legislature to have a special session to deal with the Hawaii Superferry debacle.
    Are you suggesting that the state legislature reconvene to manipulate the system to undermine a decisions reached by the state judiciary?

    Quote Originally Posted by Konaguy View Post
    Hawaii’s business climate is already very poor. With HSF being forced to leave Hawaii,it will make things worse. Future potential investors will think twice before investing money here.

    What is even worse is the fact taxpayers will be on the hook to pay for the 40 million in improvements to our harbors and the 140 million in MADRAD loans given to the Hawaii Superferry.
    Those taxpayers will still be on the hook, even if the ferry stays and fails.

    Quote Originally Posted by Konaguy View Post
    Compounding the damage even more is the fact Judge Cardoza voided the HSF’s operating agreement with the Hawaii Department of Transportation. In my layman’s opinion since this agreement has been voided, it exposes the State of Hawaii to lawsuits from the HSF and their investors.
    I have not read his decision. I would like to.

    Do you have a copy his remarks so we can explore the reason behind this decision?

  17. #67

    Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

    Quote Originally Posted by woodman View Post
    Are you suggesting that the state legislature reconvene to manipulate the system to undermine a decisions reached by the state judiciary?



    Those taxpayers will still be on the hook, even if the ferry stays and fails.



    I have not read his decision. I would like to.

    Do you have a copy his remarks so we can explore the reason behind this decision?
    The printed transcript of today's decision isn't available yet, but if you go to www.akaku.org, you can hear the closing statements directly from Judge Cardoza.


    Miulang
    "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

  18. #68

    Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

    Does anyone here find it to be flip-flopping on Cardoza's behalf? In 2005, didn't he agree with the State that a waiver is justifiable? And now, because the Supreme Court threw its weight in the other direction, he pulls a 180 himself? It's not like there's any groundbreaking new evidence thrown into the courtroom.

    Either way, the damage has been done for all parties. This is straight up a lose-lose situation for everyone.

  19. #69

    Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

    Quote Originally Posted by Miulang View Post
    And I think the Legislature is finally getting it that they can't be loosey goosey about enforcing the laws anymore.
    Enforcing the law that they write and pass? Your not making much sense here. Legally they could scrap the law completely (but then they'd probably face voter backlash.) So, they can do anything they want, as long as it doesn't outrage the voters.


    Quote Originally Posted by Miulang View Post
    That Hawai'i 2050 Sustainability study
    Oh, please. I looked at it. It's nothing more then a omnibus bill for everyone to stick in their pet project regardless of how sound it is in hopes that together it will pass and become policy. And for the lawmakers to feel like they are doing something. It's political glitter.


    Quote Originally Posted by Keanu View Post
    What irritates me is the fact that the State Legislature will convene a special session to save the Superferry. No law should be amended for the benefit of a single business.
    Except what's been done to a single business shows that the courts are not interpreting things the way the Legislature intended.


    Quote Originally Posted by craig foo View Post
    I just hope that during the past month enough Hawaii state legislators have been able to acquire a more appreciative understanding of how consequential Oahu's outer islanders believe this Superferry invasion is to their quality of life. Legislators are in a position to acquire such appreciation where many of the citizens in their districts are not in such a position.
    Oh, I'm sure they do now, thanks to the Star-Bulletin. Surprised? It appears even Kauai favors the HSF.



    Quote Originally Posted by woodman View Post
    Are you suggesting that the state legislature reconvene to manipulate the system to undermine a decisions reached by the state judiciary?
    The judiciary doesn't make laws. They interpret them. And if the legislature finds they didn't do a good job the first time around, they can go back and fix up the parts that were unclear.


    Now, can someone explain to me what in the heck is so magical about the EA/EIS? It's nothing more then a piece of paper that at best talks about options to mitigating problems. It's not law, it's not binding. It's just information. Somehow, I don't think that would be enough to satisfy the protesters. They are just hiding behind it as a legal obstacle, but it's not their true aim.


    Now for me, I think the only real questions left are:
    - Can the state get it's act together before HSF sets sail?
    - Will the protesters settle down once it starts sailing again?
    The rest is just details.

    Stay tuned for another episode of "As the stomach turns"

  20. #70
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    Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

    If the legislature goes into special session and they vote to save the SuperFerry, they should add additional funds to fit the ship with a few water cannons. Maybe the people on board could plop quarters in it to keep water pressure up as they could spray anything within the "security zone". That would be better than the telescope.

  21. #71
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    Lightbulb Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

    Quote Originally Posted by zztype View Post
    It's just another boat. One among hundreds, maybe thousands, which uses all our harbor facilities, daily, year-round.
    ...and I reiterate, less than 1 percent of those thousands need a $40 million ramp.

    We can’t be so fixated on our desire to preserve the rights of ordinary Americans.

    — U.S. President Bill Clinton
    USA TODAY, page 2A
    11 March 1993

  22. #72
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    Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

    Once again, here's another "Plan B" (LN!) option...



    Add parasailing, jet skiing, restaurant on the main upper deck, banquet hall/nightclub in the garage deck below and we've got ourselves the coolest (albeit most expensive) "activity boat" coming out of Honolulu Harbor! Change the name and logo to "Oahu SuperCruiser".

    I still prefer "Plan A".
    Last edited by Pomai; October 10th, 2007 at 04:12 AM.

  23. #73
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    Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

    Quote Originally Posted by GeckoGeek View Post
    Except what's been done to a single business shows that the courts are not interpreting things the way the Legislature intended.
    If the Legislature leaves a statute open to subjectivity in such a way, it is their fault, not the fault of the courts. Remember, EVERY word within the Statutes are there either by creation or amendment. Who's to say what the Legislature intended?

    HRS section 343-5 seems clear enough to me.

  24. #74
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    Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

    Quote Originally Posted by woodman View Post
    Are you suggesting that the state legislature reconvene to manipulate the system to undermine a decisions reached by the state judiciary?
    Yes, for reasons I mentioned in my letter.


    I have not read his decision. I would like to.

    Do you have a copy his remarks so we can explore the reason behind this decision?
    Look on the right side of this article http://starbulletin.com/2007/10/10/news/story01.html. The entire ruling is posted there.
    Check out my blog on Kona issues :
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  25. #75
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    Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

    Quote Originally Posted by Konaguy View Post
    I strongly urge the legislature to have a special session to deal with the Hawaii Superferry debacle.
    Quote Originally Posted by woodman View Post
    Are you suggesting that the state legislature reconvene to manipulate the system to undermine a decisions reached by the state judiciary?
    Quote Originally Posted by Konaguy View Post
    Yes, for reasons I mentioned in my letter.
    Doesn’t it bother you that this notion conflicts with separation of powers?

    Would you prefer the rules of government be altered to dissolve this separation?

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