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Thread: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

  1. #151
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    Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

    Miulang, I am sorry. But your arguments are not very cohesive, nor convincing.

    So, to recap your points:

    YB is OK to sail while we study because they are entrenched and they provide necessary service to neighbor islanders? Airlines are OK to fly because they are entrenched and they provide necessary service to tourists?

    But YAB (Yet Another Boat) wants to sail and we can't have that because they provide an UNNECESSARY service to LOCALS and they are NOT entrenched (part of the Old Boy Network)?

    Wow. I would hate to be, say, Native Hawaiian, and have to argue with you as to whether I deserved federal recognition. It would be OK for "all those other guys" like Native Alaskans and Native CONUS Americans, because they were "entrenched." But those pesky Hawaiians aren't "entrenched" yet. Why should we let them GET "entrenched."

    Pffft.
    Make trouble, have fun, do good stuffs.

  2. #152

    Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

    Quote Originally Posted by zztype View Post
    YB is OK to sail while we study because they are entrenched and they provide necessary service to neighbor islanders? Airlines are OK to fly because they are entrenched and they provide necessary service to tourists?
    Well, "grandfathering" an established business or operation that is in place prior to the enactment of a piece of legislation is standard practice in governmental regulations.

  3. #153

    Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

    Quote Originally Posted by zztype View Post
    Miulang, I am sorry. But your arguments are not very cohesive, nor convincing.

    So, to recap your points:

    YB is OK to sail while we study because they are entrenched and they provide necessary service to neighbor islanders? Airlines are OK to fly because they are entrenched and they provide necessary service to tourists?

    But YAB (Yet Another Boat) wants to sail and we can't have that because they provide an UNNECESSARY service to LOCALS and they are NOT entrenched (part of the Old Boy Network)?

    Wow. I would hate to be, say, Native Hawaiian, and have to argue with you as to whether I deserved federal recognition. It would be OK for "all those other guys" like Native Alaskans and Native CONUS Americans, because they were "entrenched." But those pesky Hawaiians aren't "entrenched" yet. Why should we let them GET "entrenched."

    Pffft.
    Blaine, you used the term "entrenched" before I did. And Judge Cardoza called HSF "new technology".

    As I said before, whether you care to agree with me or not, YB is a necessity for Neighbor Island folks; HSF is a convenience. Bottom line: I'm glad this mess resulted in the State deciding to do EAs for all the harbors instead of only Kahului. All the Neighbor Island harbors need to be studied because they have all exceeded their capacity to serve the immediate needs of the local residents who live on each island. Where HSF fits into the picture is kinda irrelevant because if it wasn't HSF, it would be some other ferry entity eventually.

    I'm glad that the Special Session isn't debating whether to completely exclude HSF from an EA or not. They are going to be modifying HRS 343 in some way in order to allow HSF to sail while an EA is being conducted. Given what I have read in various reports, about the only way the Neighbor Island legislators are going to give the Gov. what she wants is if there are strings attached. The strings may include a speed limit and some other mitigations that surfaced during the Maui trial.

    And HSF must be earning some income during this period. Someone sent me an invitation to the closing party for the HIFF Friday night, Oct. 27...Guess where it's going to be held? Pier 19, on the Alakai. Be there or be square. I guess management isn't counting on ferrying passengers by Oct. 27 if they went ahead and took reservations for a party instead. And they took the reservation function of their website. You can't reserve online or use the call center to make a reservation. The splash page now has the Gov.'s Perry & Price interview on it.

    Miulang

    P.S. If I was able to do something about it, I would be working for the sovereignty movement. I am against the Akaka Bill as it is written today. The Kanaka Maoli are not a "tribe".
    Last edited by Miulang; October 11th, 2007 at 01:23 PM.
    "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

  4. #154
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    Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

    They layed off 249 workers!
    "Hawaii Superferry CEO John Garibaldi today announced the furlough of 249 employees. The company is retaining 59 employees to handle administrative and operational needs.

    "Over the past seven weeks, we have been very optimistic, but candid, with our employees regarding the various judicial proceedings on Maui," Superferry president and chief executive officer John Garibaldi said in a statement. "An unavoidable consequence of the recent ruling is that we have reached the point where Hawaii Superferry can no longer bear the financial cost of fully retaining its workforce."
    http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/ar...082157634.html

    I'm lost foa words.

    Auntie Lynn
    Last edited by 1stwahine; October 11th, 2007 at 02:35 PM.
    Be AKAMAI ~ KOKUA Hawai`i!
    Philippians 4:13 --- I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.

  5. #155

    Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

    Young Brothers is a "necessity" only because of its position as a MONOPOLY! We have to pay their high rates to ship vehicles inter-island because there is no other choice.

  6. #156
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    Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

    Quote Originally Posted by 1stwahine View Post
    They layed off 249 workers!
    Yep. And I wonder how many of those guys worked on Kauai and Maui? Economic development at work! Where's that number for the unemployment office?

    Here we go:

    http://www.hawaii.gov/labor/ui/index.shtml

    http://www.hawaii.gov/labor/ui/contactsnew.shtml

    KAUAI BRANCH

    MANAGER, MARILYN YAMAGUCHI 274-3040 274-3046

    KAUAI CLAIMS 274-3043 274-3046
    3-3100 KUHIO HWY STE 12
    LIHUE HI 96766-1153

    EMPLOYER SERVICES SECTION 274-3025 274-3046

    ___________________________
    MAUI BRANCH

    MANAGER, FAITH NAGATA 984-8407 984-8444

    MAUI CLAIMS 984-8400 984-8444
    54 S HIGH ST RM 201
    WAILUKU HI 96793-2198

    MOLOKAI CLAIMS 553-1750 553-1753
    55 MAKAENA PL RM 4
    KAUNAKAKAI HI 96748-1858

    EMPLOYER SERVICES SECTION 984-8410 984-8444

    Hey, just trying to be helpful here.
    Make trouble, have fun, do good stuffs.

  7. #157

    Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

    Quote Originally Posted by zztype View Post
    Yep. And I wonder how many of those guys worked on Kauai and Maui?
    According to the report I heard, 35 people each on Kauai and Maui and 179 (?) on Oahu.
    Last edited by glossyp; October 11th, 2007 at 04:00 PM. Reason: Clarity

  8. #158
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    Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

    Quote Originally Posted by glossyp View Post
    According to the report I heard, 35 people each on Kauai and Maui and 179 (?) on Oahu.
    "The furlough involves 178 people on O'ahu, 36 on Maui and 35 on Kaua'i."
    http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/ar...082157634.html

    Auntie Lynn
    Be AKAMAI ~ KOKUA Hawai`i!
    Philippians 4:13 --- I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.

  9. #159

    Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

    Quote Originally Posted by 1stwahine View Post
    "The furlough involves 178 people on O'ahu, 36 on Maui and 35 on Kaua'i."
    http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/ar...082157634.html

    Auntie Lynn
    Thanks! I was listening to the radio and driving so missed the exact count. Regardless, this is yet another in a string of sad days. I know there are jobs out there for these people, but how disappointing for them to have been part of something new and exciting and see it gone.

  10. #160
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    Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

    Quote Originally Posted by glossyp View Post
    Thanks! I was listening to the radio and driving so missed the exact count. Regardless, this is yet another in a string of sad days. I know there are jobs out there for these people, but how disappointing for them to have been part of something new and exciting and see it gone.
    I don't know anyone who worked for HSF yet, I feel so SAD for each person who got layed off today. My prayers and thoughts goes to each and everyone of them. To have anticipated an exciting new beginning and now this ending.

    Shame on Hawai'i nei!

    Shame on the Legislature of Hawai'i.

    Auntie Lynn
    Be AKAMAI ~ KOKUA Hawai`i!
    Philippians 4:13 --- I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.

  11. #161
    kamuelakea Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TuNnL View Post
    Ever wonder how John Waihee III came to power with a budget surplus and left incoming Gov. Ben Cayetano with the largest black hole of a deficit in state history? Because he was a typical Hawaiian. He hooked up all his friends. That’s right, you heard me say it. Plantation Asians, my @ss.
    Gotta agree with you here TuNnL. Squidwaddah was one lame gov. I heard a quote once from someone who new him at UH Law and she was saying how she NEVER ever though of John Squidwaddah becoming the governor or anything close. Oh, I remember, it was his Japanee wife who said that. Funny no?

    Squidwaddah was basically a plant by the Plantation Asians (Pun intended). He was dumb enough so that their 90% control of the Senate and House wouldn't have to worry about the governor.

    But the weakness of Waihee and so many other major problems in Hawaii (you can call it a broken record) come back to the fact that there is no check and no balance. Dummy's like Waihee did things that he couldn't have done if there were some opposition in the legislature. But there was no opposition. Juss like the corruption you see with the national Republican control over the past few years.

    You can get all huhu cuz I'm nailing the current power monopoly but sorry for the truth cuz.

    I like the fact that the spineless Plantation Asians are trying their best not to say anything about saving the superferry cuz they are hoping they can make Lingle look like the pro-business Plantation haole boogieman that has driven so much of the Plantation Asian's power ever the years. Its good that they are fighting with Lingle. It means there is a better chance of the result being better for most of Hawaii, not just one segment.

    Quote Originally Posted by TuNnL View Post
    Who do you think those Plantation Asians learned it from?
    Japan. Thats the culture. Quiet but effective. Remember that? Back room deals. No talk. No argue. No debate. Grumpy gray haired old Japanee man sits in meeting saying nothing. Ultimately the decision is made by the same old man in another back room somewhere. Take care your own. Cut off your enemies. Stick together. Vote race not issue. The sun belongs to us.

    By the way TuNnL, I noticed you are writing from Moilili, home of the Japanese Torii Gate on PUBLIC LAND!. Remember the Cross up Camp Smith and also the one up Kolekole pass? Both torn down cuz no can have religious symbols on public land. But the Japanese Torii Gate, used as an entrance to Shinto Shrines and other sacred places, on the Triangle park public land at Unveristy and King? No problemo.

    And you say I am an "ignorant ranting". So try explain that one Miyagi. Funny kine no?

    Arigato



    Aloha

  12. #162

    Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

    Pardon for this small interruption, but it bugs me.

    http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?va=tribe

    Main Entry: tribe
    Pronunciation: 'trIb
    Function: noun
    Etymology: Middle English, from Latin tribus, a division of the Roman people, tribe
    1 a : a social group comprising numerous families, clans, or generations together with slaves, dependents, or adopted strangers b : a political division of the Roman people originally representing one of the three original tribes of ancient Rome c : PHYLE
    2 : a group of persons having a common character, occupation, or interest
    3 : a category of taxonomic classification ranking below a subfamily; also : a natural group irrespective of taxonomic rank <the cat tribe> <the rose tribe>



    In relations with the assorted NATIONS of North American Natives the term tribe is just a contrived terminology of convenience with no more solid definition than a fart in the wind has.

    http://tinyurl.com/yrlsdn



    I don't particularly care for the Akaka bill as it stands 'cause it turns a nation of people into toothless pups. But to say the Kanaka Maoli aren't a 'tribe' in the classical definition of a the word is a mistake.

    If they want to define themselves as a tribe in the classical dictionary sense, well they are. If they want to define themselves by the government definition then they'll have to get used to kibble.


    But yanno...sometimes toothless pups grow to be big dogs

    with big teeth.

  13. #163

    Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

    Quote Originally Posted by Peshkwe View Post
    Pardon for this small interruption, but it bugs me.

    http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?va=tribe

    Main Entry: tribe
    Pronunciation: 'trIb
    Function: noun
    Etymology: Middle English, from Latin tribus, a division of the Roman people, tribe
    1 a : a social group comprising numerous families, clans, or generations together with slaves, dependents, or adopted strangers b : a political division of the Roman people originally representing one of the three original tribes of ancient Rome c : PHYLE
    2 : a group of persons having a common character, occupation, or interest
    3 : a category of taxonomic classification ranking below a subfamily; also : a natural group irrespective of taxonomic rank <the cat tribe> <the rose tribe>



    In relations with the assorted NATIONS of North American Natives the term tribe is just a contrived terminology of convenience with no more solid definition than a fart in the wind has.

    http://tinyurl.com/yrlsdn



    I don't particularly care for the Akaka bill as it stands 'cause it turns a nation of people into toothless pups. But to say the Kanaka Maoli aren't a 'tribe' in the classical definition of a the word is a mistake.

    If they want to define themselves as a tribe in the classical dictionary sense, well they are. If they want to define themselves by the government definition then they'll have to get used to kibble.


    But yanno...sometimes toothless pups grow to be big dogs

    with big teeth.
    My bad. Of course I know the Native Americans are not tribes either. They belong to nations, as do the aborigines, the Inuits and all other indigenous people. Sorry, Peshkwe. My "white man's" education got the better of me that time.

    Miulang
    "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

  14. #164

    Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

    *snort*

    It's not 'white man's' education that gotcha it's the winners vs losers education that got ya.

    Shoot just following this topic shows big time tribalism. It's just not tribalism base on ethnicity but of location. Ya gots the Oahu tribe vs the Maui tribe vs the Kauai'i tribe..and ya all scrappin to see who's gonna control your individual mini Nations.

  15. #165
    kamuelakea Guest

    Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

    Quote Originally Posted by Miulang View Post
    My bad. Of course I know the Native Americans are not tribes either. They belong to nations, as do the aborigines, the Inuits and all other indigenous people. Sorry, Peshkwe. My "white man's" education got the better of me that time.

    Miulang
    Nobody's limiting your education Miulang.

    I don't really get this discussion. While all semantics, I think the reason Hawaiians like to point out that they (they meaning >50% which is how I define Hawaiian) are not "JUST" a tribe is because the Hawaiian Nation was far more "ADVANCED" than any Indian Tribe ever was. Now I know peshkwe will probably reeducate us on this and will probably say that the fact that the rest of the world (not just Europeans) sees a difference between a tribe and a nation is irrelevant, but I don't get it yet.

    The Hawaiian Nation was an organized government with established Kings, Chiefs and Alii before immigrants showed up. Once they showed up, the Hawaiian Nation (the one that was overthrown) had an elected and appointed government, established treaties with other foreign nations and even had a written constitution.

    Now Indians will say that all that is meaningless. While I am sure it is meaningless to those Indians, I am not so sure it is truly meaningless. Most modern peoples, regardless of being White or Asian or Polynesian, i think, would recognize and admit that there is a difference between an organized government like the Hawaiian Nation was and a "Tribe" that exists with rules understood by insiders but invisible to outsiders.

    Hawaiians were never just a "tribe". They were a unified, single race people with a single language and a uniform culture governed by an organized governmental system which was clear to other nations which the Hawaiian Nation was involved with.

    I don't think one could say the same of Indian "tribes".

    I am NOT suggesting one has the right to be slaughtered and taken over while one does not. But what is clear to me is that if over 180 Indian "Tribes" are recognized by the US today as indigenous people, then there is no excuse for Hawaiians not to also be regarded as indignenous people.

    That's not a "white mans" education. That's common sense.

    And that's why the Superferry won't sail. See?
    Last edited by kamuelakea; October 11th, 2007 at 06:54 PM.

  16. #166

  17. #167
    kamuelakea Guest

    Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

    Again, my point is not that Indians do not have a right to exist as "tribes" or "tribal nations" or whatever. Indians obviously were in North America before and white men showed up and obviously had their own structure and culture.

    My only point is that what ever Indians were, Hawaiians were equal and more. More to the extent that they were absolutely unique. No 200 tribes or factions living in Hawaii. One people. One culture. One language. One government.

    More also because Hawaiian quickly incorporated western governing ways so that they were equivalent to any other sovereign country.

    Indians don't need to defend their soverignty in the same way Hawaiians do. they got their reservations. They got their gambling. They got their fishing rights.

    Hawaiians have nothing beyond being the ward of the state.

  18. #168
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    Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

    how did this get off topic? tribes and superferry ? thats a stretch

  19. #169
    kamuelakea Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by escondido100 View Post
    how did this get off topic? tribes and superferry ? thats a stretch
    No no. all related. See the plantation asian tribes and the superferry are similar to the Native American indian tribe. Plus, since the superferry is beyond the 3 mile international limit, they can also provide gambling just like the Indians. Not to mention, oh I forget.

    CHALLENGE: Find a pro-superferry comment made in public over the last 2 months by a Plantation Asian Democrat.

    Anybody????

  20. #170

    Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

    Quote Originally Posted by kamuelakea View Post
    Again, my point is not that Indians do not have a right to exist as "tribes" or "tribal nations" or whatever. Indians obviously were in North America before and white men showed up and obviously had their own structure and culture.
    Yup, jus like the Hawaiian did before the Euros showed up.

    My only point is that what ever Indians were, Hawaiians were equal and more. More to the extent that they were absolutely unique. No 200 tribes or factions living in Hawaii. One people. One culture. One language. One government.
    On a smaller chunk of land in the middle of the ocean with about a hundred years more to be on their own without interference to develop than the folks over this way did. It's all about the timing. And factions? What was that whole unification thing about folks being dumped off the Pali about eh?


    More also because Hawaiian quickly incorporated western governing ways so that they were equivalent to any other sovereign country.
    Again it's about the timing and a different tact being used rather than the stomp and conquer dance.

    Indians don't need to defend their soverignty in the same way Hawaiians do. they got their reservations. They got their gambling. They got their fishing rights.
    BWAHAHAHA.....BUH!

    http://www.indiancountry.com/content.cfm?id=1096415886


    Hawaiians have nothing beyond being the ward of the state.
    Really now? Showing your throat that easily?

    Who's a goot boy! Can ya roll over like a goot pup so I can scratch yer belly? Got a pretty red bouncy ball for you...don't mind the dangly leather straps on the sides

  21. #171
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    Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

    http://tinyurl.com/23cs4w
    Right Whales, Right of Way
    Make trouble, have fun, do good stuffs.

  22. #172

    Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

    Quote Originally Posted by kamuelakea View Post
    No no. all related. See the plantation asian tribes and the superferry are similar to the Native American indian tribe. Plus, since the superferry is beyond the 3 mile international limit, they can also provide gambling just like the Indians. Not to mention, oh I forget.

    CHALLENGE: Find a pro-superferry comment made in public over the last 2 months by a Plantation Asian Democrat.

    Anybody????
    You have to wonder why Sen. Inouye has been surprisingly silent about all of this, since he was one of the initial proponents of HSF and even helped get some big bucks thrown into the HSF pot. Why isn't he saying anything about going to Congress to see if there's a way to help out HSF on the federal side with postponement of the first MARAD loan payment? He has a lot of seniority in the Senate (and the clout) where he should be able to do something on the federal level.

    Miulang
    "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

  23. #173

    Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

    Quote Originally Posted by Miulang View Post
    You have to wonder why Sen. Inouye has been surprisingly silent about all of this, since he was one of the initial proponents of HSF and even helped get some big bucks thrown into the HSF pot. Why isn't he saying anything about going to Congress to see if there's a way to help out HSF on the federal side with postponement of the first MARAD loan payment? He has a lot of seniority in the Senate (and the clout) where he should be able to do something on the federal level.

    Because there's nothing for him to gain from this. He may have been a war hero but years of back office politics has corrupted him. There should be a limit on number of terms one can serve in the Senate.

  24. #174
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    Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

    Quote Originally Posted by joshuatree View Post
    Because there's nothing for him to gain from this. He may have been a war hero but years of back office politics has corrupted him. There should be a limit on number of terms one can serve in the Senate.
    heheheh

    BRAVO!!!!

    Auntie Pupule
    Be AKAMAI ~ KOKUA Hawai`i!
    Philippians 4:13 --- I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.

  25. #175

    Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

    HSF story in the Mobile, AL Press-Register with a quote from John Lehman:

    Lehman said Hawaii Superferry is "very hopeful" that a session will be called within a week or two.

    But should the Maui court's decision stand, "we are looking at other options" for getting the first vessel back in service somewhere, Lehman said.

    "The ship is very much sought-after," he added. "There aren't very many like it in the world."
    In other words, he's not worried about whether or not there will be business for HSF, whether it's in Hawai'i or elsewhere.

    Miulang
    "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

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