Hawaiian Airlines Signs With Airbus

[mel]

Re: Hawaiian and Airbus

Surely cost has figured into the overall operation of the airline industry. That is why 2 engine long range jets are more popular than 4 engined ones. Fuel savings, cost, etc. I can understand that. However for someone who lives in the Seattle area, you should also be a little disappointed too since any airline buying an Airbus will not be supporting Boeing... but then again, didn't Boeing sort of abandon Seattle too?

[Star of Gladness]

Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 4

I'm sure the 69,000 mile is a typo but even you think the HA bankruptcy was a sham. So how do you separate HA from go! when it comes to ethics?

In this battle, choose sides, you must! Everybody has their favorites... They might all be liars but Dunkerly and Banmiller don't go around bragging about it or bus driving their top execs and suing their critics or dont get me started... Haven't the mods separated threads?

What HA did to Boeing and what AQ did to the retirees was wrong. No excuses... They were both just as wrong as Mesa with those two stunts but there lies the difference.

Once or twice a decade HA & AQ pull off an occasional "stunt" as described. At Mesa screw jobs are daily protocol as is lying, cheating, stealing, destroying evidence, pencil whipping books to meet compliance with those pesky Federal SARB-OX rules, swapping porn and Lord knows what else.


/rant

/soapbox

[joshuatree]

Re: Hawaiian Airlines Signs With Airbus

Those routes already stop in Los Angeles or Hong Kong/singapore. Airlnes are trying to avoid making a stop over in the US due to pax having to deplane , get finger printed etc. it's just a hassle....

I agree there are some major hurdles for Hawaiian to overcome if they really want to be that ambitious. However, if you think about it, Hawaiian has stated they want to fly to Europe. They already fly to Sydney. Makes sense to link the two because that city pair has a decent amount of business travelers and those guys provide the biggest profit margins.

Since Hawaiian is buying new widebodies, and I don't ever recall them buying new widebodies, they will have a lot of say in the interior fit. Maybe they will have international first class fitted out? PTVs instead of Digiplayers? LED mood lighting? Lie-flat seats? They can definitely upgrade their first class product.

As for security clearances, yes, that's a big hurdle. But then again, Australia and the UK are countries the US is probably on best terms with short of Canada. It's possible to have preclearance facilities set up in OZ and the UK. I know Vancouver has one, my brother flew from Tokyo to SF and he cleared US customs in Vancouver, the second leg of his Air Canada flight from Vancouver to SF was a US domestic flight, go figure.

Ultimately, I hope to see that they do try to serve this route. It gives Hawaiian a chance to tap into the business traveler market, the leisure traveler market has always been one of the lowest profit margins. Hawaiian really needs to expand into other market areas in order to remain stable. And like you said, newer planes can simply make nonstops now so it makes HNL less and less important. That's not good for the long term future so making HNL a hub for any operation is a good thing.

SRB of Virgin Atlantic did say he wants to fly Europe-Hawaii routes when they take delivery of the 787. Also, HA has expressed interest in flying a Hawaii-Shanghai route if they can get the slot. Hawaii to Japan? I think HA did fly to Fukuoka before but it wasn't profitable. The slots to Tokyo are hard to get as NWA and UA have a stranglehold for that route.

[Star of Gladness]

Re: Hawaiian Airlines Signs With Airbus

I dont think the A-330 has the lift to take a full load of passengers the entire distance. If they use all their range (full fuel) can they fill all the seats? 300+?

[joshuatree]

Re: Hawaiian and Airbus

I've never ridden an Airbus. I am sure they are about the same as a Boeing. I don't do much out of state travel.

Slight differences, think Toyota vs Honda.

With the issue of keeping costs low, we'll probably never see any more 3 or 4 engined planes ever again except for the extra large planes like the 747 and the 380.

[helen]

Re: Hawaiian and Airbus

but then again, didn't Boeing sort of abandon Seattle too?

I had the impression that Boeing just moved their corporate headquarters to Chicago, but still kept the manufacting plants in Seattle.

And this is not the first time a local airline company used foreign built aircraft to fly between the islands. Aloha Airlines used at least 2 turboprops and 1 jet aircraft in the 1960's (theirs looked like the DC-9).

[Miulang]

Re: Hawaiian and Airbus

Surely cost has figured into the overall operation of the airline industry. That is why 2 engine long range jets are more popular than 4 engined ones. Fuel savings, cost, etc. I can understand that. However for someone who lives in the Seattle area, you should also be a little disappointed too since any airline buying an Airbus will not be supporting Boeing... but then again, didn't Boeing sort of abandon Seattle too?

Only corporate HQ moved to Chicago. The main assembling is still done in Seattle and Everett. What they have figured out with the 787 is having the parts made in different parts of the world might not be such a hot idea because for some reason, when the parts were put together, the tolerances weren't as accurate as they should have been in the joints. That was part of the reason why the whole project got delayed. They had to figure out how to fill in the gaps.

Miulang

[Kaukura]

Re: Hawaiian and Airbus

Only corporate HQ moved to Chicago. The main assembling is still done in Seattle and Everett. What they have figured out with the 787 is having the parts made in different parts of the world might not be such a hot idea because for some reason, when the parts were put together, the tolerances weren't as accurate as they should have been in the joints. That was part of the reason why the whole project got delayed. They had to figure out how to fill in the gaps.

Miulang

with manufacturing being computerized now, I'm not sure it would have made a difference if they were next door vs. in another country.


also, I hope people are not thinking this is a "should buy American" type of deal. An airline should choose the best fit for them in terms of need, timing, delivery, price etc. There are so many variables. There are some airlines that are strictly Boeing and some that are strictly Airbus. US air and Northwest are large Airbus customers. Air France is still a large Boeing customer (they have a large brand new Boeing 777-200/300 fleet, even though Airbus planes are manufactured in Toulouse and France is part of the consortium that makes up Airbus Industries. Air Canada went from all Boeing to "getting rid of Boeings and buying Airbus", to back to Boeing (with their large 777 and 787 purchases.

there is not a lot of predictability in the airline world.

[Miulang]

Re: Hawaiian and Airbus

with manufacturing being computerized now, I'm not sure it would have made a difference if they were next door vs. in another country.

In this particular case, apparently it was.

Miulang

[joshuatree]

Re: Hawaiian Airlines Signs With Airbus

I dont think the A-330 has the lift to take a full load of passengers the entire distance. If they use all their range (full fuel) can they fill all the seats? 300+?

I don't think HA is planning to use their 330s for Europe but rather their transpacific destinations such as Sydney, Manila, and maybe Shanghai if they can get that route. Plus the usual West Coast destinations. I think HA is intending to use their 350s for Europe but then again, maybe some of the 350s may be used on their more popular West Coast routes too since they have a large enough market to fill capacity.

[Konaguy]

Re: Hawaiian Airlines Signs With Airbus

There is a worldwide shortage in the fasteners that are used to put the planes together. Combined with this fact, there is some problems with the far flung
supply chain envisioned for the 787 (link).

On the upside, Morgan Stanley is telling investors to snatch up Boeing stock before the next 787
project update on December 11.

[mel]

Re: Hawaiian and Airbus

And this is not the first time a local airline company used foreign built aircraft to fly between the islands. Aloha Airlines used at least 2 turboprops and 1 jet aircraft in the 1960's (theirs looked like the DC-9).

Yep, true.

Aloha flew the Vicker's Viscount prop liner in the late 1960s... it was a 4 engine turboprop... and they were first I think in Hawaii with jet service... the BAC-111 twin jet that looked like the DC-9. Hawaiian flew the NAMC YS-11 out of Japan for a while too.... and the Shorts 330 from Ireland.

These were all short range inter-island planes.

What they have figured out with the 787 is having the parts made in different parts of the world might not be such a hot idea because for some reason, when the parts were put together, the tolerances weren't as accurate as they should have been in the joints. That was part of the reason why the whole project got delayed. They had to figure out how to fill in the gaps.

The old Johnny Cash song "One Piece at a Time" comes to mind here..."they put it all together and they had 3 headlights, 2 on the left and 1 on the right..."

[oggboy]

Re: Hawaiian Airlines Signs With Airbus

Hawaiian also flew the Vicker Viscount as well before Aloha. Hal was the first with jet service between the Islands with the dc9`s.

[Random]

Re: Hawaiian Airlines Signs With Airbus

Not quite interisland but HA finally is making a big play. Planning on spending $4.4 billion on an all new Airbus fleet, 6 A330s and 6 A350XWBs with options for 6 more of each model, total 24. Nice!!!! Looks like Airbus was able to woo HA away from Boeing.

Now, let's see what they'll do with the interisland fleet.

$4.4 bil on new transpacific flight planes, and so far no consideration for reviving their flight route service to-from Moloka'i.

Guess which finger I'm holding up?

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Hawaiian Airlines Signs With Airbus

Guess which finger I'm holding up?

Does this help?