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Thread: Toddler thrown onto freeway

  1. #151
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    Default Re: Toddler thrown onto freeway

    Quote Originally Posted by SusieMisajon View Post
    The guy yelled out at reporters 'thanks very much'....does this mean that it was a copycat murder of the four kids thrown off a bridge a few days earlier? Does this mean that maybe the media should be blamed?
    What he shouted was, "Thanks very much for what you've done for my family." I'm only speculating, but I wonder if this isn't related to the high-profile death of his friend while they were racing, and the media's coverage of that.
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  2. #152
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    Default Re: Toddler thrown onto freeway

    Quote Originally Posted by Pua'i Mana'o View Post
    ... However, you mentioned your solutions in this thread, and that same post you went after the 900lb gorilla. Do forgive the natural tendency to correlate the two.

    So what does your solution mean in practice? The supply side is to remove who? And how? And why?
    I never proffered any solutions. I respectfully ask that anyone commenting on my original post please reread it. What I put forth was a discussion point meant to catalyze general thinking and talking to help to arrive at solutions. Outing the gorilla was a necessary part of the process.

    It's all too easy to lay blame based on assumptions and second-hand information. What we owe to Cyrus, Peter-Boy and Shari is to prevent the precious and innocent keiki of Hawaii from sharing their fates.
    "If it's brown, it's cooked. If it's black, it's f***ed" - G. Ramsey

  3. #153
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    Default Re: Toddler thrown onto freeway

    Quote Originally Posted by SusieMisajon View Post
    The parents of the man that threw the baby off the bridge should have been sterilized.
    Please cite references that show Higa's parents knew there'd be a problem with their adult son prior to his conception.

  4. #154
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    Default Re: Toddler thrown onto freeway

    Quote Originally Posted by mapen View Post
    craig, I agree with most everything you said except your conclusion, that the mother is more responsible for the death than Higa.

    Yes, Cyrus's mother was a pathetic loser of a mom. Her crime in this incident was chronic neglect for the welfare of her son.

    Taking your theory of what drove Higa to do what he did, his crime is pre-meditated murder.

    That chronic neglect you mention is all the reason why she had a lot to do with her son's death. There's a nut case living upstairs from her. She get's hysterical just thinking Matthew Higa lives next to her. She leaves her toddler home while she goes to appointments.

    When I went in for a final interview at KGU nine years ago I had to take my then three year old son Reyn with me. He was jumping around but thru it all I managed to impress the guys there. My feelings were no matter what I don't leave my kids alone.

    But despite her concerns about her whacko neighbor she left him there in the care of whom she trusted to watch him. Obviously she made a bad choice of child care provider(s). I assume those appointments she had to go to were that much more important than, and the people she left Cyrus with were trusted enough to warrant leaving him for several hours. I can see a job interview or maybe even a job itself.

    However she admitted being on drugs up until Cyrus' death. Job interview usually means drug test so I think it's safe to assume that she wasn't job hunting. Job possibly? Well if she's on drugs while employed...that tells us about how she values her job.

    Either way whatever she was doing she ADMITTED she was still using drugs up until Cyrus' death. She's the sole custodial adult with a history with CPS and she's still taking drugs. Now her son's dead because she wasn't there to protect him, knowing full well of the hazzards of the demographic environment she left him in.

    She may not have killed Cyrus...but she definately could have saved his life, but she wasn't there. At least a baby sitter typically has enough sense to watch a child...that's what you pay them for right? Her choice was a boyfriend who was more concerned about fixing a car rather than choosing a child care provider. BTW there are agencies out there that can help people find licensed child care providers that have the proper training to watch infant/toddlers, but she chose not to utilize them.

    Her neglect and wrong choices allowed Cyrus to fall into the hands of someone she feared. She does bear a huge responsibility. Her level of neglect was so bad CPS had to get involved...remember? And she failed again resulting in the death of her son whom she was entrusted to protect.

    That is true child neglect and the resulting death of Cyrus is a perfect example of how bad child neglect can become. She is responsible for allowing Cyrus to have been killed. She was the sole custodial parent.

    I know that's a damning statement and I'll probably go to hell for saying that, but the fact remains...had she been there for Cyrus, none of this would have happened. But who could have known right? Well the red flags of neglect were fully there and nobody better than herself could have seen it.
    Life is what you make of it...so please read the instructions carefully.

  5. #155
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    Default Re: Toddler thrown onto freeway

    Quote Originally Posted by tutusue View Post
    Please cite references that show Higa's parents knew there'd be a problem with their adult son prior to his conception.
    Ah. Let me rephrase that: The grandparents of the baby should have been sterilized.

  6. #156
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    Default Re: Toddler thrown onto freeway

    Quote Originally Posted by SusieMisajon View Post
    Ah. Let me rephrase that: The grandparents of the baby should have been sterilized.
    Once again...Please cite references that show the grandparents knew there'd be problems with their daughter's parenting skills prior to conceiving their daughter.

  7. #157

    Default Re: Toddler thrown onto freeway

    Quote Originally Posted by mapen View Post
    Yes, Cyrus's mother was a pathetic loser of a mom. Her crime in this incident was chronic neglect for the welfare of her son.
    Correct. While she was hardly a model mom, the details that led to the baby's death is hardly unusual - she left the child in the hands of a trusted family member. A family member that didn't keep a constant eye on the child. Probably feeling that the child would be safe in their apartment. I doubt if that is unusual. I'm sure there's many caring parents to end up having to trust their family to watch their kids.


    Quote Originally Posted by Pua'i Mana'o View Post
    There is a lot that we all have in common regarding our collective attitude towards this tragedy: it was preventable.
    We would like to think so. Hindsight being 20/20, it's easy to say coulda, woulda, shoulda. But what policy should we set to prevent something like this from happening again?

    Looking over the CPS records, at what point should the child have been removed? Are you comfortable in setting that policy in all cases? Aren't we getting distracted by the family's history? We still don't know how Higa got a hold of the kid. The baby may have been standing at the door and Higa simply opened the door and took him. The families' criminal and drug background made no difference.

    The only person directly responsible for the death is Higa. No matter how bad the kid's life, his actions are not defensible. Higa was known to the police. Apparently he was under mental health care. He demonstrated violent actions (breaking windows). And yet he was allowed out in public without supervision. Who is responsible for that?

    If we are to seek prevention, we need to closely examine how society handles the menially ill. There was a time we could commit such people. But somewhere, their "rights" were asserted and many could not be committed against their will. This has had a direct result in the homeless we see. We have let the pendulum representing the balance of the mentally ill's rights swing too far at the expense of the public's rights.

    This is what needs fixing.

  8. #158
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    Default Re: Toddler thrown onto freeway

    Quote Originally Posted by GeckoGeek View Post
    Higa was known to the police. Apparently he was under mental health care. He demonstrated violent actions (breaking windows). And yet he was allowed out in public without supervision. Who is responsible for that?

    If we are to seek prevention, we need to closely examine how society handles the menially ill. There was a time we could commit such people. But somewhere, their "rights" were asserted and many could not be committed against their will. This has had a direct result in the homeless we see. We have let the pendulum representing the balance of the mentally ill's rights swing too far at the expense of the public's rights.

    This is what needs fixing.
    The law says, unfortunately, that:

    §334-60.2 Involuntary hospitalization criteria. A person may be committed to a psychiatric facility for involuntary hospitalization, if the court finds:

    (1) That the person is mentally ill or suffering from substance abuse;

    (2) That the person is imminently dangerous to self or others, is gravely disabled or is obviously ill; and

    (3) That the person is in need of care or treatment, or both, and there is no suitable alternative available through existing facilities and programs which would be less restrictive than hospitalization. [L 1984, c 188, pt of §3; am L 1985, c 75, §2; am L 1986, c 335, §4]

    HRS 344-60.2
    Note that it says imminently dangerous. That word "imminently" is the problem -- it's almost impossible to meet that standard.

  9. #159
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    Default Re: Toddler thrown onto freeway

    Quote Originally Posted by tutusue View Post
    Once again...Please cite references that show the grandparents knew there'd be problems with their daughter's parenting skills prior to conceiving their daughter.
    Only if you show me how it can be known that the baby would've grown up to be problematic and should never have been allowed to be conceived.

  10. #160
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    Default Re: Toddler thrown onto freeway

    Quote Originally Posted by scrivener View Post
    What he shouted was, "Thanks very much for what you've done for my family." I'm only speculating, but I wonder if this isn't related to the high-profile death of his friend while they were racing, and the media's coverage of that.
    Come on, he just threw a toddler off an overpass, smoked a fag and was arrested... and he's thanking (blaming?) the media for coverage of a death that happened years ago? That's a bit of a stretch.

    That "thank you" tirade and the mannerisms from time of arrest to perp-walk struck me as crackhead all the way. If not complete lunacy...

  11. #161
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    Default Re: Toddler thrown onto freeway

    man a lot of you folks in this thread are just plain stupid.

  12. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by dick View Post
    Come on, he just threw a toddler off an overpass, smoked a fag and was arrested... and he's thanking (blaming?) the media for coverage of a death that happened years ago? That's a bit of a stretch.

    That "thank you" tirade and the mannerisms from time of arrest to perp-walk struck me as crackhead all the way. If not complete lunacy...
    I thought maybe it was a copycat of the murder a few days ago.

    Quote Originally Posted by PoiBoy View Post
    man a lot of you folks in this thread are just plain stupid.
    How so? You get something better?

  13. #163
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    Exclamation Re: Toddler thrown onto freeway

    State unsure of how to handle growing tributes
    State officials are pondering what to do with Cyrus Belt's public memorial, which has attracted hundreds of people and piles of gifts in an outpouring of grief for the 23-month-old who was thrown from an H-1 pedestrian overpass Thursday.

    "I can't recall the last time we had a roadside memorial of this magnitude," said Scott Ishikawa, Department of Transportation spokesman.

    It has grown so large and attracts so many visitors and passers-by that it has become a safety issue.
    As I said before, I have a fairly negative view of roadside memorials in general, but actually visited this one myself with my family when my wife felt strongly compelled to pay her respects. It's an experience I'm still processing.

    I agree there's a significant safety issue here, both along Magellan Ave. (which people used to speed along as a poor bypass for the freeway below) and for drivers on the H-1 who can't help but take their eyes off the road to look up. I suspect the memorial will have to come down, perhaps several times, but for now... in all the chaos, there are a multitude of messages to be drawn.

  14. #164

    Default Re: Toddler thrown onto freeway

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Miyashiro View Post
    The law says, unfortunately, that:

    ... it's almost impossible to meet that standard.
    And we've seen the results. Who's defending status quo? This is Hawaii State law. The legislature is in session. Seems like there's plenty of will to make changes.

    Higa should not have been in public. Cyrus was just a child close by.

    It's time for Cyrus' Law.

  15. #165
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    Default Re: Toddler thrown onto freeway

    Quote Originally Posted by SusieMisajon View Post
    The parents of the man that threw the baby off the bridge should have been sterilized.
    Quote Originally Posted by tutusue View Post
    Please cite references that show Higa's parents knew there'd be a problem with their adult son prior to his conception.
    Quote Originally Posted by SusieMisajon View Post
    Ah. Let me rephrase that: The grandparents of the baby should have been sterilized.
    Quote Originally Posted by tutusue View Post
    Once again...Please cite references that show the grandparents knew there'd be problems with their daughter's parenting skills prior to conceiving their daughter.
    Quote Originally Posted by SusieMisajon View Post
    Only if you show me how it can be known that the baby would've grown up to be problematic and should never have been allowed to be conceived.
    Huh? I don't consider you an ignorant person, Susie, but you're the one making ignorant statements. The onus is on you to back them up...not me.

  16. #166
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    Default Re: Toddler thrown onto freeway

    Quote Originally Posted by tutusue View Post
    Huh? I don't consider you an ignorant person, Susie, but you're the one making ignorant statements. The onus is on you to back them up...not me.
    I was simply trying to make the point that sterilization isn't the answer...but got rather caught up in my own answers to you. I guess I shoulda said, from the start. Sorry.

  17. #167
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    Default Re: Toddler thrown onto freeway

    Quote Originally Posted by GeckoGeek View Post
    And we've seen the results. Who's defending status quo? This is Hawaii State law. The legislature is in session. Seems like there's plenty of will to make changes.

    Higa should not have been in public. Cyrus was just a child close by.

    It's time for Cyrus' Law.
    But what, exactly, would Cyrus' Law be?

  18. #168

    Default Re: Toddler thrown onto freeway

    The original Letter to the Editor of Maui News I sent was to long to print.
    Here is the new revised letter. Hope it gets printed!!! I will do anything in my power to stand up and be a part of a "solution".




    The list of children who have died and nearly died from abuse and neglect in Hawaii continues to grow. Cyrus, Peter Boy, and Shari. I am the paternal grandmother who joyfully adopted Shari who was nearly beaten to death by her mother’s boyfriend in March of 2006.

    One of the common threads all these precious children had in common were families with histories involving CPS. In the nearly two year journey since Shari’s near death beating we have been involved with many medical and educational professionals they all say the same thing….reports of abuse are made, the child is taken for a short period and then placed right back into the home. During the LAST call I made to CPS reporting child abuse regarding Shari I was told by her social worker that it was noted in her case file she was “clumsy”. I told her I had pictures of Shari with bruising on her cheeks, rib cages, and arm…it didn’t matter. Less than three weeks later Shari was in PICU, on a ventilator, fighting for what little was left of her life. Skeletal x-rays of Shari’s tiny body showed previous rib fractures consistent with a “squeeze and twist” form of abuse. The pictures I had taken in Feb. of 2006 also consistent with child abuse. I have absolutely no desire to start a “personal war” with DHS. I do have the desire for DHS to hear my experience to hopefully initiate positive changes. The only one who interviewed me after Shari’s last beating was the social worker that I reported abuse to. Without change there will be no change. We will again read of yet another Cyrus, Peter Boy, and Shari…..it’s just a matter of time.

  19. #169

    Default Re: Toddler thrown onto freeway

    Ms. Koller suggests mandating family members report abuse and neglect? That was done in both Shari’s case and Cyrus’ case. When a CPS case is opened on a child it is the case worker that makes ALL decisions regarding the health, safety, and welfare of that child. Even if a family member reports abuse their hands are tied until the social worker acts on that report. After a family member reports child abuse they also risk the parent of that child denying any contact with that child leaving the child vulnerable to the once a month checks made by their social worker. It also needs to be understood that the abuse these children suffer is not readily visible. Broken ribs and fractured skulls cannot be seen but are often found in children that have been abused. I watched in horror for six months with my hands tied knowing if found out that I had reported abuse I would not be allowed to see my precious granddaughter again. She would have been striped of the only voice she had to protect her. The community needs to know that when they report abuse it will be acted on and quickly. They need to know that reporting abuse is not in vein but a step for a child to be protected. Cases where mothers have children placed in permanent custody only to have another child and start the cycle again is an issue that needs to be addressed not by the community but by DHS. The citizens of Hawaii need to offer their support by opening their homes to these children through foster care and adoption. If we want change we all need to support the change we ask for. I ask this…is there anyone who would have denied Cyrus a home in exchange for preventing his horrific death?

  20. #170
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    Default Re: Toddler thrown onto freeway

    I'm just joining the discussion here b/c it's been too painful for me to talk about. I've been journaling like crazy, and I've found it to be very therapeutic. I came here today b/c I wanted to read what peeps here had to say. Anyway, my two cents: it seems that better communication between all public safety agencies is a good place to start? It seems that everyone was trying the best with what they had. And, Matthew Higa is the one who committed the horrific crime. Therefore, he should be put away forever. Mental health facility, prison, whichever. But, I think what those who are focusing on the mother are trying to say is that if there had been that better communication between agencies, maybe Cyrus would have been removed from her care before Jan. 17. Then he wouldn't have been there for Matthew Higa to take...I'd like to know why, as a person who already had a documented child endangerment/drug abuse history, Chanco was able to keep custody of Cyrus after testing positive fo ice on Jan. 11? As a mother myself, I feel that Nancy Chanco should somehow be held accountable. I know she probably won't be held accountable, though. I've seen it before. I pray that she really uses this tragedy as a wake up call to turn her life around and finally get rehabilitated for good.

  21. #171

    Default Re: Toddler thrown onto freeway

    Quote Originally Posted by SusieMisajon View Post
    But what, exactly, would Cyrus' Law be?
    Good question. I don't have any specific suggestions, since we don't have the details of Higa's history and evaluation, but it would be something that would have kept Higa away from the public.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ipo View Post
    Cyrus would have been removed from her care before Jan. 17. Then he wouldn't have been there for Matthew Higa to take...
    So instead of Cyrus, it would be another child on another day that Higa harms? Sure it would prevent this exact incident, but I fail to see how it would prevented something similar. There's a day care in Dole Park close to the bridge.

    The mother left the child in the care of the Grandfather. The Grandfather took a nap. All that stuff of prior history and drug use has no bearing on what happened.

  22. #172
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    Default Re: Toddler thrown onto freeway

    The grandfather should be done for dereliction of duty, as he was taking a nap.

    How much longer are we gonna argue this?

  23. #173

    Default Re: Toddler thrown onto freeway

    Quote Originally Posted by PoiBoy View Post
    man a lot of you folks in this thread are just plain stupid.
    PoiBoy, since I do not consider you a troll, I have to ask why you would toss such a troll-esque burning comment like that into a heavily fuel-laden thread? Not asking what you mean by it, but rather why you would pop in with that style of post?

  24. #174

    Default Re: Toddler thrown onto freeway

    Quote Originally Posted by SusieMisajon View Post
    The grandfather should be done for dereliction of duty, as he was taking a nap.
    I'm sure it happens all the time. Is it bad enough to remove the child from the home? I don't think so.

  25. #175
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    Default Re: Toddler thrown onto freeway

    See, I don't necessarily think that it would have happened without easy access to Cyrus. If there are day care centers nearby, I'm assuming—yes I know it's dangerous to assume—that the adults there are a bit more attentive. I truly believe that Cyrus should have been removed from the home as soon as Chanco tested positive for meth on Jan. 11. I know that it's a simplistic answer, but hopefully with more funding, personnel, etc. that can happen in the future.

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