Page 8 of 11 FirstFirst ... 678910 ... LastLast
Results 176 to 200 of 272

Thread: Toddler thrown onto freeway

  1. #176
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    at the foot of at mountain
    Posts
    15

    Default Re: Toddler thrown onto freeway

    BTW, have you all heard about that Cyrus fund at BOH? This really bothered me...on KSSK this a.m. they got Lisa Belt, Cyrus' aunty, to come on the show and state that she opened the account to pay for his funeral and then will donate the money to some drug-rehab related charity. I think I'm still going to just donate money to another charity in his name instead...

  2. #177
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Wah-key'-key
    Posts
    10,390

    Default Re: Toddler thrown onto freeway

    Quote Originally Posted by SusieMisajon View Post
    The grandfather should be done for dereliction of duty, as he was taking a nap.

    How much longer are we gonna argue this?
    What exactly does "should be done" mean?

    Not everyone agrees with you, Susie, so I guess we're "gonna argue this" 'til we run out of steam. It's current. It's newsworthy. It's a hotly emotional issue. The public emotions on Oahu (and probably the rest of the state) are palpable. You live half way around the world. Many of us live or work within a very short distance of the crime. We see the makeshift memorial and it's visitors on a daily basis. Some of us know friends and family of Baby Cyrus.

    HawaiiThreads is a place to discuss/"argue"/dissect...whatever one wants to call it...current, newsworthy and hotly emotional stories. HT members have the freedom of choice to stay in the thread or ignore it.

    ETA: Altho' off topic the Janel and Cyrus stories are permeating the news. Yesterday afternoon I was behind an SUV driving down Queen St. in bumper to bumper traffic. It gave me time to notice and read the rear window of that car...a memorial tribute to Janel including her birthdate and DoD. Since it was so soon after her murder I'm guessing it might've been a family member. So incredibly sad.
    Last edited by tutusue; January 23rd, 2008 at 11:09 AM.

  3. #178

    Default Re: Toddler thrown onto freeway

    Quote Originally Posted by Ipo View Post
    BTW, have you all heard about that Cyrus fund at BOH? This really bothered me...on KSSK this a.m. they got Lisa Belt, Cyrus' aunty, to come on the show and state that she opened the account to pay for his funeral and then will donate the money to some drug-rehab related charity. I think I'm still going to just donate money to another charity in his name instead...
    If people would like to donate money to help abused children contact "Friends Of The Childrens Justice Center" in their area or island. They helped with a gift of a bedroom set for Shari. You can be assured that you're money sent to this organization WILL go to abused children.

  4. #179
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    at the foot of at mountain
    Posts
    15

    Default Re: Toddler thrown onto freeway

    Thanks so much for that advice. I'll do that...

  5. #180
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Wah-key'-key
    Posts
    10,390

    Default Re: Toddler thrown onto freeway

    Cheryl,
    Thank you so much for participating in, what must be for you, a very painful discussion. Your input and expertise are so valuable. I just wish you didn't have to become an expert. Give Shari a gentle, extra hug for me.

    tutusue

  6. #181
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    France
    Posts
    2,228

    Default Re: Toddler thrown onto freeway

    Quote Originally Posted by tutusue View Post
    What exactly does "should be done" mean?

    Not everyone agrees with you, Susie, so I guess we're "gonna argue this" 'til we run out of steam. It's current. It's newsworthy. It's a hotly emotional issue. The public emotions on Oahu (and probably the rest of the state) are palpable. You live half way around the world. Many of us live or work within a very short distance of the crime. We see the makeshift memorial and it's visitors on a daily basis. Some of us know friends and family of Baby Cyrus.

    HawaiiThreads is a place to discuss/"argue"/dissect...whatever one wants to call it...current, newsworthy and hotly emotional stories. HT members have the freedom of choice to stay in the thread or ignore it.

    ETA: Altho' off topic the Janel and Cyrus stories are permeating the news. Yesterday afternoon I was behind an SUV driving down Queen St. in bumper to bumper traffic. It gave me time to notice and read the rear window of that car...a memorial tribute to Janel including her birthdate and DoD. Since it was so soon after her murder I'm guessing it might've been a family member. So incredibly sad.

    What I meant was that it was all the grampa's fault, so HE should get the blame.

    Just because I'm not right there doesn't mean I'm not touched...surely you don't mean to imply that some are more equal than others in feeling the emotions of this case?

    What I meant about the arguing is that getting into fights about who is to blame serves nothing. Many people here have come up with good and perhaps valid ideas of why it happened and how it might have been prevented. But, until we manage to get inside the head of the man that actually did the thing, none of us will know for sure.

    In the meantime, I am wondering how much all of this will impact not only other families in the same situation with the child protection services, but also with any unfortunate, less 'guilty' family, who happens to make an honest mistake or error.

  7. #182
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Wah-key'-key
    Posts
    10,390

    Default Re: Toddler thrown onto freeway

    Quote Originally Posted by SusieMisajon View Post
    What I meant was that it was all the grampa's fault, so HE should get the blame.
    [...]
    What I meant about the arguing is that getting into fights about who is to blame serves nothing.
    [...]
    Hmmm...let's see...
    You blame the grandfather but don't want people to argue or get into fights about who they blame because it "serves nothing"? Do you not see the dichotomy in this?

    I'll offer my opinion...I do NOT blame the grandfather any more than I blame anyone else. It's ALL the grandfather's fault in your opinion? Oh Lordy...that statement is capable of inciting a riot!

  8. #183
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    France
    Posts
    2,228

    Default Re: Toddler thrown onto freeway

    So much for tongue-in-cheek.

  9. #184
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    living in sin in kaimuki w/mixedplatebroker
    Posts
    1,715

    Default Re: Toddler thrown onto freeway

    Quote Originally Posted by SusieMisajon View Post
    So much for tongue-in-cheek.
    yeah, and so much for admitting you're wrong when you're wrong, or admitting, at least, that you were sloppy in conveying your thoughts before posting. if you don't like that you're being challenged on what you say, then don't post them, or--as i prefer--be more thoughtful before hitting "submit reply." this isn't the first time you've posted so flippantly, and as a result, come off as rude and/or more. i'd be happy to be corrected if i'm wrong, but you've never owned up on your more insensitive and frankly, out-of-line posts (remember the one where you got up adrian's ass for inquiring about smart cars when he had just left his walmart job?), the ones on this thread included.

    long live the backpedal, apparently.
    superbia (pride), avaritia (greed), luxuria (lust), invidia (envy), gula (gluttony), ira (wrath) & acedia (sloth)--the seven deadly sins.

    "when you wake up in the morning, tell yourself: the people i deal with today will be meddling, ungrateful, arrogant, dishonest, jealous, and surly..."--meditations, marcus aurelius (make sure you read the rest of the passage, ya lazy wankers!)

    nothing humiliates like the truth.--me, in conversation w/mixedplatebroker re 3rd party, 2009-11-11, 1213

  10. #185
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    France
    Posts
    2,228

    Default Re: Toddler thrown onto freeway

    I wasn't backpedaling.

  11. #186
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    living in sin in kaimuki w/mixedplatebroker
    Posts
    1,715

    Default Re: Toddler thrown onto freeway

    Quote Originally Posted by SusieMisajon View Post
    I wasn't backpedaling.
    hmm. let's consider.

    Quote Originally Posted by SusieMisajon View Post
    The parents of the man that threw the baby off the bridge should have been sterilized.
    Quote Originally Posted by SusieMisajon View Post
    Ah. Let me rephrase that: The grandparents of the baby should have been sterilized.
    okay, that wasn't technically backpedalling. that's a complete rewriting.

    Quote Originally Posted by SusieMisajon View Post
    I was simply trying to make the point that sterilization isn't the answer...but got rather caught up in my own answers to you. I guess I shoulda said, from the start. Sorry.

    Quote Originally Posted by SusieMisajon View Post
    The grandfather should be done for dereliction of duty, as he was taking a nap.

    How much longer are we gonna argue this?
    Quote Originally Posted by SusieMisajon View Post
    What I meant was that it was all the grampa's fault, so HE should get the blame....

    What I meant about the arguing is that getting into fights about who is to blame serves nothing. Many people here have come up with good and perhaps valid ideas of why it happened and how it might have been prevented. But, until we manage to get inside the head of the man that actually did the thing, none of us will know for sure.

    there's a lot of "what i meant was" and "i should have said" and "i was trying to make the point that" there for someone who claims she isn't backpedalling.
    superbia (pride), avaritia (greed), luxuria (lust), invidia (envy), gula (gluttony), ira (wrath) & acedia (sloth)--the seven deadly sins.

    "when you wake up in the morning, tell yourself: the people i deal with today will be meddling, ungrateful, arrogant, dishonest, jealous, and surly..."--meditations, marcus aurelius (make sure you read the rest of the passage, ya lazy wankers!)

    nothing humiliates like the truth.--me, in conversation w/mixedplatebroker re 3rd party, 2009-11-11, 1213

  12. #187
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    France
    Posts
    2,228

    Default Re: Toddler thrown onto freeway

    You might understand it, if you begin with tongue-in-cheek. I was making a statement against sterilization.

  13. #188
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    East Coast USA
    Posts
    502

    Default Re: Toddler thrown onto freeway

    Quote Originally Posted by Originally Posted by pzarquon
    There are a few bridges that have such fencing, but the vast majority of them do not. I didn't think anything of it until visiting the East Coast and seeing bridges almost completely (and sometimes completely) enclosed. Or at least with 6' high fences that arch inward at the top.

    Quote Originally Posted by AlohaKine View Post
    I've seen this most often in high crime urban areas.
    All our interstate overpasses have the tall extended fencing. On my way to work I pass through an affluent community and their high school pedestrian overpass is enclosed.
    Lovena

  14. #189
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    living in sin in kaimuki w/mixedplatebroker
    Posts
    1,715

    Default Re: Toddler thrown onto freeway

    Quote Originally Posted by SusieMisajon View Post
    You might understand it, if you begin with tongue-in-cheek. I was making a statement against sterilization.
    that only works if people know that's the device you're using. and since no one did, whose fault is that?

    anyway, my point was made. i'd appreciate more clarity in your future posts, please. that way i can tell when you're being 'tongue in cheek' versus just 'out of line.' i'm sure there are more than a few who feel the same.
    superbia (pride), avaritia (greed), luxuria (lust), invidia (envy), gula (gluttony), ira (wrath) & acedia (sloth)--the seven deadly sins.

    "when you wake up in the morning, tell yourself: the people i deal with today will be meddling, ungrateful, arrogant, dishonest, jealous, and surly..."--meditations, marcus aurelius (make sure you read the rest of the passage, ya lazy wankers!)

    nothing humiliates like the truth.--me, in conversation w/mixedplatebroker re 3rd party, 2009-11-11, 1213

  15. #190
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Honolulu, HI, USA
    Posts
    7,326

    Red face Re: Toddler thrown onto freeway

    Our very own deep thinker scrivener has weighed in on Cyrus Belt's death and the city's response to it on his blog. He's unmoved, as he explains in the entry titled, "Shut the **** Up and Pay Some Social Workers":
    I don’t think it’s that I’m unfeeling: I think I’m responding in some way to the outpouring of sentiment. So many children are mistreated and living; so many of them are suffering every day and this state doesn’t care enough to pay social workers more money, and to hire more of them so that they can actually be effective at their jobs; yet this state is about to pay a football coach $1,100,000 dollars per year. Do you know how many CPS social workers you can pay with that kind of money? I just think everyone in this state has his or her priorities messed up.
    He moves from college football to dry erase markers to illustrate how teachers and CPS workers take too much criticism and get too little support.

    I try not to begrudge anyone their grief or how they express it, though as I've mentioned before I don't particularly like roadside memorials or car window tributes. I'm surprised myself how I've responded to the Miller Street display. I don't think I'd begrudge anyone whose shown up there for not thinking about or worrying about other, more important things. There's always something bigger to deal with... which is probably why humans tend to cling to the little things.

    I definitely think one reason people may feel drastically different about this tragedy is whether or not they're parents. I've certainly met others who are more perplexed at the response to the crime than the crime itself, but in general they're folks who've not had nightmares of losing their own kids in horrific ways.

  16. #191

    Default Re: Toddler thrown onto freeway

    Quote Originally Posted by Ipo View Post
    See, I don't necessarily think that it would have happened without easy access to Cyrus.
    That may be true. But the easy access was due to something that I bet happens even in functional families. In fact it happens every night when the parents go to sleep. The whole drug thing and past history is irrelevant.

    Without Higa, the worst that could happen is an accident. Something that happens all too often. Still sad, but no where near the results with Higa involved.

    Where I'm coming from is what do we as a society do, to change the system, to keep this from happening again? Do we remove the children from anyone who has a moment's inattention? That doesn't seem terribly practical. On the other hand, keeping crack-head weirdos like Higa off the street sure seems like a good move.




    Quote Originally Posted by SusieMisajon View Post
    What I meant was that it was all the grampa's fault, so HE should get the blame.
    ALL? So you'd let Higa off the hook?

    If it's all the parent's fault, why do we lock up pedophiles? These guys have their constitutional rights! The parents should be protecting their children!


    Quote Originally Posted by pzarquon View Post
    Our very own deep thinker scrivener has weighed in on Cyrus Belt's death and the city's response to it on his blog. He's unmoved, as he explains in the entry titled, "Shut the **** Up and Pay Some Social Workers"
    I'm not saying that won't do some good, but as I've pointed out above, I don't think it would have made as much of a difference in this situation as the public would like. Add beefing up the mental health system and I'm game. There are too many known mentaly deranged people out there.

  17. #192
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    at the foot of at mountain
    Posts
    15

    Default Re: Toddler thrown onto freeway

    Oh yes, I totally agree about the lack of support for the mentally ill—trust me, I have psychiatrists, psychologists, psych nurses and social workers within my circle of friends and family; and they're all frustrated about how their hands are tied in cases like this. You're right, the best thing would have been for Higa's dad to get him the help he needed right away. However, if the mental health professionals don't know about the adult and their current mental health status, they can't help him because he's an adult; and it's very hard to force an adult to get help. My point about Cyrus is that he is a child, and some professionals did know about his situation. I guess it's not (right now) considered an 'imminent danger' for a child to be in a household where the sole custodial parent has tested positive for meth or for a child to be walking down the middle of a road; but I believe it should be. I think, at the very least, had there been a more direct line of communication between the agencies involved, Cyrus would have been removed from the household, and then maybe—I said maybe—we wouldn't be having this discussion.

  18. #193
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    at the foot of at mountain
    Posts
    15

    Default Re: Toddler thrown onto freeway

    Sorry for the double-post earlier.
    Last edited by Ipo; January 24th, 2008 at 11:22 AM. Reason: I had posted the same comment twice

  19. #194
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    living in sin in kaimuki w/mixedplatebroker
    Posts
    1,715

    Default Re: Toddler thrown onto freeway

    hi, my name is cyn and i don't think that we, as a society, should be focusing on what could have been done to prevent this specific event from happening again. in other words, when considering solutions to the problems that led to the event of cyrus' death, we shouldn't be focused on the specific details of cyrus' death (whether a covered bridge would have prevented his death, for example).

    we should focus on coming up with, discussing, and implementing real solutions to deal with:

    1. the ice problem in general; indeed, the drug problem in general.

    2. ice addicts having children they cannot care for because of their addiction (and i agree with eric that we should discuss things like offering $$ iincentives to addicts to temporarily sterilize them--not a mandatory program, but a voluntary program).

    3. proper diagnosis & care for those who are mentally ill, whether they are inclined to violence or not (because sometimes you just can't tell), while recognizing that EVERY patient, mentally ill or not, has certain rights.

    4. supporting agencies like child protective and adult protective services (this is tied in to reducing brain drain in hawaii, for one thing, but it relates to other large issues we face in hawaii).

    well thanks for your time. =)

  20. #195
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Honolulu, Hawai'i
    Posts
    9,519

    Default Re: Toddler thrown onto freeway

    Quote Originally Posted by ericncyn View Post
    3. proper diagnosis & care for those who are mentally ill, whether they are inclined to violence or not (because sometimes you just can't tell), while recognizing that EVERY patient, mentally ill or not, has certain rights.
    http://www.hawaiithreads.com/showthr...Mental+Illness

    Mental Illness is TREATABLE!Open da bottle, put pill inside dee mouth, swallow with wata!

    Auntie Lynn
    Be AKAMAI ~ KOKUA Hawai`i!
    Philippians 4:13 --- I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.

  21. #196
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    at the foot of at mountain
    Posts
    15

    Default Re: Toddler thrown onto freeway

    Yes, you're right, we need to think of solutions...but focusing on details of a past event is how you find where you can improve. I think the quickest solution, for both the child endagerment issue and the mental health issue is to increase communication between agencies. The longer-term solution is more funding for our agencies that deal with these issues: CPS, DHS, mental health services, etc. Scrivner's right: we should pay our social workers more, and hire more social workers so that they can effectively do their jobs. That'll take money. I believe one of the state welfare agencies asked the Legislature for an additional $1 mil to fund one follow-up visit a year after a case is closed. I think that's a good place to start...
    Last edited by Ipo; January 24th, 2008 at 11:54 AM. Reason: forgot something!

  22. #197
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    East Coast USA
    Posts
    502

    Default Re: Toddler thrown onto freeway

    Quote Originally Posted by ericncyn View Post
    hi, my name is cyn and i don't think that we, as a society, should be focusing on what could have been done to prevent this specific event from happening again. in other words, when considering solutions to the problems that led to the event of cyrus' death, we shouldn't be focused on the specific details of cyrus' death (whether a covered bridge would have prevented his death, for example).
    Sorry, but I didn't state in any of my posts that a covered bridge could've prevented this boys death. Nor did I imply that it would.

    I originally brought up the topic because as I stated, I noticed the lack of fencing in comparison to the pedestrian and overpasses local to me. As a former engineer, structures catch my eye.
    Lovena

  23. #198
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    living in sin in kaimuki w/mixedplatebroker
    Posts
    1,715

    Default Re: Toddler thrown onto freeway

    Quote Originally Posted by EastCoastTropics View Post
    Sorry, but I didn't state in any of my posts that a covered bridge could've prevented this boys death. Nor did I imply that it would.

    I originally brought up the topic because as I stated, I noticed the lack of fencing in comparison to the pedestrian and overpasses local to me. As a former engineer, structures catch my eye.
    correct, you did not; my intent was not to imply that you made that implication, either. my apologies for not being clearer on that (it didn't help that i was posting on the mobile version of HT at the time so i could not be so detailed).

    i agree with pzarquon's post in the sense that sometimes we focus on the small things to the detriment of larger things, and so i wanted to refocus on the "larger things."
    superbia (pride), avaritia (greed), luxuria (lust), invidia (envy), gula (gluttony), ira (wrath) & acedia (sloth)--the seven deadly sins.

    "when you wake up in the morning, tell yourself: the people i deal with today will be meddling, ungrateful, arrogant, dishonest, jealous, and surly..."--meditations, marcus aurelius (make sure you read the rest of the passage, ya lazy wankers!)

    nothing humiliates like the truth.--me, in conversation w/mixedplatebroker re 3rd party, 2009-11-11, 1213

  24. #199
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    East Coast USA
    Posts
    502

    Default Re: Toddler thrown onto freeway

    Quote Originally Posted by ericncyn View Post
    correct, you did not; my intent was not to imply that you made that implication, either. my apologies for not being clearer on that (it didn't help that i was posting on the mobile version of HT at the time so i could not be so detailed).
    No prob....



    Quote Originally Posted by ericncyn View Post
    i agree with pzarquon's post in the sense that sometimes we focus on the small things to the detriment of larger things, and so i wanted to refocus on the "larger things."
    I agree and I also I think focus should be on making certain that the job gets done.

    Reading the HA..."Lingle said her administration is proposing a bill that would require family members to report child abuse or neglect. The administration also wants to spend $1.9 million on additional follow-up visits to children who been identified as at risk of abuse." Yes, this is a start, and like Ipo, I too agree with scrivener in that more social workers should be hired/paid more in order to do their jobs effectively.

    Also, as scrivener stated, "who are the state legislators you've identified as having consistently been supportive or proactive in advocating for the needs of children? Which would you say have been most harmful?" http://www.hawaiithreads.com/showthr...800#post181800


    Good point...I'd wanna know too.
    Lovena

  25. #200

    Default Re: Toddler thrown onto freeway

    Quote Originally Posted by pzarquon View Post
    Our very own deep thinker scrivener has weighed in on Cyrus Belt's death and the city's response to it on his blog. He's unmoved, as he explains in the entry titled, "Shut the **** Up and Pay Some Social Workers":He moves from college football to dry erase markers to illustrate how teachers and CPS workers take too much criticism and get too little support.
    I've read it too. Good stuff.

    Saying "shut the **** up and pay some social workers" is one way of shaking people up. My way is frankly saying, "Your outrage, concerns, and balloons/gifts for Cyrus are all a day late and a dollar short."

    Oh, I know. The public's reactions to this incident and their contributions to the overpass memorial are all well-intentioned and sincere. But if you want to get right down to it, none of it does Cyrus any good at this point. He's gone from this world and nothing that anyone does will ever bring him back. That may sound sound harsh, but it's true.

    But what me, Scriv, and others have been saying about hiring more social workers, paying them better, and giving them all the necessary resources and support so that they can do their jobs,..... these are the kinds of things that will do the most to help all of the thousands of at-risk children who are still living today. For these kids, it is not too late. Is it too much to ask for people to direct just a tiny bit of the concerns they display towards Cyrus Belt and Peter Boy Kema towards children who are living on the fringe right now? Or do those disadvantaged kids have to wait until they are dead and have their names/pictures plastered on the headlines until anyone does anything for them?
    This post may contain an opinion that may conflict with your opinion. Do not take it personal. Polite discussion of difference of opinion is welcome.

Page 8 of 11 FirstFirst ... 678910 ... LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •