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  • Re: Toddler thrown onto freeway

    Originally posted by timkona View Post
    40 years of psychotic liberalism has softened our penal system to the point where prisoners now have TV, Gyms, Hot Food, Mental Health Counseling, and better healthcare than the rest of the "free" nation.
    I know you are notorious on this board for your melodramatic exaggeration, Tim, but I’ll humor you. Can you give me an example of how inmates get better healthcare than the rest of us? I’m sure I’m not the only one who’s curious since Hawai‘i is considered the model prototype for the national healthcare system espoused by Bill Clinton, and later, Al Gore.

    We can’t be so fixated on our desire to preserve the rights of ordinary Americans.

    — U.S. President Bill Clinton
    USA TODAY, page 2A
    11 March 1993

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    • Re: Toddler thrown onto freeway

      hi this is sansei and i do agree that no child should've suffered this way when the criminal did something as bad as this and it's not good that someone like this matt higa did this to a innocent child who's life was just starting and it make's me sad.

      I was never on drug's only i had a mental breakdown and my parent's put me in a Psych Hospital and with my dr's help and my Med's im much better now and more stable.I Got to know people in this psych hospital worse than i was and one who was an anorexic passed on and she was the only kind one to me so I Thought to share this with everyone.

      well thank's for your time

      Comment


      • Re: Toddler thrown onto freeway

        Originally posted by glossyp View Post
        I just watched Sabrina Hall's (KGMB 9) interview with the mother and she admits that she has only been off ice since Cyrus' death. This was the first interview with Chanco where I got the impression she was really starting to understand what happened and she actually stated that she shares some of the responsibility for his death.

        Her interview confirmed what so many of us suspected after it took so long for her to get home the day of the murder....and after seeing her walk-in interview on the 10 o' clock news the day after. My heart aches for the baby and the senselessness of it all. At least he is in a better, safer place with all the other angels.

        Comment


        • Re: Toddler thrown onto freeway

          Originally posted by TuNnL View Post
          I know you are notorious on this board for your melodramatic exaggeration, Tim, but I’ll humor you. Can you give me an example of how inmates get better healthcare than the rest of us? I’m sure I’m not the only one who’s curious since Hawai‘i is considered the model prototype for the national healthcare system espoused by Bill Clinton, and later, Al Gore.
          He's got a point, tho. If organizations like the ACLU was even half as concerned about the welfare of public school students as they are about prisoners, how different our society would be.
          This post may contain an opinion that may conflict with your opinion. Do not take it personal. Polite discussion of difference of opinion is welcome.

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          • Re: Toddler thrown onto freeway

            Originally posted by Frankie's Market View Post
            It's easy to point fingers and criticize CPS for all of the cases they handled where the ending was tragic.

            When you demand that CPS EXCEED all minimum federal standards, how do you propose that this be done? Ultimately, it comes down to an unavoidable thing. MONEY. And where will that money be coming from? Every taxpayer in this state.

            At the same time too, how many of those people are willing "to put their money where their mouth is" on election day? More often than not, it's the candidates that promise to cut, cut, cut your taxes that get the votes. Not those that are honest enough to come out and say that we need to raise taxes to improve public services.

            I don't care how dedicated and skilled an assortment of social workers we have in Hawaii. Too many of them are overloaded with cases and can't provide the level of monitoring that is needed. And the only to remedy that is to hire MORE social workers. And that costs more money.

            What happened to Cyrus Belt is a tragedy. And all the finger-pointing and second-guessing won't bring him back. The best thing we can hope for from this ordeal is that Cyrus will be inspiration for positive change and reform, not only in the way in which our state govt. handles social services, but in the attitudes of society in general.

            Remember. It took the tragic rape and murder of Megan Kanka to enact what is now commonly known as Megan's Law.
            I think it's a matter of priority. When resources are scarce, you have to decide what's most important. For instance, is it more important to upgrade Aloha Stadium so that the Warriors have a nicer place to play football, or is it more important to upgrade the structures of the school itself so it can attract better teachers and students?

            Another example: is it better to just say "we're doing the best we can" and pat ourselves on the back, fully knowing that more can and should be done to protect Hawaii's keiki at risk, as DOH Director Koller did recently, using Shari Rodriguez as an example?

            Another example: is it more important to force family reunification when there is clear evidence that the birth parents are either unwilling or somehow incapable of safely raising their children? Particularly if older children from these parents are already in the care of the State system?

            Tragically, Hawaii is not the only State that has issues with the way its governmental agencies protect (or don't) at-risk children. There are horror stories every day about the abuse that children, who didn't ask to be born, are subjected to. What really makes the whole thing so sad is many of the female abusers are virtual baby factories (like Nancy Chanco and Shari's birth mom) who will get pregnant at the drop of a hat, while there are hundreds of infertile couples who would love to be parents and who would have the resources and love to nurture these young souls but who have to wait for years to be able to adopt or who have to go outside the country to find children to adopt.

            I think any child's young life is worth protecting and nurturing, and not putting them into dangerous situations where either their psychic or physical health can be damaged.
            Last edited by Miulang; January 20, 2008, 06:42 PM.
            "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

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            • Re: Toddler thrown onto freeway

              Originally posted by Miulang View Post
              I think any child's young life is worth protecting and nurturing, and not putting them into dangerous situations where either their psychic or physical health can be damaged.
              Miulang, nobody's going to argue against that. The question nobody's answering is HOW this is supposed to be accomplished. It's easy to accuse CPS of not doing everything it could to save these children, but what was it supposed to do? A kid removed from parental custody is supposed to be sent where, now? Is your door wide open for foster parenting, and for all the responsibilities that commitment brings? Mine isn't. And you can't just lock her up -- she hasn't done anything wrong. And if there's some relative somewhere willing to take the kid, who's going to do all the screening and counseling and training that foster parents are first required to go through? And if that relative lives outside the child's school district, are we going to yank the kid out of school and force a transfer? And who's going to pick the kid up a couple of times every week to make sure she gets to doctor's appointments and counseling sessions? And who's going to do all the ridiculous amounts of paperwork you never hear about on the news but do hear about from social workers and their aides all the time?

              Yes, we need more social workers, but who's signing up to be social workers? When I think about what an MSW often has to go through and what he or she gets in return, I can't believe there are ANY MSWs actually doing social work, because I don't think I could take it. We can get as outraged as we want, and we can yell at our legislators, but the truth is that our legislators enact the laws we want enacted; they spend money on the projects we want put into motion. And we don't give a rip about CPS and its other (often private and non-profit) social agency partners.
              But I'm disturbed! I'm depressed! I'm inadequate! I GOT IT ALL! (George Costanza)
              GrouchyTeacher.com

              Comment


              • Re: Toddler thrown onto freeway

                Originally posted by scrivener View Post
                Miulang, nobody's going to argue against that. The question nobody's answering is HOW this is supposed to be accomplished.
                First off, teaching about responsible parenting has got to start when the kids are still in school and trainable. I was watching an episode of "The Suite Life of Zack and Cody" (Disney channel) where as a class assignment, Maddy and London were required to "parent" a doll, and the ensuing problems they had (fatigue, anger, jealousy, physical harm to the child, etc.).

                By the end of the show, when London and Maddy handed the doll back to the Sister, it was bandaged up and missing a limb or two, and the girls told the nun they knew they would get Fs for the assignment. The nun smiled and said, no, on the contrary, because they said they now knew they were too young to become parents, they had passed the test with flying colors! Can you imagine if real school age kids had that kind of assignment in their health class how many would decide not to become parents while they were in high school?

                Is the life of a child worth more than a football stadium? I think so. Being a social worker is an extremely difficult job because not only do you have physical demands placed on you, there are psychic burdens that can become overwhelming if you don't learn coping mechanisms as well. And yes, they are way underpaid for their level of expertise and responsibility, just as teachers are underpaid.
                "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

                Comment


                • Re: Toddler thrown onto freeway

                  Originally posted by Miulang View Post
                  First off, teaching about responsible parenting has got to start when the kids are still in school and trainable. I was watching an episode of "The Suite Life of Zack and Cody" (Disney channel) where as a class assignment, Maddy and London were required to "parent" a doll, and the ensuing problems they had (fatigue, anger, jealousy, physical harm to the child, etc.). ... Can you imagine if real school age kids had that kind of assignment in their health class how many would decide not to become parents while they were in high school?
                  Have you ever heard of this? It used to be called "Baby Think it Over," but it seems to have been renamed. A school I used to teach at assigns one of these babies to every Junior during health class; each junior is a parent for a whole week. A chip in the baby records data, such as how long after it starts crying it takes for a parent to respond, and how many times the baby's head is allowed to fall back while being picked up. A teacher can even set the baby's temperament. The first semester the school tried this project, one student's baby was set at "colicky," and the poor student got almost no sleep over that first weekend, until the teacher was able to adjust the settings. I don't know if I think these projects are THAT effective, but it does provide a lot of discussion for the students and their families and teachers.

                  And yes, they are way underpaid for their level of expertise and responsibility, just as teachers are underpaid.
                  Oh, stop trying to make nice!
                  I very deliberately kept teachers out of the discussion in my previous post, but you can be assured that I was tempted more than once!
                  But I'm disturbed! I'm depressed! I'm inadequate! I GOT IT ALL! (George Costanza)
                  GrouchyTeacher.com

                  Comment


                  • Re: Toddler thrown onto freeway

                    Originally posted by scrivener View Post
                    Have you ever heard of this? It used to be called "Baby Think it Over," but it seems to have been renamed. A school I used to teach at assigns one of these babies to every Junior during health class; each junior is a parent for a whole week. A chip in the baby records data, such as how long after it starts crying it takes for a parent to respond, and how many times the baby's head is allowed to fall back while being picked up. A teacher can even set the baby's temperament. The first semester the school tried this project, one student's baby was set at "colicky," and the poor student got almost no sleep over that first weekend, until the teacher was able to adjust the settings. I don't know if I think these projects are THAT effective, but it does provide a lot of discussion for the students and their families and teachers.


                    Oh, stop trying to make nice!
                    I very deliberately kept teachers out of the discussion in my previous post, but you can be assured that I was tempted more than once!
                    Yes, that is PRECISELY the kind of program I mean. And you're right. It may not work with every kid, but I guarantee that every kid who ends up with a "colicky" doll will NEVER forget the experience! LOL

                    Any individual who has responsibility for the nurturing and protection of young people is worth his/her weight in gold because they are ensuring the future of our country in this way. And I mean that sincerely. No bribe necessary.
                    "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

                    Comment


                    • Re: Toddler thrown onto freeway

                      Originally posted by Frankie's Market View Post
                      He's got a point, tho. If organizations like the ACLU was even half as concerned about the welfare of public school students as they are about prisoners, how different our society would be.
                      What makes you assume that the ACLU is less than half as concerned about the welfare of public school students as they are about prisoners? I haven't studied a list of issues taken up by the ACLU nationwide, much less in Hawaii, but I do know the ACLU recently co-counseled with Lawyers for Equal Justice on the McKinney-Vento lawsuit (for equal access to education for homeless children) http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/ap...711070410/1001 No argument ~ the ACLU has made its bones defending civil rights for everyone, no matter how unpopular or unsympathetic. I suspect that they tend to take special interest in cases that are particularly unpopular or unsympathetic because of a lack of other people or organizations who will take on those causes. I don't agree with the ACLU on everything but I do think they've made our community better (if nothing else than for vigorously providing alternate views and challenging the more easily accepted views from time to time) but they're not responsible for fixing every social ill.

                      The problem with the seeking to place blame, as natural an impulse as that may be, is that it often ends up with fingers pointing at everyone else, no matter how tenuously connected, rather than focusing back on personal reponsibility and on everyone doing what they can to improve matters rather than armchair quarterbacking and expecting someone else to fix matters.
                      Last edited by Adri; January 20, 2008, 08:11 PM.

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                      • Re: Toddler thrown onto freeway

                        This is going to sound insensitive but this is how I really feel:
                        I don't feel sorry for that mom - I only feel for poor Cyrus. That stupid evil woman hurt her child with her bad parenting and pathetic drug addiction. I hope that she rots in the hottest part of hell for eternity! When I saw her interview - I wanted to throw up at her ingenuous and apathetic responses. She was shedding crocodile tears and she deserves to go to jail.

                        Comment


                        • Re: Toddler thrown onto freeway

                          Originally posted by timkona View Post
                          40 years of psychotic liberalism has softened our penal system to the point where prisoners now have TV, Gyms, Hot Food, Mental Health Counseling, and better healthcare than the rest of the "free" nation. Threats of jailtime no longer carry any deterrent. There are many basic things that prisoners do NOT need.....Hot food, clothing, blankets, mattresses, TV, gyms, etc etc etc.

                          Blaming Ice for every problem is the classic Straw Man Argument. These types of positions are frequently held by people who carry lots of fear, and very little knowledge, in their lives. The entire War on Drugs is a total waste.

                          As far as the "adults" connected to the situation....they all suck. Their life of torment is not a worthy enough punishment.

                          Perhaps I am a "helicopter parent" (never heard that before) of a 6 year old. I come from a father who was on me like white on rice 24/7, back in the day when liberals had not yet villified a good ass whipping. Lord knows I deserved them all.

                          As for Cyrus, may he rest in peace

                          Whatever happened to "TWENTY YEARS AT HARD LABOR?" Can't have that these days because it constitutes "cruel and unusual punishment!"

                          Comment


                          • Re: Toddler thrown onto freeway

                            I know a lot of people have really strong feelings over Cyrus but I would hope that if I ever had a child who died tragically, I would be spared the rampant speculation, scrutiny of every detail of my life and all the mistakes I have made, and harsh judgment from the mass of the public, most of whom only know what was reported in the news (which may or may not be accurate) or what's going through the rumor mill (which has been less than reliable), at the time of my greatest loss and grieving. It seems clear from the news (since I have no personal knowledge and had not even heard of this family or Matthew Higa before that sad day) that Cyrus' mother made mistakes and bad decisions in her personal life but it's not clear to me that she's evil or faking her grief or that she's actually responsible for Cyrus' death. For those with children, how many have never, ever left their children in the care of family or good friends? How many have never, ever fallen asleep with a child in the house? Less common but still not unheard of, how many people have children who have never wandered away without their immediately realizing it and preventing it? It would be different for me if there was proof that the mother actually abused Cyrus and it lead to his death or if she left him unattended carelessly or abandoned him on some street corner and he was killed. We all feel sorry for Cyrus but, for me, there aren't enough proven facts available (and those facts may never be available to the general public) to wholesale condemn the mother for the death of her child. There's time enough for judgment and blame after the investigating is done (and I do believe this will be thoroughly investigated with all the attention the matter has received).
                            Last edited by Adri; January 20, 2008, 10:25 PM.

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                            • Re: Toddler thrown onto freeway

                              The amount of resources (our tax dollars) being used to "reunite" far exceeds what would be paid out in foster care payments. A social worker told me this just before she quit because "she couldn't take it anymore". She also said there had been a study done to confirm these findings, although I doubt the public would ever be allowed access to this info.

                              In Shari's case CPS was supposedly unaware of Shari's first trip to the ER after reunification with the first of a series of head traumas. CPS is suppose to be notified of any hospital or doctor visits outside of normal "well baby/child " visits by parents or foster parents. One simple question upon entering the ER...is there an open CPS case with this child. If there is a quick call even to leave a message could save a childs life or the possibility of that child facing more abuse. This question should not upset a parent...unless there is something to hide.

                              The 4 time felon on parole until 2011 that nearly beat Shari to death on March 15th 2006 had been arrested in December of 2005 for DUI. The children were in the car at the time of his arrest and he to was on the CPS case involving Shari. Isn't it considered child endangerment driving drunk with children in the car? Not to mention CPS involvement and being on parole! Communication needed between MPD, parole officers and CPS. Cost??? The time it would take to make a phone call.

                              A law mandating that social workers document any/all calls of abuse or suspected abuse. During the last call I made to Shari's social worker in Feb of 2006 telling her about brusing on Shari's face, rib cages, and arm I was told it was noted in Shari's case that she was "clumsy". I told her I had pictures of the brusing....it didn't matter. When the child abuse expert looked at my photo's of Shari I was told they were classic brusing patterns of child abuse. It was to late at that point. Shari was in Kapiolani Hospital PICU on a ventalator.

                              Here are just three suggestions from my personal experience that could have completely changed the out come for Shari. Simple things.

                              Comment


                              • Re: Toddler thrown onto freeway

                                "A law mandating that social workers document any/all calls of abuse or suspected abuse. During the last call I made to Shari's social worker in Feb of 2006 telling her about brusing on Shari's face, rib cages, and arm I was told it was noted in Shari's case that she was "clumsy". I told her I had pictures of the brusing....it didn't matter. When the child abuse expert looked at my photo's of Shari I was told they were classic brusing patterns of child abuse. It was to late at that point. Shari was in Kapiolani Hospital PICU on a ventalator. " /snip

                                I am so so sorry for what Shari went through. We do have a mandatory reporting law http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscur...-0001_0001.htm which I believe requires social workers (and health care providers and teachers, among other people) to report suspected child abuse to the police or the Department of Human Services and sets forth a procedure for the reporting and documenting. It seems in Shari's case the system broke down in the implementing of the existing law.

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