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  • #76
    Re: Toddler thrown onto freeway

    Originally posted by InfinityProductions View Post
    HIGA has still not been charged, although there's little doubt that he's guilty of something.
    As of last night, he's been charged with one count of 2nd degree murder.

    Originally posted by InfinityProductions View Post
    CHANCO's behavior throughout this entire situation is questionable, and has traits and characteristics of addict behavior.

    I certainly will not blame the agencies for any failure to intervene, and will NOT blame myself for anything involving this situation. Ultimately, the blame falls upon the parents who made their own choice to have a child. They're the ones who failed, period.

    This is obviously a family plagued in crime and drugs, they're behavior cannot be judged on the norms, but you need to factor in addict behavior.
    Certainly, what you say about the baby's family is true. At the very least, both parents had so much personal trouble that they couldn't even take care of themselves, let alone little Cyrus.

    Neither were the rest of the families able/willing to provide adequate care for this child. This is just one of those situations where, perhaps, this particular boy had very little chance for a happy, normal life. Despite all the efforts of our government and charitable institutions, not every child can be saved.

    I can understand the mother for making some irrational statements in the midst of this unimaginable trauma. But later on when emotions have calmed and the killer is sentenced, if she has any conscious at all,.... she will have to think about her part in this tragedy. If Cyrus wasn't at the mercy of some crazed person, who's to say that he wouldn't have died or been endangered in some other way due to parental neglect? It happens all too often.

    At the same time too, let's not mitigate the role played by Matthew Higa. Yes, his victim was the helpless infant of a deeply troubled family. But does that make him any less of a menace to society than Adam Mau-Goffredo (the Tantulus killer), whose victims were a middle class couple and a taxi driver? Both men had histories of mental/emotional instability and drug use. Despite this, I feel that both of them should be held accountable for their actions by being locked away permanently, whether it be in prison or in a hospital.
    This post may contain an opinion that may conflict with your opinion. Do not take it personal. Polite discussion of difference of opinion is welcome.

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    • #77
      Re: Toddler thrown onto freeway

      Originally posted by Frankie's Market View Post
      As of last night, he's been charged with one count of 2nd degree murder.
      I just read the article, not so sure why it's 2nd degree (not a law expert) but the little that I know it needs to be premeditated. It wasn't?


      Originally posted by Frankie's Market View Post
      Despite this, I feel that both of them should be held accountable for their actions by being locked away permanently, whether it be in prison or in a hospital.
      I agree.
      ___
      "Be god to each other."

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      • #78
        Re: Toddler thrown onto freeway

        On tonight's news, KHON2 had an exclusive interview with Cyrus' mother and her boyfriend, and how the events unfolded that day. See it again tonight at 10pm.

        It's heartbreaking.
        sigpic The Tasty Island

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        • #79
          Re: Toddler thrown onto freeway

          Originally posted by Miulang View Post
          It's not just Hawaii.
          Clearly not, but we arguably have a bigger problem than any other state. Nearly 50% of murders in Hawaii are meth related. I remember reading in the Advertiser a few years back that 40% of people arrested in Honolulu test positive for meth. Its nothing short of an epidemic, and it contributes heavily to domestic violence.

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          • #80
            Re: Toddler thrown onto freeway

            Originally posted by dleuck View Post
            Clearly not, but we arguably have a bigger problem than any other state.
            I would contest this without real data. I have little doubt that there is an ice problem, but until someone shows me some reliable numbers, I am suspicious that it is as bad as many claim. It's easy for politicians, businesspeople, clergy people, and others with some kind of social agenda to cry "ice" the way Chicken Little cried about the sky's falling. Easier, in fact, since nobody's going to defend ice, and since we've all seen what some of the consequences are.

            Nearly 50% of murders in Hawaii are meth related.
            This is one of those stats that doesn't make sense to me. I've heard similar. When people say that 50% of murders are ice-related, and ice is therefore a problem, what I want to know is: What would they like the murders to be attributable to? We are going to have a number of murders no matter what; the fact that half of them are caused by one thing is meaningless, or at least all by itself it doesn't point to anything.

            I remember reading in the Advertiser a few years back that 40% of people arrested in Honolulu test positive for meth. Its nothing short of an epidemic, and it contributes heavily to domestic violence.
            I find this nearly impossible to believe. As for the "nothing short of an epidemic" part, I think you are speaking figuratively, but in case you aren't, how are you defining "epidemic?"

            I have spoken to police officers who agree that ice and domestic violence cause them all kinds of problems, but were domestic violence problems fewer before ice existed? I am not sure I believe it. I might believe that they are more severe, but my impressions would all be anecdotal. How can ice be more a cause of domestic violence than alcohol or poverty or a society that glorifies violence?
            But I'm disturbed! I'm depressed! I'm inadequate! I GOT IT ALL! (George Costanza)
            GrouchyTeacher.com

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            • #81
              Re: Toddler thrown onto freeway

              Originally posted by dleuck View Post
              People don't like to talk about it, but we have a serious problem with meth _and_ domestic violence in Hawaii. Higa is yet another case of a meth head flipping out. He and the jerk that beat his girlfriend with a shotgun need to be delt with in the harshest manner possible. We need to set an example. This is not acceptable in our state!
              The humane thing is to bring capital punishment back.

              Personally, I go for cruel and unusual punishment.
              Beijing 8-08-08 to 8-24-08

              Tiananmen Square 4-15-89 to 6-04-89

              Comment


              • #82
                Re: Toddler thrown onto freeway

                Originally posted by dleuck View Post
                He and the jerk that beat his girlfriend with a shotgun need to be delt with in the harshest manner possible. We need to set an example. This is not acceptable in our state!
                If you advocate harsher punishments because the crimes call for them, I can understand even though I disagree. What I don't understand is how you think harsher penalties serve as an "example" to others who might smoke ice. Nobody puts that pipe in his or her mouth without being pretty dang aware of the consequences. We've all seen the "after" picture -- especially those of us who know other ice-smokers. This does not deter users from using any more than the death penalty deters people from killing. Harsher penalties will make us feel better, but they won't result in fewer ice-related crimes.
                But I'm disturbed! I'm depressed! I'm inadequate! I GOT IT ALL! (George Costanza)
                GrouchyTeacher.com

                Comment


                • #83
                  Re: Toddler thrown onto freeway

                  Originally posted by scrivener View Post
                  If you advocate harsher punishments because the crimes call for them, I can understand even though I disagree. What I don't understand is how you think harsher penalties serve as an "example" to others who might smoke ice. Nobody puts that pipe in his or her mouth without being pretty dang aware of the consequences. We've all seen the "after" picture -- especially those of us who know other ice-smokers. This does not deter users from using any more than the death penalty deters people from killing. Harsher penalties will make us feel better, but they won't result in fewer ice-related crimes.
                  Personally, you can't save meth-heads. Sure there are survivor's stories of former addicts turning their lives around, but not all of them can be saved nor do they want to be.
                  Beijing 8-08-08 to 8-24-08

                  Tiananmen Square 4-15-89 to 6-04-89

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Re: Toddler thrown onto freeway

                    Originally posted by memorylane View Post
                    If I had a few wishes, one would be to live to see vigilant justice legal. I would come back to the island to tear that mans arms off.
                    I'm not sure why, but I don't feel that way about this case. It seems to me this guy is just plain nuts and needs to be locked away. Now, if you're thinking of inviting Tunoa to the party, count me in.


                    Originally posted by InfinityProductions View Post
                    This morning, my sister asked me what I interpreted as "person of interest" with respect to HPD questioning both the mother and her boyfriend, and I said, "No one said the child was struggling or reacting to the situation, rather they describe the child as a doll."

                    It makes me uncomfortable to raise suspicion, but sick from the thought that there may be truth.
                    A twist worthy of a CSI plot.


                    Originally posted by InfinityProductions View Post
                    On KHON 2 10 p.m. news cast an unexpected visit from Nancy Asiata who agreed to an interview. I don't know about any of you, but I would be too hysterically crushed to get dressed and do an interview!
                    Different people act different ways. She may be in a state of shock. The emotions haven't hit yet. I've had deaths in my family, and my immediate reaction has been more along the lines of "ok, so what do we do now?". Or to sit with family and talk, to help cement treasured memories.


                    Originally posted by Nords View Post
                    Sounds like you just passed the "Who's leaking to the media?" pop quiz...
                    I was thinking the same thing. In the intelligence business, when there's a problem with a leak, you spread different stories to different people and see which version turns up. Then you know.



                    Originally posted by scrivener View Post
                    I am suspicious that it is as bad as many claim. It's easy for politicians, businesspeople, clergy people, and others with some kind of social agenda to cry "ice" the way Chicken Little cried about the sky's falling.
                    Ah, the politics of problems.

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Re: Toddler thrown onto freeway

                      Originally posted by scrivener View Post
                      I would contest this without real data. I have little doubt that there is an ice problem, but until someone shows me some reliable numbers, I am suspicious that it is as bad as many claim.

                      (clip)

                      I find this nearly impossible to believe.
                      So did I, but those are the official numbers from HPD and the Justice Department. This 2002 article from the advertiser references these stats:
                      http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/ar.../ln/ln02a.html

                      Quote:
                      "40 percent of people arrested by police in Honolulu tested positive for methamphetamine use, according to a Justice Department report."

                      Google "Hawaii meth" and you will find all the numbers you need.

                      > I think you are speaking figuratively, but in case you aren't, how are
                      > you defining "epidemic?"

                      The same way as my good friend Webster:
                      A. affecting or tending to affect a disproportionately large number of individuals within a population
                      B. excessively prevalent

                      (B)

                      > How can ice be more a cause of domestic violence than alcohol or poverty or a society that glorifies
                      > violence?

                      This is a good question, but its clear psychostimulants like methamphetamine hook people much faster than alcohol and cause violence and depression very, very quickly.
                      Last edited by dleuck; January 20, 2008, 01:37 AM. Reason: adding info

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                      • #86
                        Re: Toddler thrown onto freeway

                        Originally posted by Random View Post
                        The humane thing is to bring capital punishment back.

                        Personally, I go for cruel and unusual punishment.
                        Personally, I only advocate capital punishment for excessive use of sarcasm ;-). I don't recall having said anything about capital punishment.

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Re: Toddler thrown onto freeway

                          I just got through reading through the records that were released for public viewing on the DHS website and was saddened to read through all the reports. As late as 1/11/08, a referral was made to CPS, the case was reffered for "Voluntary Case Management" and was assigned on 1/14 to a case manager. A call was made by HPD at 11:00 a.m. on the morning of 1/17 to see if the case manager had made contact with the mother yet. How ironic is it that within an hour of that call, that innocent baby's life was taken? What, if anything, will be learned from this tragedy? My heart aches just thinking about the events of the past week.

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                          • #88
                            Re: Toddler thrown onto freeway

                            Originally posted by Frankie's Market View Post
                            I feel that both of them should be held accountable for their actions by being locked away permanently, whether it be in prison or in a hospital.
                            I was opposed to the death penalty for a long time. Incidents like this made me reconsider my position. There’s a lot of talk about solving our prison overcrowding crisis and unsafe conditions at our mental facilities. By placing people we know are a threat to society among people convicted of lesser crimes or who are more mentally and emotionally stable, we punish those who might otherwise be rehabilitated. More often than not, you become what you see every day. IMHO, murder is not an offense that a person can be rehabilitated from. It’s something they must pay their debt to society for.

                            We can’t be so fixated on our desire to preserve the rights of ordinary Americans.

                            — U.S. President Bill Clinton
                            USA TODAY, page 2A
                            11 March 1993

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                            • #89
                              Re: Toddler thrown onto freeway

                              Mike Leidemann does a fine job with his story in today's Advertiser. What I want to know is, if CPS knew Cyrus was at such risk, why couldn't they do anything about it? How many other kids in similar situations remain with their families? Is the load so heavy that there is no place to put the kids? I might know one or two people who foster children. I certainly don't have time to do that. Who does? Is that the answer?
                              Aloha from Lavagal

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                              • #90
                                Re: Toddler thrown onto freeway

                                Originally posted by lavagal View Post
                                What I want to know is, if CPS knew Cyrus was at such risk, why couldn't they do anything about it? How many other kids in similar situations remain with their families? Is the load so heavy that there is no place to put the kids?
                                I think it's because, whether explicitly stated or simply as a matter of fact, the ideal end result for a CPS case is the reunification of the family, not its disassembly. For every case like this that makes the news -- where people ask, "Why did they get to keep their kids?" -- there are dozens of cases where the families involved earnestly believe that interventions and adverse actions are too aggressive and equally damaging.

                                I would suspect that the struggle with CPS caseload has less to do with places to put "seized" kids as it does consistent monitoring of open cases. Of which there are sadly many.

                                We hate it when the government gets up in our business. Except when we demand that it should have. CPS will, I'm sure, make a convenient scapegoat for a community that already hates bureaucracy. But in the natural race to assign blame, I'm hoping people continue to focus more on those that posed a direct and ultimately fatal threat to this kid, and not those that, however ineffectively, were on his side.

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