The Bystander Effect?

[craigwatanabe]

Call me cold and heartless, but if you consider killing someone, why not just do yourself in instead? I just don't get it.

Because it's not as painful to kill someone else. There was an incident a few years ago (maybe decades) of another man in Waikiki fatally beating his ex-girlfriend while MANY bystanders watched helplessly in a nightclub one night.

I shrug when I read these things. I know they guy was huge and could possibly kill anybody trying to help those women, but at least do something like throw a rock at the guy and run away, anything to buy time for the police to get there before death occurs.

I'm sure many witnesses are saying to themselves today, "I could have" or "I should have" done something to have saved that poor girl's life. Thank God there was at least that one neighbor who tried to intervene. He didn't succeed but at least he can sleep tonight knowing he tried.

[zff]

Re: H1 Closed Waialae to Pali

A lot of times when I read stories like that, I think the same thing. Why didn't anyone try to help? This time, however, the guy had a shotgun. I don't think it's reasonable to expect anyone to try and stop an armed madman.

[craigwatanabe]

Re: H1 Closed Waialae to Pali

If a car were about to explode and someone was still inside trying to get out, I'd risk my life to save theirs.

If a man is beating the crap out of a woman with a loaded shotgun, I'd risk my life to save her too.

I've been in the victim's position before getting pummelled while "friends" watched. It's a deep burning conviction within me to help if I'm there to do so.

The man who killed that girl was a coward because he picked on someone who couldn't defend herself. If I stood there and did nothing...I'm one too. Sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do in life. Some do something...others do nothing. And we all have to live with our decisions.

[kiwidiva]

Re: H1 Closed Waialae to Pali

i've been in the situation where i saw a couple arguing with the words escalating into shoving and grabbing - i did intervene by telling the guy to lay off and moving closer to physically stop him only to have the girl turn on ME!

even police say that domestic disputes are among the most difficult for them to deal with.

i realize in this case a woman was being beaten to death by a 6 foot 2, 300+ pound angry samoan with a shotgun. unless you were to run him down with your car or shoot him with your own weapon - you wouldn't be able to stop him and could end up dead yourself.

he was already killing a woman he supposedly "loved" - he would have no problem finishing you off too!

i commend the man who did get involved and truly believe that he is a hero but i don't blame those onlookers. unless they charged him as a group, their efforts would have been useless.

my husband, a 6 foot 2, 200+ pound samoan said he would have had reservations about jumping into that situation - unless he knew the woman (that might be enough to turn him into an ANGRY samoan). my husband is no wimp and is a hero too but he concedes that when he was in iraq - at least he had a gun to protect himself with.

i would like to think that i would try to do something but i really won't know unless i'm in that situation. i hope i never am.

[sophielynette]

Re: H1 Closed Waialae to Pali

i would like to think that i would try to do something but i really won't know unless i'm in that situation. i hope i never am.

I think this is the key issue. We can say all we want about what other people should have done or what we would have done, but unless you're actually in that situation, there's no way of knowing how one will react.


And then there's the Bystander Effect. Studies have shown that people are less likely to help someone if other people are present because they figure someone else will intervene. The most famous instance of this is the Kitty Genovese murder.

[i-hungry]

Re: The Bystander Effect?

If you had a shotgun at that scene then would you
1) threaten him to stop
2) hit him with the shotgun
3) just shot the guy
4) <fill in the blank>

[acousticlady]

Re: H1 Closed Waialae to Pali

i've been in the situation where i saw a couple arguing with the words escalating into shoving and grabbing - i did intervene by telling the guy to lay off and moving closer to physically stop him only to have the girl turn on ME!

Many years ago my husband and I were at a parade when a guy started to go after this girl. She's yelling "Help me! He's going to kill me" at the top of her lungs. My husband stepped in to help her only to heave her turn on him too. In fact, she started yelling "Rape" pointing at my husband. A cop came running right away and started to haul my husband off. Luckily, there was a large crowd (and I was right there) so we got it straightened out. But, unfortunately, we now think twice before intervening in a domestic situation.

[Random]

Re: The Bystander Effect?

I'm sure many witnesses are saying to themselves today, "I could have" or "I should have" done something to have saved that poor girl's life. Thank God there was at least that one neighbor who tried to intervene. He didn't succeed but at least he can sleep tonight knowing he tried.

Perhaps, but the shotgun could have been loaded and the lardass could have shot the 69-year-old man. If that's the case, he would sleep a long time.

Then again, 69 years is a life already lived.

[GeckoGeek]

Re: The Bystander Effect?

If you had a shotgun at that scene then would you
1) threaten him to stop
2) hit him with the shotgun
3) just shot the guy
4) <fill in the blank>

Well, I'd sure like to know the laws, (if I owned a gun I'd be sure to know them), but I think I'd go for #3.

I think this is one of the worst possible situations where the perp had a shotgun. You'd either need a gun or be on his 6 with a baseball bat. Nothing else really has much of a chance.

[timkona]

Re: The Bystander Effect?

Also known as Group Apathy when I learned about it in college during EMT courses. In one on one situations, the healthy person will nearly always save the life of the seriously injured. Where 3, or more, are gathered, the chances of death to a seriously injured party rise dramatically.

I have always poked my nose into others business where injustices are taking place. Can't keep my mouth shut.

How far away (in miles) does an injustice have to take place for you to stop caring? For instance, if a terrorist walks into a cafe in Baghdad, and blows up everybody, can you just laugh it off, and say "We shouldn't be involved."

[Random]

Re: The Bystander Effect?

Well, I'd sure like to know the laws, (if I owned a gun I'd be sure to know them), but I think I'd go for #3.

I think this is one of the worst possible situations where the perp had a shotgun. You'd either need a gun or be on his 6 with a baseball bat.

Bat, 2x4, steel pipe, car, etc.

Of course, you need to sneak up on him and aim for the back of the head where the skull meet the spine, except with the car, though by the look of his size, hit him then drag him another 20 feet ... or make sure all your wheel go over the human speed bump ... twice.

[craigwatanabe]

Re: The Bystander Effect?

At the rate he was using that gun I think it couldn't fire off a single shot after it got all splintered.

Amazing though that 69-year old neighbor...and yeah he was a retired Marine no wonder he stepped in, it's in their blood!

I wonder what's going on in Tunoa's mind (the accused killer) right now, if he feels any remorse. You know when you're enraged, common sense never prevails and I'm sure he's feeling some of it right now.

[oceanpacific]

Re: The Bystander Effect?

I'd ram that bastard with my car!

Once, while drivng on Kaheka Street toward AMC, I saw a guy running on Kona Street while being chased by a security officer. I drove forward and cut off the path of the fleeing suspect, enabling his capture.

While this is far from the fatal beating a few nights ago, I couldn't help but notice the vacant eyes of the suspect. It spelled of defeat and desperation of his circumstances, as if he was dead .............

[craigwatanabe]

Re: The Bystander Effect?

I'd ram that bastard with my car!

Once, while drivng on Kaheka Street toward AMC, I saw a guy running on Kona Street while being chased by a security officer. I drove forward and cut off the path of the fleeing suspect, enabling his capture.

While this is far from the fatal beating a few nights ago, I couldn't help but notice the vacant eyes of the suspect. It spelled of defeat and desperation of his circumstances, as if he was dead .............

Gee for a moment there I thought you were going to say you rammed the security officer

[GnosticWarrior]

Re: The Bystander Effect?

Well, I'd sure like to know the laws, (if I owned a gun I'd be sure to know them), but I think I'd go for #3.

I think this is one of the worst possible situations where the perp had a shotgun. You'd either need a gun or be on his 6 with a baseball bat. Nothing else really has much of a chance.

I didn't think guns were the real answer, and I don't think killing to save someone is how God wants our rationale to be. But I think these less than lethal ammo might be a compromise that I would be willing to use a firearm for. Though according to this website: http://www.deltaforce.com/catalog/lesslethalammo.html
It looks like its illegal in Hawaii.