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Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 5

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  • Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 5

    A question to those who may have the insider info but exactly how low are wages at Mesa compared to their counterparts? When I say counterparts, I mean regional airlines, such as Mesaba or Skywest, not the likes such as United or Delta.

  • #2
    Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 4

    Originally posted by joshuatree View Post
    A question to those who may have the insider info but exactly how low are wages at Mesa compared to their counterparts? When I say counterparts, I mean regional airlines, such as Mesaba or Skywest, not the likes such as United or Delta.
    Useful website for seeing what pilots make. Mesa's is the only page that doesn't actually list hourly rates for pilots. For comps, click on "regional" airlines on the right side of the Mesa page (interestingly, Island Air is listed as one of the regionals. It's not hiring and has recalled all its furloughed pilots).

    Miulang
    "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 4

      Originally posted by Miulang View Post
      Useful website for seeing what pilots make. Mesa's is the only page that doesn't actually list hourly rates for pilots. For comps, click on "regional" airlines on the right side of the Mesa page (interestingly, Island Air is listed as one of the regionals. It's not hiring and has recalled all its furloughed pilots).

      Miulang
      Also take a gander at some of the forums on that same website. Here's a comment from a current Mesa pilot about all the "mishaps" that have occurred recently on Mesa:

      I am so embarrassed to be a MAG pilot. What a bunch of a** clowns. What a circus. I just can't believe it. What an absolute JOKE, yo. We are the laughing stock of the industry, and have been for a long time anyhow. Those who think we can turn this thing around with a better contract are kidding themselves. Oh, and it looks like our scope-clause got violated yet AGAIN!!!

      Here is a rundown of the MAG shinanigans (sp?) over the last year plus:
      1. Sued for kicking a pax off for breast feeding in Burlington VA
      2. Pilot arrested for stealing out of the TSA security bins
      3. Sued by Hawaiian
      4. Going to be sued by Aloha
      5. Probably going to be sued by Hawaiian again
      6. Go is killing us... how much have we lost there so far??? Is it hundreds of millions yet?
      6. Canceled vacations
      7. Lady dies after making a scene 'cause she was denied boarding in PHX
      8. Two separate occasions of scope violations
      9. Fined heavily by UAL because we were not staffing adequately
      10. Negotiators denied release to begin contract talks (there's only 3 of them, yo- we are that understaffed???)
      11. MEGA attrition
      12. JA's up the ying-yang
      13. A plethora of pilot violations
      14. Newhires who can't get it together... 175 hours of IOE? Come on... stop treating IOE pilots and newhires as reserves to fill in the blanks.

      Add anything you can think of to the list... this sucks. This just basically sucks. As a MAG pilot, I am such a loser it's incredible yo.
      "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

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      • #4
        Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 4

        Everybody has just GOT TO read this!


        Just What Did "Administrative Leave" Mean at Mesa Air Group, Anyway?

        For those of you who are followers of the ongoing Mesa Air Group/Hawaiian affair, I have a tidbit to share with you today.

        And the most remarkable, ironic, or telling part of all this? (Take your pick.) It comes compliments of Mesa's own website.

        It can't get much better than this guys.

        Just a hint. If you want to see the pictures we're talking about live, you'd better act fast, because I'm sure they will be removed pretty quickly. Then again, for those of you who aren't quite as fast, don't worry. We've made copies of the page, and the pictures. (We are posting all links below.)

        But for those eager beavers who read this quickly enough, if you want to see what interesting thing we found today while scrolling the Mesa website, first, open your browser and go to the Mesa Air Group home page.

        Scroll down to the section on the recent launch festivities involving Kunpeng Airlines, the regional joint venture created by Shenzhen Airlines and Mesa Air. Headline is "KunPeng Airlines Launches Services in China." Check out that fake fog while you're at it. (Well it was around Halloween.)

        Click on the link that says "MORE" in that section. It will bring up an entire page of full resolution photos. Not minimal JPG sizes. Oh, no, full resolution photographs. (That will become important here in a minute.)

        The picture that caught our eye is on the next to the bottom row -- one picture towards the right. It's the one with the huge flower artwork on the wall behind a number of people seated at a long table.

        Direct link to the photo.

        When the photo is downloaded, it is identified by the Mesa Air Group site with a moniker that includes "Kunpeng Launch." As you can see, it is in a group of other pictures that were clearly also of the various launch festivities. When did this particular occur? Well, the launch was officially Friday the 27th of October. So, it could have been the 26th, the 27th or the 28th.

        Now, here's the point of my web adventure.

        Look who's seated next to Jonathan Ornstein at the official event. To his right -- with, appropriately, an open laptop in front of him? (I know, at this point it's becoming more and more like a skit from Saturday Night Live.)

        While he seems to be somewhat pre-occupied with a napkin in the photo, and not what is on his laptop, there's no question the person seated next to Jonathan is Peter Murnane. In fact, because the photo was uploaded in its full resolution -- you can clearly make out his name on the little white name placeholder in front of him. George Peter Murnane III no less.

        But wasn't Peter on administrative leave from the company at the end of October?

        A little historical perspective here for those who took a cruise to Alaska in October.

        On Sept. 21, Mesa Air Group sent out a press release. In that release, it stated that the Board of Directors of the airline had put Peter Murnane on "administrative leave." In the press release, Mesa CEO Jonathan Ornstein said, "Our policy is to comply with only the highest ethical standards of conduct and, if we become aware of a potential or alleged violation of such standards, to conduct an appropriate investigation and to take appropriate remedial action when warranted. We will report the outcome of the Company's investigation as soon as it is completed."

        "Until the investigation is complete, William Hoke, Vice President of Finance will continue to be responsible for the financial and accounting functions of the Company and will perform the duties of Mr. Murnane," the release said.

        As you recall, it was just a few days later that U.S. Bankruptcy Judge Robert Faris ruled that Murnane had intentionally destroyed files that Mesa hadused before launching its airline go! These files had been sought as part of the trial's discovery process.This was the ruling that came after the porn-made-me-do-it defense by Murnane.

        I'll let all of you talk amongst yourselves about this. Goodness knows there is enough to chew on.
        Last edited by Star of Gladness; November 7, 2007, 10:04 PM.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 4

          Star, yes I saw those pictures too. They have been removed now from mesa-air.com. go! figure?

          All the executives at Aloha saw them early this morning. It is very safe to say Mesa's defense come next April is getting weaker by the minute. These idiots truly are their own worst enemies.

          I can't belive he had his laptop open and was wiping his hands with a napkin! I forgot to check if there was a bottle of hand lotion on the table!

          Oh the comedy.

          Thanks for posting the links!
          GO WARRIORS!!

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 4

            Ornstein claims that the reason why Peter Murnane was in China with him, even though he was put on administrative leave the week before, is because Murnane was on the original Board of Directors of Kunpeng Airlines and it was out of courtesy to the Chinese that Murnane was invited along.

            I think I can understand why Ornstein wanted to do business with Shenzen. Seems that that company also is expanding its sphere of influence in China by setting up more partnerships, much like how Mesa got its start in this country.

            Birds of a feather? And they're planning to take the company public to raise $1 billion next year.

            Miulang
            "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 4

              Originally posted by Miulang View Post
              Seems that that company also is expanding its sphere of influence in China by setting up more partnerships, much like how Mesa got its start in this country.

              Birds of a feather? And they're planning to take the company public to raise $1 billion next year.

              Miulang
              And Mesa may end up handing over all of it to Aloha. The irony is that Aloha's founders, the Tonggs and the the Chings and Ings always wanted to fly Hawaii to China.

              After this April comes, it is entirely plausible that Mesa ends up handing over their China assets to Aloha in order to satisfy the whopping judgement that this way comes.

              Lets see, how's this scenario. Aloha's ETOPS certificate is used to connect Mesa's US mainland route structure with mainland China. Overnight Aloha could become 4 times as big as Hawaiian.

              Ron Burkle ends up making some nice coin on Aloha after all and with Bethune's connections they re-fleet with 787's and start "spreading da aloha" globally.

              JO ends up in criminal court frowning and wearing an orange jumpsuit for all the world to see.

              These guys are going to jail and laughing all the way there. Here JO is already practicing his new position...


              "HAHAHAHA what a big joke! Lets go to Hawaii and defraud Aloha then brag about it everywhere else we go".

              These men are hollow skulled imbeciles.

              These two idiots aren't half as smart as guys like Karl Rove or Ken Lay and they still went to jail. It is only a matter of time. So sad!
              GO WARRIORS!!

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 4

                Originally posted by aloha-anon View Post
                Ron Burkle ends up making some nice coin on Aloha after all and with Bethune's connections they re-fleet with 787's and start "spreading da aloha" globally.
                Even if you put down an order today, you won't get a 787 till probably 5 years out based on Boeing's backlog and delay.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 4

                  Originally posted by joshuatree View Post
                  Even if you put down an order today, you won't get a 787 till probably 5 years out based on Boeing's backlog and delay.
                  Trust me, there are several leasing companies that are very high on the list of deliveries. I can tell you if somebody wants one bad enough, they will be able to get the airplane almost immediately. Now getting 12 of them might take some time.
                  GO WARRIORS!!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 4

                    Originally posted by aloha-anon View Post
                    Trust me, there are several leasing companies that are very high on the list of deliveries. I can tell you if somebody wants one bad enough, they will be able to get the airplane almost immediately. Now getting 12 of them might take some time.
                    ILFC is the leasing company that has purchased the most 787s amongst leasing companies and AQ is a client of ILFC. But the question is, will AQ pay an arm and a leg just for some bragging rights? It would probably make more sense to snag up used 767s and refurb them like HA, especially when the 787s do roll out in large numbers, you'll probably be able to find deals on used 767s.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 4

                      Originally posted by joshuatree View Post
                      ILFC is the leasing company that has purchased the most 787s amongst leasing companies and AQ is a client of ILFC. But the question is, will AQ pay an arm and a leg just for some bragging rights? It would probably make more sense to snag up used 767s and refurb them like HA, especially when the 787s do roll out in large numbers, you'll probably be able to find deals on used 767s.
                      No airline will be buying 787's for "bragging rights". The 787 will have the lowest costs of any widebody in the sky. The lease rates on 767's will tank once 787's are produced in significant numbers. The 767 is the 707 of the future.

                      Whoever is not flying the 787 by 2010 will be at a severe disadvantage to their competitors that are.
                      GO WARRIORS!!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 4

                        Originally posted by aloha-anon View Post
                        No airline will be buying 787's for "bragging rights". The 787 will have the lowest costs of any widebody in the sky. The lease rates on 767's will tank once 787's are produced in significant numbers. The 767 is the 707 of the future.

                        Whoever is not flying the 787 by 2010 will be at a severe disadvantage to their competitors that are.
                        I agree the 787 effectively replaces the 767 but 2010's too early. All the leasing companies won't even get their first 787s till around 2010, 2009 the earliest. And the first 787s for leasing companies have already been leased out for 10-12 year leases so I still don't see AQ being able to get one in the near future. Unless.....AQ spends a chunk of change just to get one which is why I called it bragging rights. Delta, United, and American are still only in preliminary talks about ordering the 787. So the 767s still have a decent amount of life left in the passenger market. If you factor in cost of new 787 vs cost savings of 787 and then compare that to picking up a cheap,used 767 vs less cost efficient, the 767 might come out as the better deal for the next 5 years for a smaller airline.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 4

                          Originally posted by joshuatree View Post
                          I agree the 787 effectively replaces the 767 but 2010's too early. All the leasing companies won't even get their first 787s till around 2010, 2009 the earliest. And the first 787s for leasing companies have already been leased out for 10-12 year leases so I still don't see AQ being able to get one in the near future. Unless.....AQ spends a chunk of change just to get one which is why I called it bragging rights. Delta, United, and American are still only in preliminary talks about ordering the 787. So the 767s still have a decent amount of life left in the passenger market. If you factor in cost of new 787 vs cost savings of 787 and then compare that to picking up a cheap,used 767 vs less cost efficient, the 767 might come out as the better deal for the next 5 years for a smaller airline.
                          agreed the 767 will still be around for a while. Its fun to think that one day they will be a dime a dozen though. Right now one of those tiny single engine Caravans at Pacific Wings are more expensive than a 727 or 707. Try this google search "boeing 707 for sale". With a little bargaining, for the price of a new Caravan I could get two 707's right now.
                          GO WARRIORS!!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 4

                            Ornstein is majorly pissed with Holly Hegemann the girl that runs planebuzz.com I guess she posted some pictures of Ornstein and Murnane together in China AFTER they fired him.

                            Ornstein has now sued Holly. http://www.planebuzz.com/2007/11/mes...planebuzz.html

                            What a bully and a coward. I can't believe he would sue a girl! It's all about his ego!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 4

                              Just saw the Aloha 737-800 coming in for landing into Kahului about 2p.m. I`m not sure but this could be the 1st run for Sacramento. Blessing for the aircraft named Makali`i was held yesterday. Anyone know the scoops, is the flight coming in from Sacramento on the B737-700 to end in OGG. Is the Leased 737-800 to continue from there? Al-Anon, do you have the scoops!!!!
                              Oggboy
                              bin dea-dunn dat.

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