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The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 2

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  • The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 2

    Tomorrow is the big day, or as Vodka Pundit calls it "Super Duper Tsunami Hurricane Big-Ass Tuesday vote". Polls show Obama gaining ground which could lead to a brokered convention in Denver. I think it is more likely that HRC will come out with a significant lead though I'd really be happy if it was close. I don't like the primary campaign coming to an end so soon. I would prefer to see it go on all the way to the convention. On the Republican side, polls favor McCain, but if Romney can win California and a few others, he could stay in. More likely McCain will take a dominating lead.

  • #2
    Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections

    I have grave doubts that this country is really ready for either a female or black President. A Clinton-Obama or Obama-Clinton ticket isn't in the cards for the Democrats as this nation is definitely NOT ready for both!

    We really should be ready to embrace these possibilities. Otherwise, all the "equal opportunity" rhetoric spewed forth for more than two centuries is just talk. Only my honest opinion.

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    • #3
      Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections

      Originally posted by oceanpacific View Post
      I have grave doubts that this country is really ready for either a female or black President. A Clinton-Obama or Obama-Clinton ticket isn't in the cards for the Democrats as this nation is definitely NOT ready for both!

      We really should be ready to embrace these possibilities. Otherwise, all the "equal opportunity" rhetoric spewed forth for more than two centuries is just talk. Only my honest opinion.
      You raise an interesting point and one which I was discussing with our business partner while he was visiting from Guam. He is a middle-aged black man and he truly believed that the people of America would never elect Obama because he is a black. I asked him if he thought Colin Powell could have been elected and he paused to think about it before saying he thought that would Powell would be very electable. So, why Powell but not Obama? He said Obama is too young, too inexperienced and too far left (my friend is a strong traditional liberal) while Powell has maturity and experience and is a moderate. So, the upshot of the discussion was that it was more about the candidate than race.

      Is this true for Hilary as well? I think so, though I know there are many who sincerely believe it's about her gender.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections

        Originally posted by oceanpacific View Post
        I have grave doubts that this country is really ready for either a female or black President. A Clinton-Obama or Obama-Clinton ticket isn't in the cards for the Democrats as this nation is definitely NOT ready for both!

        We really should be ready to embrace these possibilities. Otherwise, all the "equal opportunity" rhetoric spewed forth for more than two centuries is just talk. Only my honest opinion.
        You had me worried for a moment there, op, with the first part of your post - I was all set to ask you why you thought neither a female or black could be President. Then you set me straight with part two - thanks.

        So much for that other thread about men only reading and responding to part of a message...

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections

          Huckabee wins West Virginia.

          McCain, Romney and Clinton, for all their ideological differences, are likely to run things in a manner we can readily predict. However, I can't get a grasp on Obama. Sure, he's a great campaigner, but who'd get selected as his 'circle of friends'? Would we see Condee again?
          May I always be found beneath your contempt.

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          • #6
            Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections

            Originally posted by oceanpacific View Post
            I have grave doubts that this country is really ready for either a female or black President. A Clinton-Obama or Obama-Clinton ticket isn't in the cards for the Democrats as this nation is definitely NOT ready for both!

            We really should be ready to embrace these possibilities. Otherwise, all the "equal opportunity" rhetoric spewed forth for more than two centuries is just talk. Only my honest opinion.
            If Super Tuesday is any indication, the voters are ready for a black president. Obama carried such relatively undiverse (racially speaking) states as Idaho, Kansas, North Dakota and Utah by huge margins.

            Regarding the Dem results from yesterday, I am delighted that we have a real horse race still and look forward to the coming months. On the Rep side, I admit to feeling more than a bit queasy about Huckabee's showing...yikes.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections

              Originally posted by glossyp View Post
              Regarding the Dem results from yesterday, I am delighted that we have a real horse race still and look forward to the coming months.
              I'm curious about how participants in this thread feel about the differences (or the lack of any difference) between voters in primaries and voters in general. In Hawaii, where we have open primaries, I suppose there's no difference at all, but in places where party membership alone decides what the state's delegation to the conventions will look like, doesn't it seem that the winning candidate will very often not represent the general electorate?

              I guess what I'm asking is something like this: If we say that America is clearly ready for a Black President or a woman President, are we really saying at this stage of the game that the parties who nominate them are ready, with no real clue about whether or not the general electorate is ready?
              But I'm disturbed! I'm depressed! I'm inadequate! I GOT IT ALL! (George Costanza)
              GrouchyTeacher.com

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              • #8
                Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections

                Originally posted by scrivener View Post
                I'm curious about how participants in this thread feel about the differences (or the lack of any difference) between voters in primaries and voters in general.
                I'm more concerned about the polarization between the two parties. If the two groups are made up of active voters who are very different, you can end up eliminating the moderates that can gain public support and end up with two polarized choices.

                So I guess I'm more concerned about to what extent that the candidates are chosen by the few then by the public at large.

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                • #9
                  Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections

                  Months before Obama went on Oprah's show and our media here on Oahu was asking if he was going to announce candidacy, I told both of our daughters that the next president is Hillary and Obama will be her VP. It hasn't looked this way but they are smiling a lot at each other, lol.

                  I still see this as happening, and I think any of you that are Democrats are blessed to have them. They are the best looking ticket that you've had in a very, very long time and your party will make history with it, and it will be exciting for this country....the making history part. (if they push through the badly written Akaka bill once in....not so good)

                  It, in fact would be very foolish for the Dem. party to NOT put the Clinton/Obama ticket out because it's a no-brainer....what a winning ticket! I won't vote for them but I REFUSE to vote for McCain, too. No more voting for the lesser of evils, sort of thing. maybe I'll bake cookies that day....in protest of Hillary and all she stands for, lol.
                  Stop being lost in thought where our problems thrive.~

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections

                    Originally posted by Kittrick View Post
                    Huge controversy coming down the pike at the Democratic convention, as the Democratic National Party is going to try to bar Michigan and Florida from the delegate count as a penalty for moving up their primaries. That's why no democrat campaigned in either state, except hillary in florida, which is a serious mistake as they both yield so many electors in the general.

                    Technically, based on the plans of the DNP, Hillary didn't win any delegates in Florida or Michigan. Don't believe me? Go to your favourite search engine and type "florida no delegates" or "michigan no delegates"
                    Quote from the Obama Watch thread which comments on the delegate issue facing the Democrats. A very interesting column from Roger Simon today which addresses the issue of Super Delegates and mentions the Michigan and Florida delegate situation - all of which could well result in what Simon describes as "a nightmare scenario" at the convention. Read the article.
                    Last edited by glossyp; February 6, 2008, 10:36 AM. Reason: clarity

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                    • #11
                      Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections

                      Nightmare scenario indeed. I'm sure many hope the next few primaries start to set a solid lead for either Obama or Clinton, else that convention will be a circus. I can easily see Obama coming in with more delegates but having the ultimate nomination being picked by the "super delegates," which would be fine with the political establishment but a disaster for party or political idealists.

                      I gotta say, Obama vs. McCain is a much easier call for this commie pinko liberal to make than Clinton vs. McCain. And at least a couple of friends have said that they'd take Ron Paul over Clinton, and that's saying something.

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                      • #12
                        Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections

                        If it becomes a Clinton vs. McCain, it could be a battle of "anybody but"s.

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                        • #13
                          Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections

                          Whoa! You've got friends and they want Paul over Clinton?! That does say a lot and I never expected to hear that from any Dems. Thanks for passing it along.

                          Clinton's out of money, reportedly, and Obama's raised several million in the last couple of days. Hmmm....well, Clinton does have that name recognition thing.

                          An Obama, Clinton ticket?!
                          Stop being lost in thought where our problems thrive.~

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections

                            Originally posted by Karen View Post
                            Whoa! You've got friends and they want Paul over Clinton?! That does say a lot and I never expected to hear that from any Dems. Thanks for passing it along.
                            Indeed. As GeckoGeek notes, it turns the General Election into an "anyone but {x}" decision for plenty of people. Obviously people have very strong feelings about Clinton and McCain. I dare say that Clinton carries much more baggage than McCain.

                            Obama benefits, honestly, from being enough of an unknown factor that there isn't much there yet against which to build such a toxic, adverse reaction.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections

                              Originally posted by pzarquon View Post
                              Indeed. As GeckoGeek notes, it turns the General Election into an "anyone but {x}" decision for plenty of people. Obviously people have very strong feelings about Clinton and McCain. I dare say that Clinton carries much more baggage than McCain.
                              Should Hillary win the Democratic nomination, she'll be facing off not only against voters in the GOP camp, but those who are of the ABC mindset. (Anybody But Clinton.) Most people either love her or hate her. Very few take the middle ground.

                              McCain's biggest challenge is wooing the conservative right-wing faction of the GOP. Romney "suspending" his presidential campaign all but locks up the nomination for McCain. But he'll need the support that Romney was getting from hardcore conservatives if he wants any kind of chance in the general election.
                              This post may contain an opinion that may conflict with your opinion. Do not take it personal. Polite discussion of difference of opinion is welcome.

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