The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 2

[Frankie's Market]

Re: The Hillary Rodham Clinton Watch

obama's stance on NAFTA isn't as "incontrivertible" as you think it is.

Uhh, as the blog shows, it was generalized statements about trade agreements (note the inclusion of WTO) made to a small constituency of 100 farmers in Illinois. It was NOT statements designed to support/reject NAFTA, as they were made to that small group in 2004, more than a decade after NAFTA was passed. Heck, Obama wasn't even in elective office when NAFTA was passed.

But the 2 Clintons stumped for NAFTA and supported its passage in congress, when Bill was the prez and Hillary was the first lady. That fact does not and will not ever change.

That blogger is reaching, big time. And I think most voters in Ohio won't buy it, come March 4.

obama's stance on the war is much more nuanced than he admits.

Lots of speculation about Obama's campaign motives and timings. Still doesn't change the fact that Clinton voted to support an authorizaton for President Bush to take military action in Iraq.

As I said before, I base my voting decisions on facts. Not on other people's speculation. And certainly not on bloggers with slick-looking websites but filled with a crude analysis based on statements that have been taken out of context and twisted to fit an agenda.

[Karen]

Re: The Hillary Rodham Clinton Watch

She's showing what a sore loser she is, already.

Make no mistake about it, she's a loser in more ways than one and not even worthy to tie Obama's shoes. I won't be voting for him but I will cringe less when he's having his inauguration.

Obamamania is so understandable. He IS fresh, new, charismatic and inspiring. He does have this aura of honor and respect that no clinton has and he isn't tainted by what they are.

I am a GOP'er and even I respect him. Agree with him? NO....not on Israel, not on how fast to bring our troops out of Iraq, not on free medical care for all, God help us! and no telling how many things of his I haven't perused, but what he HAS going for him is what clinton is sorely lacking, just as she is sorely losing...

HONOR and RESPECT.

When FBI agent Gary Aldrich wrote his book about his total access to the clinton white house as they first moved in....he, I think....told an unfounded story, maybe even two? But!

Problem for them is that he told many stories he could back up and saw firsthand, etc....READ that book if you haven't. His book was on some best seller lists, but we know that people have short memories in such busy lives, generally speaking.

Thank God that if the liberal party's turn at lies and empty promises has come again, that it's OBAMA that's in the lead. hillary even brings dishonor to the party platform she stands on. Obama does the opposite and his party is lucky to have him.

"Unlimited Access" by Gary Adrich.....it'll make a soulful person shudder to think of THAT getting back into our white house.

[WindwardOahuRN]

Re: The Hillary Rodham Clinton Watch

Makes you wonder if Barack will serve for two terms and then have Michelle run a few terms later. Deja vu.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: The Hillary Rodham Clinton Watch

I've no issue with members of a family trying for the office - the Kennedys did it, as did the Bushes, now the Clintons - and I am sure that most presidents will turn to their spouses and other family members for advice and opinions - as long as it is clear that responsibility for policy decisions rests with the one who is directly accountable to the voters, and that it is more transparent to the public as to who is consulted on official matters (something sorely lacking in the Bush administration as it was in any other).

[sinjin]

Re: The Hillary Rodham Clinton Watch

Judge the candidate, not the woman? I for one have always judged the "man" as well as the "candidate". I think many do the same. I see no difference this time.

[cynsaligia]

Re: The Hillary Rodham Clinton Watch

Ouch, that was a rather scolding column from Ms. Dowd. Having not seen this type of commentary from MO since hubby became a serious contender, I wonder if they've told her to tone it down. She stuck her foot in it in Wisconsin several days ago, but no chiding of the candidate.

Obama mania disturbs me because of the 'true believer' tone of many of the supporters who don't know his political views. Makes me think of a bunch of lemmings following a pied piper. And, to all Obama supporters offended by the above, I have no problem with those who actually do know what he represents and still support him. My remarks are directed to those who are enchanted by the rhetoric alone.

i kinda think the author actually just has a problem with women in power or women thisclose to power, generally. i could wax more on that but it's not appropriate here. but yeah, michelle doesn't do much for her husband's campaign with comments like that.

Ouch, that was a rather scolding column from Ms. Dowd. Having not seen this type of commentary from MO since hubby became a serious contender, I wonder if they've told her to tone it down. She stuck her foot in it in Wisconsin several days ago, but no chiding of the candidate.

Obama mania disturbs me because of the 'true believer' tone of many of the supporters who don't know his political views. Makes me think of a bunch of lemmings following a pied piper. And, to all Obama supporters offended by the above, I have no problem with those who actually do know what he represents and still support him. My remarks are directed to those who are enchanted by the rhetoric alone.

agree with you on the obama mania... or any other candidate-mania.

As I said before, I base my voting decisions on facts. Not on other people's speculation. And certainly not on bloggers with slick-looking websites but filled with a crude analysis based on statements that have been taken out of context and twisted to fit an agenda.

i base my voting decisions on facts, too, and my preference is HRC. i'd guess, FM, that our desires, visions for the future, and priorities are a little different.

however, i even if i did agree with you wholeheartedly and without reservation, i'd never have a burning need to sledgehammer rabidly (albeit figuratively) anyone who disagrees as if they were some blathering, unwashed savage worshiping a pagan bitch god and who must therefore be converted to see the light and join in the audacity of hope, as it is the only true way to the promised land.

well, thank's for your time.

[Frankie's Market]

Re: The Hillary Rodham Clinton Watch

Hillary Clinton more seasoned than Barrack Obama when it comes to foreign policy? That's what the Clinton camp has kept drilling the American public since day one of her campaign. But oh, what do the Russians think of the matter? Here's an article that appeared in the Moscow Times.

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/storie...02/28/012.html

When asked whether she knew the name of President Vladimir Putin's certain successor, Clinton struggled.

"Um, Med-medvedova, whatever," she finally said.

Actually, the reporter was being nice. If you watch the video, she actually stammered out, "Meh, uhm, Me-ned-vadah -- whatever."

Obama too, was a nice guy for not making a big deal about Clinton stumbling on that tongue-twister. If it was the other way around, I have the feeling that Clinton would have fiercely pounced on it as evidence that her opponent is inexperienced in foreign policy.

[glossyp]

Re: The Hillary Rodham Clinton Watch

Hillary Clinton more seasoned than Barrack Obama when it comes to foreign policy? That's what the Clinton camp has kept drilling the American public since day one of her campaign. But oh, what do the Russians think of the matter? Here's an article that appeared in the Moscow Times.

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/storie...02/28/012.html

When asked whether she knew the name of President Vladimir Putin's certain successor, Clinton struggled.

"Um, Med-medvedova, whatever," she finally said.

Actually, the reporter was being nice. If you watch the video, she actually stammered out, "Meh, uhm, Me-ned-vadah -- whatever."

Obama too, was a nice guy for not making a big deal about Clinton stumbling on that tongue-twister. If it was the other way around, I have the feeling that Clinton would have fiercely pounced on it as evidence that her opponent is inexperienced in foreign policy.

It hardly matters though since Medvedev will be nothing more than a figurehead who will do exactly what Putin says. That was a complete 'gotcha' MSM question which means absolutely nothing in terms of reality. I'm no fan of HRC, but the media is treating her like a despised Repub these days while BO gets fawning media treatment.

[Vanguard]

Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections

Mark Penn thinks we "misunderstand" Clinton camp

Senator Daniel Inouye apologizes to Senator Barack Obama

Barack Obama: The first woman president?

Another switches endorsement to Obama

[Frankie's Market]

Re: The Hillary Rodham Clinton Watch

It hardly matters though since Medvedev will be nothing more than a figurehead who will do exactly what Putin says.

Using that same logic, one could also say that Hillary Clinton would be nothing more than a figureheard president who will do exactly what Bill says.

That was a complete 'gotcha' MSM question which means absolutely nothing in terms of reality.

Gotcha question? Maybe for you and the average Joe on the street. But for someone who hopes to be the next president, for someone who has continually touted her foreign policy experience and savvy over that of her rival, this was an opportunity for her to show to voters that she could walk her talk..... And she BLEW IT! Plain and simple.

I'm no fan of HRC, but the media is treating her like a despised Repub these days while BO gets fawning media treatment.

So now, it's the media's fault that Clinton flubbed that question? And the media is the one to blame for her faltering campaign? But of course!

Not that I think Hillary Clinton will play the part of a media conspiracy victim, should she lose the nomination. I give her a lot more credit than that. She's smart enough to know that blaming the media for her loss and carrying on an adverserial relationship with the press would be tantamount to committing political harakiri.

[anapuni808]

Re: The Hillary Rodham Clinton Watch

I seem to recall her talking about a "vast right wing conspiracy" against the Clinton's back when he was still in office. They will play the blame game - they are doing it now. and she came across in the last 2 debates as whiny and a bit desperate. So, in my opinion - blaming the media is about the only thing she has to blame right now because she certainly won't take responsibility for imploding her campaign. Of course, my opinion doesn't really count for much

[Frankie's Market]

Re: The Hillary Rodham Clinton Watch

I seem to recall her talking about a "vast right wing conspiracy" against the Clinton's back when he was still in office.

True, but the conspirators she was talking about were more along the lines of Kenneth Starr and others who she thought were out to defame her husband during the Monica Lewinsky scandal. Although she might very well have had some choice comments for the conservative talking heads of the day like Rush Limbaugh and Michael Reagan, AFAIK, she didn't go out and accuse the mainstream media outlets as being part of this right-wing conspiracy.

When I was talking about someone playing the "victim" of a media conspiracy, I was thinking more along the lines of a guy like Richard Nixon, who went off on the deep end in his relations towards the mainstream press when he angrily denounced them with quotes like, "You won't have Nixon to kick around anymore." Now while it is true that Hillary has whined about Obama getting a better shake from the media in some quarters, it also has to be said that she's not ranting that the media is out to destroy her, either.

[anapuni808]

Re: The Hillary Rodham Clinton Watch

you are totally right about Nixon - I had completely forgotten about him & I even watched that speech on TV!

[cynsaligia]

Re: The Hillary Rodham Clinton Watch

quote buttons not working for me tonight, sorry.

from glossyp:

"It hardly matters though since Medvedev will be nothing more than a figurehead who will do exactly what Putin says."

from frankie's market:

"Using that same logic, one could also say that Hillary Clinton would be nothing more than a figureheard president who will do exactly what Bill says."

******

anyone who has even a cursory understanding of russian history and government would recognize immediately that after passing its surface layer, there is nothing correct about FM's analogy.

secondly, i hadn't realized that putin's opinion on HRC (or any other presidential candidate) is now a good indicator of whom we should make 44. what are you gonna do next, FM? tell us that ahmadinejad favors obama? or that huckabee resonates for kim jong il?

[Frankie's Market]

Re: The Hillary Rodham Clinton Watch

quote buttons not working for me tonight, sorry.

from glossyp:

"It hardly matters though since Medvedev will be nothing more than a figurehead who will do exactly what Putin says."

from frankie's market:

"Using that same logic, one could also say that Hillary Clinton would be nothing more than a figureheard president who will do exactly what Bill says."

******

anyone who has even a cursory understanding of russian history and government would recognize immediately that after passing its surface layer, there is nothing correct about FM's analogy.

My analogy was simply this: How can anyone presume and authoratively speculate that Dmitry Medvedev will be a puppet to Vladimir Putin when he hasn't even been elected to the office of President yet? Why, just because someone thinks so makes it so? It would be the same as automatically presuming that Hillary Clinton will be nothing more than an Oval Office puppet of Bill,... just because someone "says it's so."

secondly, i hadn't realized that putin's opinion on HRC (or any other presidential candidate) is now a good indicator of whom we should make 44. what are you gonna do next, FM? tell us that ahmadinejad favors obama? or that huckabee resonates for kim jong il?

Cyn, when I said, But oh, what do the Russians think of the matter? I wasn't talking about the matter of who should become America's next President. I was referring to what I wrote in the first sentence of the post, which was the Clinton's camp claim that Hillary was, "more seasoned than Barrack Obama when it comes to foreign policy." In other words, what do Russians think of the claim that Hillary Clinton is a whiz at foreign policy when she can't even remember the name of the leading candidate to become their next President? Many would no doubt be skeptical, just as Americans would be rightfully skeptical about the competency of any foreign diplomat/ambassador working in this country and not knowing something as basic as who is the US Vice President.

Nice try at attempting to twist my words around by taking my statements out of context. But Homey don't play dat!