The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 2

[cynsaligia]

Re: The Hillary Rodham Clinton Watch

My analogy was simply this: How can anyone presume and authoratively speculate that Dmitry Medvedev will be a puppet to Vladimir Putin when he hasn't even been elected to the office of President yet? Why, just because someone thinks so makes it so? It would be the same as automatically presuming that Hillary Clinton will be nothing more than an Oval Office puppet of Bill,... just because someone "says it's so."



Cyn, when I said, But oh, what do the Russians think of the matter? I wasn't talking about the matter of who should become America's next President. I was referring to what I wrote in the first sentence of the post, which was the Clinton's camp claim that Hillary was, "more seasoned than Barrack Obama when it comes to foreign policy." In other words, what do Russians think of the claim that Hillary Clinton is a whiz at foreign policy when she can't even remember the name of the leading candidate to become their next President? Many would no doubt be skeptical, just as Americans would be rightfully skeptical about the competency of any foreign diplomat/ambassador working in this country and not knowing something as basic as who is the US Vice President.

Nice try at attempting to twist my words around by taking my statements out of context. But Homey don't play dat!

"incontrivertible" fact #1: putin is a de facto dictator who effectively put medvedev in his position so that he (putin) himself could basically "rule" russia indefinitely. it's not so because glossyp or i say it's so; it's widely (as in internationally--by diplomats, ambassadors, you know--people who actually pay attention to this kind of stuff for a living) known to be true. it's definitely well-understood by the russian citizenry, which watched putin's government disqualify any viable candidates who were not putin's faithful.

"incontrivertible" fact #2: if the average russian were to consider whether HRC as president...or her diplomacy skills, which would be a big part of being president, da?...would have a good effect for them, they would likely consider bill clinton's presidency. they wouldn't--and needn't--bother with her mispronunciation of "medvedev." shit, half the time, reagan mispronounced "gorbachev" but that never stopped them from working (relatively) well together.

homey, for someone who likes to pronounce they base their opinions on facts, ya be clownin' with some ludicrous speculations here. or perhaps the real fact here is that you were basing your opinion on the audacity of....neveschestva*?

oh yeah. here's a fact for you: i studied russian language/history/literature/government for more than a handful of years.

*snort*


*ask me, and i'll translate. you won't find it by googling.

[Frankie's Market]

Re: The Hillary Rodham Clinton Watch

"incontrivertible" fact #1: putin is a de facto dictator who effectively put medvedev in his position so that he (putin) himself could basically "rule" russia indefinitely. it's not so because glossyp or i say it's so; it's widely (as in internationally--by diplomats, ambassadors, you know--people who actually pay attention to this kind of stuff for a living) known to be true.

Pure speculation. You don't have a crystal ball to fortell the future. You can say all you want about what "you think" will happen if Dmitry Medvedev is elected President of Russia. But's that all it will ever be. Speculation.

"incontrivertible" fact #2: if the average russian were to consider whether HRC as president...or her diplomacy skills, which would be a big part of being president, da?...would have a good effect for them, they would likely consider bill clinton's presidency. they wouldn't--and needn't--bother with her mispronunciation of "medvedev." shit, half the time, reagan mispronounced "gorbachev" but that never stopped them from working (relatively) well together.

Wow! All that,... from a simple clarification of an earlier statement I made.

Okay then, whatever you were trying to say.

oh yeah. here's a fact for you: i studied russian language/history/literature/government for more than a handful of years.

*snort*


*ask me, and i'll translate. you won't find it by googling.

Since I don't know how to speak Russian, it would be fairly pointless of me in trying to test you. But even if you studied Russian for "X" number of years, it wouldn't change the fact that you don't have a crystal ball to determine what will happen in Russian politics. You can only speculate and come up with an educated "guess," at best.

And if you did know Russian history, then you would also be aware that in numerous times in the past, politicians who started off as allies sometimes ended up as bitter enemies. (For example, Khrushchev and Brezhnev.) The bottom line is, no one knows anything for sure about how things will work out whenever there's a change in the political climate.

[cynsaligia]

Re: The Hillary Rodham Clinton Watch

All pure speculation. You don't have a crystal ball to fortell the future. You can say all you want about what "you think" will happen if Dmitry Medvedev is elected President of Russia. But's that all it will ever be. Speculation.



Wow! All that,... from a simple clarification of an earlier statement I made.

Okay then, whatever you were trying to say.



Since I don't know how to speak Russian, it would be fairly pointless of me in trying to test you. But even if you studied Russian for "X" number of years, it wouldn't change the fact that you don't have a crystal ball to determine what will happen in Russian politics. You can only speculate and come up with an educated "guess," at best.

And if you did know Russian history, then you would also be aware that in numerous times in the past, politicians who started off as allies sometimes ended up as bitter enemies. (For example, Krushchev and Brezhnev.) The bottom line is, no one knows anything for sure about how things will work out whenever there's a change in the political climate.

gotcha.



the fact is obama wasn't in the senate when the vote to go to war in iraq came down. he wasn't privy to the same info HRC or anyone else who was in the senate at the time was, so any statement about how he would or would not have voted is speculation.

the fact is obama could have voted clearly affirmatively or clearly negatively on certain women's reproductive rights issues but he voted "present" instead. some can argue that it was a strategic decision to try to bring opponents around. but we don't know for sure. that's speculation.

the fact is obama claims to have "pressed the wrong button" when voting on 6 issues that included $2 million for a Chicago child welfare office's funding (he voted with repubs against). some can choose to believe he truly, accidentally, pressed the wrong button. but that would be speculation.

waitwaitwait...you crow about how hillary mispronounced "medvedev" but yet your guy pressed the wrong button half a dozen times (and note--the buttons from which he had to choose were three different colors!)...and this is a guy who might eventually have access to THE button??!!!

but i digress.

my point is, where's your crystal ball, homey? cause you bludgeon the rest of us with your insistence that you base everything on facts (big, bold, italic ones, no less--"incontrivertible" or whatever) while anyone who disagrees with you is merely speculating.

i'm taking a guess *rolls eyes* but it seems quite clear to me you're doing just as much speculation as the rest of us here, at least when it comes to the 44th president-to-be (whoever s/he may be) and what that president will or won't do.

like i said before, i don't care who anyone prefers in an election as long as that preference was well-examined. you can support your candidate as passionately as you will but don't throw words around like "incontrovertable" and act as if he was born of a virgin and, through god's undeniable will, made president.

The bottom line is, no one knows anything for sure about how things will work out whenever there's a change in the political climate.

ya think??!!! oh wait...we can hope, right?

[Leo Lakio]

Re: The Hillary Rodham Clinton Watch

When I was talking about someone playing the "victim" of a media conspiracy, I was thinking more along the lines of a guy like Richard Nixon, who went off on the deep end in his relations towards the mainstream press when he angrily denounced them with quotes like, "You won't have Nixon to kick around anymore."

Ah, for the old days...remember how much his v.p., Spiro Agnew, loved the press? What was it he called them? "Nattering nabobs of negativism." (Going off memory here, rather than internet searching.)

Saw a t-shirt last year that I liked: "BUSH --- Never thought I'd miss Nixon"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

'nother topic --- how about those tax returns? Seen Sen. Obama's, what about Sen. Clinton or Sen. McCain?

[Vanguard]

Re: The Hillary Rodham Clinton Watch

'nother topic --- how about those tax returns? Seen Sen. Obama's, what about Sen. Clinton or Sen. McCain?

If Bush 43 were president instead of Nixon, I'm sure Bush would still go to China. Just via an aircraft career with a "Mission Accomplished" banner, after bombing the heck out of it

[Leo Lakio]

Re: The Hillary Rodham Clinton Watch

If Bush 43 were president instead of Nixon, I'm sure Bush would still go to China. Just via an aircraft career with a "Mission Accomplished" banner, after bombing the heck out of it

...and we'd still have troops there, many years later.

[pzarquon]

Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections

Perhaps my favorite single quote about the Clinton vs. Obama race I've heard:

“I really almost feel sorry for Mrs. Clinton. She’s trying to conduct a job interview, and Obama’s on a date.”

That's Richard Land, from the Southern Baptists Convention, in an interview with NPR.

[Frankie's Market]

Re: The Hillary Rodham Clinton Watch

gotcha.



the fact is obama wasn't in the senate when the vote to go to war in iraq came down. he wasn't privy to the same info HRC or anyone else who was in the senate at the time was, so any statement about how he would or would not have voted is speculation.

Gotcha about what? When did I ever say that Obama was in the Senate when the vote was taken to go to war in Iraq? The answer: Never. And when did I ever speculate about how Obama would have voted? Once again, the answer is never.

But you go ahead and look through all my postings if you want, if you have the time to burn.

All I said was that Clinton voted to authorize the President to take military action in Iraq, which she did in 2002. That's a fact. You can type as many posts as you want on this topic. But Hillary's vote on Public Law 107-243 can't and won't be changed.

What Obama would have done, no one knows for sure. All I know for sure is that Clinton had the opportunity to take a vote on it. And she made what, IMHO, was the wrong decision. And for that, I'm not voting for her. Whether you see that as being fair or not is irrelevant to me. It's my vote.

I will add this, though. Even with access to the same information, there were 23 Senators (like Hawaii's very own Akaka and Inouye) who were akamai enough to vote against it. Too bad the same can't be said about Hillary.

the fact is obama could have voted clearly affirmatively or clearly negatively on certain women's reproductive rights issues but he voted "present" instead. some can argue that it was a strategic decision to try to bring opponents around. but we don't know for sure. that's speculation.

the fact is obama claims to have "pressed the wrong button" when voting on 6 issues that included $2 million for a Chicago child welfare office's funding (he voted with repubs against). some can choose to believe he truly, accidentally, pressed the wrong button. but that would be speculation.

waitwaitwait...you crow about how hillary mispronounced "medvedev" but yet your guy pressed the wrong button half a dozen times (and note--the buttons from which he had to choose were three different colors!)...and this is a guy who might eventually have access to THE button??!!!

but i digress.

Yep, I'll say. Digressed into stuff that won't figure into how I vote. But if it's important to you, then so be it.

my point is, where's your crystal ball, homey? cause you bludgeon the rest of us with your insistence that you base everything on facts (big, bold, italic ones, no less--"incontrivertible" or whatever) while anyone who disagrees with you is merely speculating.

I merely point out what I see. If anyone tries to pass off their speculation as fact, I can and will point it out. Sorry if that bothers you, but that's life in a public forum. This is not anyone's private blog. Disagreement and diversity of opinion is inevitable. Hopefully though, we can discuss our differences in positions without taking it personally.

[Vanguard]

Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 2

Rick Santorum critiques Barack Obama

Picture of Rick Santorum (perfectly safe for work)

[Menehune Man]

Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 2

Okay! I've figured out my "Dream Ticket".

C'mon... how 'bout Captain Kirk and Spock?
They always get out of the jam.

My buddy gave me this bumper sticker today.
It's goin' on the moped. HaHa!

[Vanguard]

Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 2

Clinton Aides threaten lawsuit over Texas caucuses

Excuse after excuse, it's never Hillary's fault

Why Is Obama's Middle Name Taboo?

Okay! I've figured out my "Dream Ticket".

C'mon... how 'bout Captain Kirk and Spock?
They always get out of the jam.

My buddy gave me this bumper sticker today.
It's goin' on the moped. HaHa!

General Zod

[glossyp]

Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 2

Why Is Obama's Middle Name Taboo?

I've been thinking about this one because I made the conscious decision to exclude his middle initial when posting about him here - I thought it might be better than using just "BO" and then this brouhaha about his middle name came up and I thought maybe it's better to just not go there. Now his wife is in on the act claiming that his middle name is the "ultimate fear bomb". I think it's time to embrace the name and use it freely in an effort to make everyone comfortable with it and not fearful. So, from now on I will refer to Obama as BHO rather than BO.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 2

Why Is Obama's Middle Name Taboo?

Addressed on NPR's "All Things Considered" this week (and a followup).

[Vanguard]

Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 2

Clinton goes "Nuclear", uses fear factor in latest commercial (article has Obama campaign response)

“Now one of Clinton’s laws of politics is this: If one candidate’s trying to scare you and the other one’s trying to get you to think, if one candidate’s appealing to your fears and the other one’s appealing to your hopes, you better vote for the person who wants you to think and hope.”

-- Bill Clinton, 2004

[glossyp]

Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 2

Clinton goes "Nuclear", uses fear factor in latest commercial (article has Obama campaign response)

“Now one of Clinton’s laws of politics is this: If one candidate’s trying to scare you and the other one’s trying to get you to think, if one candidate’s appealing to your fears and the other one’s appealing to your hopes, you better vote for the person who wants you to think and hope.”

-- Bill Clinton, 2004

I think it's a fair question, it's something I think about as I look at the candidates. I don't consider a candidate asking who I want running the country in the event of a world crisis, terrorist attack, etc. inappropriate or fear mongering. HRC asking the question may be mildly amusing from my point of view, but describing the ad as "going nuclear" is a bit over the top. All I can say is that BHO better get used to being challenged as the campaign moves from the "dating phase" (the quote PZ posted above is so apt) to serious courtship and as his policies become more well known.